Nitrogen Cycling in the Coral Holobiont

[Timfish]

An interesting and informative video looking at how nitrogen is used in the coral holobiont

 

 

[sublunary]

Really interesting, thank you for sharing!

[Subsea]

Microbial Overlords.  Quorum sensing bacteria.  I love it.  Let’s crank it to and talk about biofilm on macro algae surfaces.

 

https://academic.oup.com/femsec/article/88/2/213/46762

The seaweed surface provides a suitable substratum for the settlement of microorgansims and also secretes various organic substances that function as nutrients for multiplication of bacteria and the formation of microbial biofilms (Steinberg et al., 2002; Staufenberger et al., 2008; Singh, 2013). Microbial communities living on the seaweed surface are highly complex, dynamic and consist of a consortium of microorganisms including bacteria, fungi, diatoms, protozoa, spores and larvae of marine invertebrates (Lachnit et al., 2009, 2011; Goecke et al., 2010; Burke et al., 2011a, b). Among them, bacteria are ubiquitous and occur either on the seaweed surface or in the cytosol of living host cells (Herbaspirillum sp. in Caulerpa taxifolia) and determine different stages of the life cycle of eukaryotic organisms including macroalgae (Delbridge et al., 2004; Burke et al., 2011a; Singh et al., 2011a, b, c). Quorum sensing (QS) signalling molecules produced by Gram-negative bacterial strains determine zoospores settlement in Ulva species (Joint et al., 2002) and spores liberation in Acrochaetium (Weinberger et al., 2007) and Gracilaria species (Singh, 2013). Thallusin, a bacterial metabolite, and nitrogen-fixing bacteria associated with seaweeds have also been found to be responsible for induction of morphogenesis and growth in marine macroalgae, respectively (Chisholm et al., 1996; Matsuo et al., 2005; Singh et al., 2011b). Macroalgae (as a host), also known to be ecosystem engineers, play critical roles in structuring of intertidal communities (Jones et al., 1994). Some water-soluble monosaccharides such as rhamnose, xylose, glucose, mannose and galactose are part of algal polysaccharides that constitute part of the cell wall (Popper et al., 2011) and the rest storage material (Lahaye & Axelos, 1993; Michel et al., 2010a, b). These algal polysaccharides are a potential source of carbon and energy for numerous marine bacteria (Hehemann et al., 2012) that produce specific molecules, which in turn facilitate seaweed–bacterial associations (Steinberg et al., 2002; Lachnit et al., 2013). Therefore, these interactions between seaweeds and bacteria have fascinated and attracted the attention of many researchers worldwide.

 

Patrick says, “Laissez les bonne temps roulee”.
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[Subsea]

On 12/2/2020 at 9:51 AM, Timfish said:

An interesting and informative video looking at how nitrogen is used in the coral holobiont

 

 

Tim,

Nature  never ceases to amaze me with its very efficient use of energy and back up biochemistry to take up nutrients by multiple pathways when required.  Consider that facultative bacteria in oxygen rich environment will consume nitrite but when oxygen limited use more energy to consume oxygen molecule by breaking down nitrate and releasing free nitrogen gas.

[farkwar]

I dunno

 

This is saying that nitrogen fixing bacteria are with in coral. And fix nitrogen when the reef has no nutrients

 

And that excess nutrients on the reef are bleaching corals

 

Overfishing is causing bleaching of reef corals

 

Maybe I need to watch it again

 

 

 

I don't buy this

[mcarroll]

An excelent article that I started posting into the hobby back in 2017.  Good find on the associated video @Timfish – never seen that before!!!

 

I've got a few other good articles saved on the topic of the coral holobiont if you click here: https://reefsuccess.com/?s=holo

 

In terms of coral health, microbialization is (as far as I know) considered as the root cause/overarching concept of coral disease these days.  I've got some good ones on this topic as well. In particular: Global microbialization of coral reefs

 

You might want to look up other work by the same author as well:  https://reefsuccess.com/?s=rohwer

 

3 hours ago, farkwar said:

This is saying that nitrogen fixing bacteria are with in coral. And fix nitrogen when the reef has no nutrients

I started posting this one back in 2018 that more or less addresses this:  The Assimilation of Diazotroph-Derived Nitrogen by Scleractinian Corals Depends on Their Metabolic Status 

 

3 hours ago, farkwar said:

And that excess nutrients on the reef are bleaching corals

Wild reefs are based on low, but steadily available phosphate sources.  In that scenario, it doesn't take a large N input to throw off the corals balance.

 

The balance being "off" results in this, which I've also been posting into the hobby since 2018:  Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

 

Unless the source of that excess nutrient input is permanent human habitation, the coral ecosystem is usually good at recovering from these kinds of disturbances and will recover from bleaching.

 

3 hours ago, farkwar said:

Overfishing is causing bleaching of reef corals

Overfishing's impact is on algae control...either directly or indirectly.  I'm sure that does have some effect on bleaching events...possibly just due to the resultant microbialization.

 

🤷‍♂️

[farkwar]

We don't eat reef fish

 

Using a drift-net-catch-all hypothesis to shame humans to do something.  Is not helpful. It creates plausible and intuitive skepticism

 

Earth First Spotted Owl Acid Rain type 'ecology' had consequences. Like yearly West Coast Wildfires that are so large they can't be contained until they burn themselves out

 

When is a Spotted Owl not a Spotted Owl?

 

When it is a Red Herring

[mcarroll]

Rhetoric aside, I guess that your position is that commercial fishing has no impact on reefs or reef-adjacent fish?  Hm.  I don't know, just being conservative in my thinking that sounds too good to be true.  I certainly wish and hope that it is true, but...

 

How much do you know about commercial fishing?  I'd be curious to see evidence...but that will be difficult since the full extent of reef herbivory isn't that well understood.  

 

Things like Bat Fish figure into the herbivory equation.  

 

They call them a "sleeping functional group" in some articles.  Fish that you probably don't expect to see there since they aren't particularly known as herbivores....but they still play a crucial role.

 

Check out:  Sleeping functional group drives coral-reef recovery. (Looks like the whole article is actually posted.)

 

 

[farkwar]

[Timfish]

15 hours ago, farkwar said:

I dunno

 

This is saying that nitrogen fixing bacteria are with in coral. And fix nitrogen when the reef has no nutrients

 

And that excess nutrients on the reef are bleaching corals

 

Overfishing is causing bleaching of reef corals

 

Maybe I need to watch it again

 

 

 

I don't buy this

 

"I dunno . . ."  It's not clear to me if you're responding to Subsea's comment or to the video .  If you are responding to Subsea's comment about faculative bacteria I read it as an example of natures complexity that fascinates him, not a comment on the video content itself.

[farkwar]

My comments are only in regard to the video

[Timfish]

11 hours ago, farkwar said:

We don't eat reef fish . . .

 

Not sure where you got this idea because the decline of reefs can be directly tied to the over fishing of reef preditors and the large herbivores like parrotfish.  For an introduction to the roles of microbes, fish, corals and algae on reefs I would suggest you get Forest Rohwer's "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas"

[Timfish]

15 minutes ago, farkwar said:

My comments are only in regard to the video

Just look at the picture you posted.  Microbes within the coral holobiont convert N2 or nitrogen gas that's dissolved in the water from the atmosphere into nitrogen compuonds the coral can use.   Beside Rohwer's book Check out the links Mcarrol posted.   Here's another link also that directly demonstrates the problem with too much nitrogen Sugar Enrichment

[farkwar]

19 minutes ago, Timfish said:

Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas

Thanks for that

 

Checked out his lecture on YouTube

 

Makes a lot more sense than the OP video

 

 

[Timfish]

12 hours ago, mcarroll said:

An excelent article that I started posting into the hobby back in 2017.  Good find on the associated video @Timfish – never seen that before!!! . . .

 

🤷‍♂️

Thank you!  Looks like great minds think alike! :D

[farkwar]

30 minutes ago, Timfish said:

within

The doc hows the microbes and viruses are on the surface of the coral.  Not within.  Doc even says the microbes are not even touching the coral.

 

Doc's hypotheses also is, not commercial overfishing fishing as in 'Chicken of the Sea' fishing.

 

But local, as in people living next to the reef. Killing fish on the reef, living next to the reef, pissing and shitting into the reef

 

Both very very much more plausible than the OP video. I can buy this.

 

 

[Timfish]

14 minutes ago, farkwar said:

Thanks for that

 

Checked out his lecture on YouTube

 

Makes a lot more sense than the OP video

 

 

 

I've been posting Rohwer's video for quite awhile.  His book goes into more detail and has an excellent reffernce list and I would encourage you to read it.  The video i posted goes into more detail on what's actually happening in the coral holobiont with nitrogen and what seems to me an obvious takeaway dosing nitrogen may not tbe a good thing in our aquariums.  What I don't understand is if you have watched Rohwer's video you can say in your above post "we don't eat reef fish" when Rohwer clearly points out over fishing on reefs ties directly to coral disease. 

[farkwar]

5 minutes ago, Timfish said:

Rohwer clearly points out over fishing on reefs ties directly to coral disease. 

He is not pointing at me

 

Let me clarify, I don't eat reef fish

[farkwar]

37 minutes ago, Timfish said:

Just look at the picture you posted.  Microbes within the coral holobiont convert N2 or nitrogen gas that's dissolved in the water from the atmosphere into nitrogen compuonds the coral can use.   Beside Rohwer's book Check out the links Mcarrol posted.   Here's another link also that directly demonstrates the problem with too much nitrogen Sugar Enrichment

This will take me a few minutes to think about.

 

N2 is in excess always in air. 78% of air is N2

 

How does N2 gas become in excess in sea water?

 

We already know that excess sugar, ie carbon dosing, increases bacterial populations. How is this alone not a problem?

 

Nitrogen fixing is turning N2 into NH3.  Ammonia and carbonic acid(from CO2) react to form ammonium carbonate.

 

Bah, this is going to take some time to figure out

[Timfish]

20 minutes ago, farkwar said:

The doc hows the microbes and viruses are on the surface of the coral.  Not within.

 

Doc's hypotheses also is, not commercial overfishing fishing as in 'Chicken of the Sea' fishing.

 

But local, as in people living next to the reef. Killing fish on the reef, living next to the reef, pissing and shitting into the reef

 

Both very very much more plausible than the OP video. I can buy this.

 

 

 

Clearly you have not read anything about the coral's holobiont and the function of the coral's mucus layer.   The coral's mucus layer is a core part of a coral's immune system and helps moderate less than ideal condition in it's environment helping to creat a surface boundery layer that has distinctly different properties than the surounding water.   Go read Mcarrol's links then skim through these:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4989324/

 

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmars.2017.00009/full

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25278474/

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/ismej20169

 

 

[Timfish]

25 minutes ago, farkwar said:

He is not pointing at me

 

Let me clarify, I don't eat reef fish

 You said "we don't eat reef fish" now you're saying you meant "I don't eat reef fish".  Personally I think you need to work at elucidating what you actually mean.

[farkwar]

1 minute ago, Timfish said:

 You said "we don't eat reef fish" now you're saying you meant "I don't eat reef fish".  Personally I think you need to work at elucidating what you actually mean.

There is a big difference between big huge boats drift netting tuna. That I eat

 

And barefoot little brown people with flat noses spear fishing fish on the reef, that they eat

 

BIG BIG difference

 

Your first video implied the first case

[farkwar]

18 minutes ago, Timfish said:

Clearly you have not read anything about the coral's holobiont and the function of the coral's mucus layer.  

Clearly, within, As in, inside the coral tissue

 

Is completely different than on the surface of the boundary layer

 

Your video implies, if not outright states, that these bacteria are within the coral animal and coral tissue.

 

That was completely implausible to me

 

Forgive me for being skeptical

 

I have a learning disorder, an affective learning disorder.

 

 

[Timfish]

Farkwar, again I encourage you to read Rohwer's book.  Unfortunately he gives several well documented examples of reefs that have been destroyed by unregulated fishing. 

[farkwar]

2 minutes ago, Timfish said:

Farkwar, again I encourage you to read Rohwer's book.  Unfortunately he gives several well documented examples of reefs that have been destroyed by unregulated fishing. 

Unregulated fishing?

 

That to me, right off the bat, sounds like China's fishing

 

I'll order the damn book.