Kimber's Squishy Tank - 2 years later...

[debbeach13]

I have never really battled dino's so I can't help there. What if you take the sand out of the 20 and either replace or go bare bottom?

[kimberbee]

33 minutes ago, debbeach13 said:

I have never really battled dino's so I can't help there. What if you take the sand out of the 20 and either replace or go bare bottom?

That's an option that I've considered. Supposedly removing sand takes away the place where dinos show up most. Luckily I don't have the snotty kind that hangs on rocks and corals, otherwise barebottom wouldn't really help much. 

 

I also don't really have the funds to replace/add too much more coral, so downsizing would help make the tank look more full. That's why I'm toying with that idea too. 

 

The pandemic has really effected my relationship with the hobby. Money is tighter, shipping is more risky, and getting to an LFS is difficult. My priorities and hobbies have been shifting away from reefing. 

[natalia_la_loca]

Your frustration reminds me a lot of how I was feeling when my Nuvo 8 got flatworm and vermetid snail infestations. It was just incredibly disheartening and I got out of the hobby temporarily. Coming back smaller worked great for me and I could totally see wanting to downsize.

 

I know it’s another additive, but there are a bunch of reviews on the Algaebarn site saying their Ocean Magik phyto blend killed dinos. It has 4 live phyto strains. There are also cheaper options in case the price + shipping for Algaebarn is too much. I haven’t used it myself, but the reviews seem really good. Just wanted to put that out there.

[kimberbee]

Here we go... the lights are on now.

 

 

The heads of the hammer stay mostly closed up like this all day/night long. This is the most fluffy they get, and throught the day random heads will close up even more, and then open back up a little. 

 

Here's a closeup:

 

So, you can see just how much the flesh has retracted. There's barely anything left of the front facing polyp. 😣

 

I've still been testing/dosing regularly, so I'm convinced it's a trace element issue. If I do more water changes, the dinos get worse... if I only dose, the coral will get worse. Feels like a lose-lose. 

[TatorTaco]

 

4 hours ago, kimberbee said:

I am considering tossing the hammer corals and downsizing this tank to the IM10 that I have in storage. I'd add a thin layer of new sand and just keep the easy, soft corals already in the tank (palys, sinularia, toadstool, and mushrooms). I could add something simple like Kenya tree, or even xenia to fill things out a little if I wanted. 

 

It's clear I don't have the time or money to throw at this tank to rid it from dinos completely. 

 

🤔

Sorry to hear you're at your wit's end with the dinos.  I'm also considering downsizing to a smaller tank so it'd look more full and sticking with easier corals.  

 

3 hours ago, kimberbee said:

The pandemic has really effected my relationship with the hobby. Money is tighter, shipping is more risky, and getting to an LFS is difficult. My priorities and hobbies have been shifting away from reefing. 

What other hobbies have you been focusing on outside of reefing?  I heard that dart frogs are a common distraction from saltwater hobbyist and I've kicked that idea around a bit.  

[SeaFurn]

I feel you. I’ve been battling dinos in my 45 with all the RFAs for over 6 months now. I’m so defeated. The frogspawn and hammer I have in the tank look just like yours. 
I’ve tried everything in the book-UV, cranking up the nutrients, no water changes, blackouts, phyto, pods, multiple kinds of bacteria, vibrant, waste away...on and on. 

Mines been the snotty kind. I’ve now sucked out most of the sand. They grow back on the bare bottom glass. It’s maddening. Surprisingly it’s not killed any RFAs but the psammocora that was rehabbing in the tank is now about a gonner. 
I’m in the process of rebooting the whole thing. Even that is a bit overwhelming.

Just do what makes you happy! 
Your other hobbies are great too! 
 

[kimberbee]

3 minutes ago, TatorTaco said:

 

Sorry to hear you're at your wit's end with the dinos.  I'm also considering downsizing to a smaller tank so it'd look more full and sticking with easier corals.  

 

What other hobbies have you been focusing on outside of reefing?  I heard that dart frogs are a common distraction from saltwater hobbyist and I've kicked that idea around a bit.  

I can see that I have tons of copepods in my tank, so starting again in a sterile tank means I'd lose a lot of those little guys.

 

I definitely don't need more pets to take care of 😅, though dart frogs (and other small pets) are super cool! 

 

I've been doing a lot of gardening, and started all of my veggies from seed this winter. It's been a lot of fun and the benefit is, that if something doesn't do well, the garden starts over from scratch next year anyway. 

[kimberbee]

3 minutes ago, SeaFurn said:

They grow back on the bare bottom glass. It’s maddening.

Oof. Well, we're in the same awful boat... 

 

I worry that if left too long, I'll end up with the snotty kind. I have it in both my tanks, but only my duncan (rip) and these hammers seem effected. The other tank's sandbed looks 10x worse, but the RFAs and gorgonians don't seem to be bothered. I lost one of my plate corals, but the other is still very happy, so I have a feeling the dead one was just old/sick and it didn't die from dinos. 

 

Ughhh... soooo frustrating!!

[kimberbee]

On 4/15/2021 at 2:46 PM, SeaFurn said:

I’m in the process of rebooting the whole thing.

Have you detailed your plan anywhere? 

 

I'm trying to figure what I wanna do that's worth all the effort. If I swap to a different tank, I loose beneficial bacteria/sponges that are on the glass/back chambers, plus I'd assume the dinos are gonna hike over on the rock. If I simply suck out the sand and go bb, the dinos haven't really gone away, they just don't have a visible place to congregate, and I loose sand as filter assistance... 

[SeaFurn]

2 hours ago, kimberbee said:

Have you detailed your plan anywhere? 

It’s only on paper. I never started a tank journal for the 45 but I probably should have in hind sight. I’ll be glad to share it with you some way if you’re interested. It’s so much work and almost overwhelming. My wife was a little exasperated last weekend when she realized it was going to take weeks - and that I have 4 tanks running right now! 

As far as the reboot and dinos go, I’m not fooling myself that they won’t transfer over in some way, but I can’t go on with it the way it is so I’ll take that chance. I figure this reboot will at least disrupt whatever equilibrium currently exists that supports their existence and they won’t come back right away. 
On top of that, the rocks and sand have become infested with mermaids cup and they need to replaced. I actually think that started the chain reaction causing the tank to get drained of nutrients and then that led to the dinos. Oh, and I was running the skimmer too much, and, of course, all the baby RFAs in the sand made it difficult to vacuum the sand and that was a perfect situation for the mermaids cup.
It’s a mess. I gotta start over if I’m going to enjoy it again. But, I’m also going to change up how I do some things going forward to hopefully keep the dinos at bay. 
Let me know if I can help you think it through in any way. 

 

[kimberbee]

On 4/16/2021 at 10:19 PM, SeaFurn said:

Let me know if I can help you think it through in any way. 

I forgot about the mermaid's cup infestation too. 

 

My hammer has finally started bailing out polyps over the weekend. There's 3 shriveled up, chilling on the sandbed now. I'm not sure what I should do. On the one hand, I don't want them floating into my happy corals and killing them... On the other hand, I hate putting a LIVING THING in the trash. 😖

 

I'm on the fence about what I should do next cause there's too many options. I think it's Analysis Paralysis time. 

 

I could take out the sand, and replace or run bare bottom. I could transfer to a different tank in one day, or go through a full new cycle with some dry rock. Or I could do nothing... 

 

😅😂😭

[kimberbee]

Hey @Clown79, I've been dealing with dinos a long time (over a year, but actively treating for ~5 months) and had a thought that maybe you could weigh in on. Anyone else feel free to give an opinion, too. 

 

I've moved and swapped the tanks around a few times, but most of my corals, rock, sand, fish have been with me ("established") for over 4 years. I'm sure when I move/swap I lose some beneficial bacteria, but it's not like starting a cycle over. 

 

I have the IM 20 with 2 clownfish, and the IM25 has one clownfish. Do you think having large tanks with a low population of fish contributes to increased dinos? I try to feed heavy 3x/wk (3-4 hefty pinches of pellets) knowing that I want some food left over to decompose and raise nitrates. 

 

I'm considering other options (like re-starting completely as much as I can) because what I'm doing isn't working. 

[SeaFurn]

3 hours ago, kimberbee said:

My hammer has finally started bailing out polyps over the weekend. There's 3 shriveled up, chilling on the sandbed now. I'm not sure what I should do. On the one hand, I don't want them floating into my happy corals and killing them... On the other hand, I hate putting a LIVING THING in the trash. 😖

Mine did that recently. I put in the crevice of some rubble and it’s actually still doing really well! 

 

3 hours ago, kimberbee said:

I'm on the fence about what I should do next cause there's too many options.

If I didn’t have the mermaids cup growing all over the rocks I probably would have just swapped out the sand. I think doing anything will help.  Maybe just replace all your sand, keep the rocks, and have a plan for keeping the nutrients up. But hey - I’m probably the LAST person you should be taking advice from! 
Looking forward to reading what Clown recommends. 

[Clown79]

3 hours ago, kimberbee said:

Hey @Clown79, I've been dealing with dinos a long time (over a year, but actively treating for ~5 months) and had a thought that maybe you could weigh in on. Anyone else feel free to give an opinion, too. 

 

I've moved and swapped the tanks around a few times, but most of my corals, rock, sand, fish have been with me ("established") for over 4 years. I'm sure when I move/swap I lose some beneficial bacteria, but it's not like starting a cycle over. 

 

I have the IM 20 with 2 clownfish, and the IM25 has one clownfish. Do you think having large tanks with a low population of fish contributes to increased dinos? I try to feed heavy 3x/wk (3-4 hefty pinches of pellets) knowing that I want some food left over to decompose and raise nitrates. 

 

I'm considering other options (like re-starting completely as much as I can) because what I'm doing isn't working. 

Restarting won't change much, they will transfer to the new tank with any livestock you add back into the tank.

 

Phosohates are a key player with dino's. They need to be higher than 0.03

 

My dino didn't start going away until phos was at 0.08 and they were gone after it got higher than 0.10

 

I documented everything i did in my lagoon thread. Its far more detailed with my process.

 

The main thing that helped was 

 

No waterchanges

 

Seeding my tank with a lot of pods

 

Dosing phyto plankton to feed the pods and bonus it raised my phos

 

Sucking the dinos out at end of day, filtering that water through a filter sock and floss, returning the water back to tank

 

Changing carbon weekly(using smaller quantities)

 

Nitrates were between 2-5ppm

 

I fed reef roids 2 times a week and frozen foods

 

Reduced photo period

[kimberbee]

18 minutes ago, SeaFurn said:

Mine did that recently. I put in the crevice of some rubble and it’s actually still doing really well! 

That looks much better than my hammer does. Your's still seems like it has color, and structure. Mine are dull, and shriveled... if that makes any sense.

[kimberbee]

27 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

Restarting won't change much, they will transfer to the new tank...

I guess my thinking was that if I can "restart" with a sterile tank/equipment/sand, and only use a small piece of LR from my current tank, that I can start over with a tank that's in balance, almost as if I've started a whole new cycle. I know dinos will always be present, but I've been dosing phosphates for going on 5 months, and the dinos haven't gone away. Phos continues to roller coaster up and down despite the dosing. I would basically treat my current tank like a store and only transfer one or two things over at a time, giving the tank time to stay balanced between additions... just like if it were new.

 

I appreciate your input, Clown. I know I called you into a thread with an issue that's been going on a while, but your general thoughts are helpful.

 

[Clown79]

2 hours ago, kimberbee said:

I guess my thinking was that if I can "restart" with a sterile tank/equipment/sand, and only use a small piece of LR from my current tank, that I can start over with a tank that's in balance, almost as if I've started a whole new cycle. I know dinos will always be present, but I've been dosing phosphates for going on 5 months, and the dinos haven't gone away. Phos continues to roller coaster up and down despite the dosing. I would basically treat my current tank like a store and only transfer one or two things over at a time, giving the tank time to stay balanced between additions... just like if it were new.

 

I appreciate your input, Clown. I know I called you into a thread with an issue that's been going on a while, but your general thoughts are helpful.

 

I ended spreading dino's to 2 other tanks and 1 was with a tiny amount of liverock,the pther was with 1 frag.

 

A new system is even more susceptible to dino as there is little to out compete it.

 

Pods are its number 1 competitor. You need to add a lot and particularly tisbe, feeding them phyto not only helps them continue producing but it keeps phos stable.

 

I tried dosing nitrates, it was a losing battle of up and down constantly.

 

If you are still doing waterchanges, i would suggest ending those until the dino is gone or minimal under control.

 

My 5g tank had almost no dino and in 1 small waterchange they were back with a vengeance. Dino loves new water.

[kimberbee]

I decided I'm going to go ahead with moving everything into the IM10 that I have stored in the basement. 🤷‍♀️

 

I've spent as much on additives and other treatments as I'm willing to, and at this point I don't plan on replacing lost coral. I could leave everything as-is, keep dosing, and likely things would turn around eventually. It's also possible that my remaining corals continue to die off while I'm busy treating dinos. But either way, the tank looks awful, orange, and bare. 

 

I have everything I need to do a restart in a different tank, so the only thing it will cost is my time. I do need to purchase a stand (Ikea Kallax) but I had planned to get one anyway for some extra desk organization. 

 

I've cleared some room in the office already, and probably later today I'll bring the tank up so I can get it leak tested this weekend. 

 

[debbeach13]

I bet you feel better all ready just from having a plan. Cute table. Good luck with the transfer. 

[kimberbee]

35 minutes ago, debbeach13 said:

I bet you feel better all ready just from having a plan. Cute table. Good luck with the transfer. 

Thanks! The table is just there cause I have nowhere else to put it for the moment. Unfortunately, it's not sturdy enough for a tank!!

[thecoralbeauty]

i'm so sorry- this is so frustrating to deal with, but a restart is something to be hopeful for! Excited to see how it goes.

[debbeach13]

1 hour ago, kimberbee said:

it's not sturdy enough for a tank!!

I was thinking that also just thought it was cute. I did read this

 

2 hours ago, kimberbee said:

I do need to purchase a stand (Ikea Kallax)

and have seen this cabinet used by others. 

[kimberbee]

Put together the stand last night.

 

 

Will probably leak test this weekend.

[kimberbee]

The tank is currently leak testing in the bathtub. I don't expect there to be any leaks, but it has been in the basement for the past 2 years, so better safe than sorry. 

 

I wiped it clean of dust and discovered the tank lid was a bit crusty and brittle with age. The netting had sagged and the spline crumbled in spots when I tried to take it apart to give it a good cleaning. If anyone has suggestions on who is making lids, it would be a help. I'd like something nicer than diy-ing it, but the lids I'm finding are expensive (*coughartfullyacrylliccough*). $100 is what I spent on the IM10. I'm better off just buying a new IM10 which would come with a new lid and upgraded pump...

 

I'm also looking into a new fish for the tank. I figure right after cycling the tank would be a great opportunity to QT a fish without having to set up a whole separate QT system. A small wrasse or goby are what I'm considering. Suggestions on what would do nicely with two b&w clownfish are appreciated.

[spectra]

If it was me just use the old frame and get some new rubber spline and some netting. If you cant find any I may have some left over in the garage.......... I know I have a giant piece of netting still but not sure on the spline.......