FLNanoReefer Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 I have recently started a new 25 gallon tank. It have added 24 lbs of CaribSea LifeRock and 20 lbs of Caribsea Arag-Alive Special Grade Reef Sand. Upon the recommendation of my LFS, I also added a bacteria supplement called FritzZyme 9 Saltwater. Does anyone have experience cycling their tank with this product? Do I need to dose ammonia to get the cycle going? Any recommendations or input is greatly appreciated! Quote Link to comment
ReefGoat Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 So per the fritz website. They intend this product to be used while cycling with fish (wouldn't recommend). They state that the fish will provide the ammonia source. I'm only familiar with the dr tims process of cycling with bacteria and ammonia. It could be the same as this product but I'm not sure. https://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/fishless-cycling/ You may be able to replicate the dr tims regimen. With the bacteria you already have (fritz). But I'm not sure on this as I've only used dr tims. Quote Link to comment
ReefGoat Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 To answer your question in short though. Yes you will need an ammonia source. Fritz website states this. Quote Link to comment
FLNanoReefer Posted November 18, 2020 Author Share Posted November 18, 2020 7 minutes ago, ReefGoat said: To answer your question in short though. Yes you will need an ammonia source. Fritz website states this. Thanks. That's what I thought after doing some reading today. I know most people add the ammonia AND then the bacteria supplements. But should I be concerned that I already added the bacteria? Or should they still be "alive" when I add ammonia? Quote Link to comment
mcarroll Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 I would recommend following the directions to a tee or using a different product that works like you want it to. It sounds like this is the same formula as Marineland's BioSpira, which I think is the same as Dr Tims. (I think Dr Tim may have been with Marineland at one point....I forget the exact story, but they somehow they are/were connected.) I would not recommend the ammonia method personally, but it can obviously work. The only point I see to doing anything more than the Natural Method (30-40 days of mostly doing nothing) is if you're really in a hurry to get the fish in the tank. That should be a pretty unusual condition, and definitely isn't the optimal way to stock a reef tank. As long as you've read enough to understand the nitrogen cycle and natural method (if not, you should do so now) then you had your all the assurance you needed by using the Aragalive, which is pre-seeded with bacteria. Instead of jamming all the fish in first, you start with the smallest organisms and work your way up, slowly building the ammonia inputs only as fast as the bacteria can multiply....so there's no ammonia spike. This is a great book (also in digital), if you don't have one that covers the topic: Marine Aquarium Handbook Beginner to Breeder It doesn't directly apply, but here's a good video of Martin Moe. Quote Link to comment
farkwar Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 They still have that book in print Pretty cover Mine is like a dull blue, iirc. Personally, I liked the Theil books better 1 Quote Link to comment
FLNanoReefer Posted November 19, 2020 Author Share Posted November 19, 2020 Thanks for all of the input. I was a bit worried there isn’t enough “live” bacteria in the rock and sand, but I will take your advice and wait it out from now on. Does anyone have an idea of about how long my cycle should take? 1 Quote Link to comment
banasophia Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 I just answered a similar question for someone else recently and it’s late so bear with me, I’m gonna post my other reply in here. I use Caribsea Liferock and live sand in my tanks, and I use BioSpira as my primary beneficial bacteria source, but Fritz has a good reputation as well. If it was me I would add one other source as backup: Some people can use a good beneficial bacteria product and get lucky and be successful with a fast start, adding fish right away per the manufacturer instructions, but I help tons of new hobbyists so I also see a fair share of people that have a very difficult start in the hobby by trying to add fish too soon. We have a huge responsibility keeping our tanks, and it’s good to start things off right. I never recommend adding fish on day 1. But... I do use beneficial bacteria products and add my first 1-2 small fish at the one week point though, and the fish waste and feeding provides the ammonia source for the beneficial bacteria I have added. This can be done nowadays with the good beneficial bacteria products available because we are adding cultured bacteria to our tanks of the right types to process ammonia -> nitrite -> nitrate. We used to have to wait for colonies of these bacteria to grow to the right size in our tanks, now we can add them when we get the tank wet. This all hinges though on getting a reliable beneficial bacteria product with the right types of bacteria. I add the bacteria when I first get the tank wet, but I do not add fish that day because there are just too many things that can go awry during the first week that you need to iron out with a new system... you need to make sure equipment is working (pump, powerhead, lights, heater, thermometer), confirm there are no leaks, make sure salinity and water level and temp stay stable, do an initial set of parameters (salinity/pH/ammonia/nitrite/nitrate) to be sure everything is as expected before introducing your fish. I make sure to use at least 2 different reputable brands of beneficial bacteria with good consistent reviews (BioSpira , NutriSeawater, also live sand). I use at least 2 because some are sensitive to temperature extremes during shipping/storage so I want back up in case one is not good. I use a seachem ammonia badge in my tanks to detect an unexpected ammonia spike, and I also add a media bag with seachem matrix in the back of each tank for extra surface area for the beneficial bacteria in addition to my rockscape because I always like to have an extra strong biological filter in my tanks. All that being said, there are a lot of variables that impact people’s cycle such as dry rock vs live rock... lots of methods can work successfully and we most importantly want to be sure to take the best care we can of our livestock. Quote Link to comment
mcarroll Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 3 hours ago, FLNanoReefer said: I was a bit worried there isn’t enough “live” bacteria in the rock and sand, but I will take your advice and wait it out from now on. Does anyone have an idea of about how long my cycle should take? Depends on how you are proceeding....if you do some version of the slow/small method I described briefly, it'll take the 30-40 days, maybe less. The upside is that you have something to do/add every week or every few weeks assuming all goes smoothly. It's not sitting around doing nothing for 30-40 days with an empty tank. 😉 12 hours ago, mcarroll said: Natural Method (30-40 days No more than that unless something is wrong. Sometimes faster, such as when you have a seeded media. Sometimes the seeding just assures that you get the 30-40 days with a healthy start. As the saying goes, Nothing Good Happens Fast In A Reef Tank. Relax into the pace of nature™. 🙂 Quote Link to comment
farkwar Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 I was just thinking It's not really a cycle It's all very linear. Like a production line Quote Link to comment
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