Chipp's 5 Gallon ADA Mini M: Fake Sump

[chippwalters]

Hey gang,

 

Been quite a few years since I've posted. I needed the room and gave away my tank and equipment to a good friend in the business: Timfish. He's probably the most savvy saltwater guy I know. He's been taking care of commercial and home tanks for many years-- and has several tanks well over 20 years old, with animals that age as well.

 

We've stayed in touch throughout my saltwater drought. I recently have had to endure some health challenges, and I think it's the right time to get back up on that horse. So, I do have experience with smaller saltwater tanks and have 3 thread here on this forum about them-- the biggest being a 17 gallon ADA tank.

 

My goal for this build is very straightforward:

Keep things as simple as possible maintence-wise.

 

After thinking about different ways to do this, I've decided on what I hope to be an elegant solution. I typically get 5 gallon polyethylene containers filled with Saltwater from my LFS. It's always been easier than mixing my own. Here's my plan. I'm going to use one of the 5 gallon containers as a continuous water feed, like a sump, but with nothing in it other than the overflow line, a return pump line and a heater. I'll put another heater in the second 5 gallon container to keep it at the right temperature and I'll switch them out each week. So, that will be something like a 60% water change per week, which should keep me from having to use any filter media. The swap will be easy. Turn off the DC return pump (which is external), remove the overflow and return lines and switch the containers. Add back in the overflow and return lines from the pump. That's it.

 

I'll of course clean the glass and maybe every now and then siphon the bottom, but that should be it. I plan on hosting LPS at first, then some SPS.

 

So Timfish thinks this will work fine. He's going to come over and help me set it up. He'll bring a diamond drill to cut out the bulkhead hole for the overflow. He'll also bring some live rock, live sand, corals and water from an existing aquarium. We should be able to set this thing up in one afternoon. I'll be sure and post pictures and videos as I get them.

 

So far, here's what I'm working with:

 

ADA CUBE GARDEN MINI M AQUARIUM (ULTRA HIGH CLARITY GLASS) 

 

Prime 16 AI reef light with mount

 

MP10 Powerhead (I know, a bit of overkill but I love these powerheads!)

 

 

and External DC variable speed motor purchased on Amazon (BRS didn't have anything like it)

 

 

I also got a Hanna Salinity Tester, a 3/4" bulkhead, and some cleaning supplies.

 

 

[Craig.]

Nice equipment list so far! What are you planning to use for auto top-off? And how will you overflow water from the tank down to the 'sump'?

[chippwalters]

Probably no ATO and instead will have a glass lid.

I'll drill overflow and return holes in the back of the tank. Both will go to the 5 gal container.

 

I may wrap a sock around the overflow exit when I'm cleaning.

EDIT: no need for sock. See diagram.

[sr2z]

Very interesting concept indeed... Actually, I´ve never seen anything like it. When I take a look at your serious equipment, I definitely see you aren´t joking around 👍 Good luck man!

[debbeach13]

Welcome back. Looking forward to seeing this very different setup.

[chippwalters]

Key point is the "fake sump" is cleaned after every water change AND there's no drop in water level in the aquarium.

[kekke1082]

This is an awesome idea! I may have to borrow this concept for my 10gallon to increase the water volume! I can't wait to see this come together. 

[farkwar]

So, It's an open-to-air 'closed' wavemaker loop?

 

I don't see the point of making it open-to-air

 

Now if you made it into a surge system

 

That would be cool

 

Or, by using pretty much using the equipment you have, it could be an automatic 100% water change out system.  Which seems to me, a lot more function to the form.

 

A sump is only a place, other than display, to store equipment, heater, filters, skimmers etc.  You can put all of that in the display and not even use a sump. Moving water from one tank to another tank does nothing else.  You are not putting any equipment in the sump.  So besides water volume, I don't see the point,,,buy a 10 gallon tank if you want 10 gallons of water.

[farkwar]

Another thing

 

The pumps we use have a really bad time 'sucking' water.  They are designed to push water.

 

If your 5G reservoir is below the pump and display, I doubt it will get prime

 

Especially if you are breaking the water loop and letting air into the line frequently as your diagram suggests

 

 

 

 

[metrokat]

Welcome back!!!

 

[metrokat]

Couple of thoughts - Why not have a real sump and still push the water the way you are intending? All you'll do is refill the sump. I agree with @farkwar about a surge system - that might be really cool, 100% water change. Then again if I was doing it like that I would have the sump do all my work for me with a killer refugium for nutrient export the natural way. You could theoretically have a no-water change system which many have done successfully (although with a larger water volume system) - with just auto top off.

 

I still think you will need an ATO to maintain salinity - the water level staying the same is not an indication of evaporation but only measuring will tell once the system is up and running.

 

My octopus tank has a lid and there is still evaporation from the one hole that is in the glass lid.

 

 

[chippwalters]

7 hours ago, farkwar said:

A sump is only a place, other than display, to store equipment, heater, filters, skimmers etc.  You can put all of that in the display and not even use a sump. Moving water from one tank to another tank does nothing else.  You are not putting any equipment in the sump.  So besides water volume, I don't see the point,,,buy a 10 gallon tank if you want 10 gallons of water.

I think you miss the point.

When you change out water, typically you use a turkey baster or other device to "stir up" the detritus and you use a gravel vacuum as well to remove the "old water." Much of the "dirty" water then goes down to the sump, where hopefully a filter sock or something keeps it all from just floating to the bottom, which some always does necessitating a cleaning of the sump at some future point.

 

My goal is to NOT clean up the sump--ever. So when you do a water change, you can stir up all the bad stuff, and it goes down to the "fake sump" but you don't care-- because you're replacing it. And you also can gravel siphon as well if you like, all the time keeping the aquarium full of water and not risking corals being exposed. That's the idea.

 

As far as ATO goes, we'll have to see if I really need one. My plan is to mark the "fake sump" container at the level when installed, and then just add fresh water by hand when it gets low.

 

5 hours ago, farkwar said:

If your 5G reservoir is below the pump and display, I doubt it will get prime

Yes, you are correct.

There are 3 possible solutions:

 

1. Buy a container that has a spicket at the bottom and hook up the DC pump there with a quick disconnect;

2. Buy a container with a big enough opening to drop the DC pump down into;

3. Buy a smaller pump and drop it down into the container.

 

I've been researching this and have found a smaller pump which will fit in the container and provide enough head and flow to do more than 5 water changes per hour.

[chippwalters]

5 hours ago, metrokat said:

Why not have a real sump and still push the water the way you are intending? All you'll do is refill the sump.

Hi Pooja!

Yes, you're correct, but I get to refill a brand new CLEAN sump and not have to worry about sump maintenance (filter socks, reactors, skimmers, etc..). I also don't need to worry about what kind of detritus or other mess I stir up in the tank that gets sucked down to the fake sump either. Just replace it with a new 5 gallon container of freshly heated saltwater.

 

Still the ATO thing is on my mind. I did order a 6 gallon Waterbox Mini just in case I do need a sump, or the ADA cracks from drilling.

 

But, I suspect I can keep up with the little bit of fresh water add that will be needed by keeping a 2 gallon container next to the fake sump and manually "topping off" when necessary. Remember, the tank is only 5 gallons, the "fake sump" resevoir has only a 2.75" Diameter opening, which will filled with the heater cord, the return pump cord, the return pump line and the overflow line-- so there's not a lot of room for evaporation there. Mostly just in the tank.

 

[farkwar]

I use a 5 gallon reservoir to pump 5 gallons of fresh saltwater into my tank

 

At the exact same time I use a pump to pump out 5 gallons of tank water into a 5 gallon reservoir from the tank

 

Is that what you are trying to do?

[chippwalters]

No, the pump is a return pump. There is no other pump. There is an overflow in the tank. When the water rises above the overflow, it automatically drains down into the sump. That's how overflows typically work.

[farkwar]

But why?

 

I have long said that moving water from one tank to another is not really necessary. That is to say, you could put all your filters in your display, and your corals wouldn't know the difference. The sump is not a filter.

 

You have taken this to a minimalist conclusion. Literally moving water from one tank to another(and an empty one), then back again

 

So what I see is

1) This is a defacto settleling tank

2) Or a means of doubling system water volume

3) Or both

 

It's your system, do what you like.  I was just curious as to why, that's all

[chippwalters]

Why?

1. I want a Pico, not a Nano. That means I want a 5 gallon tank, not a 10 gallon tank. 

2. I know there's a relationship between the amount of water in an aquarium system and the robustness or stableness of that system.

3. I've experimented enough to understand adding extra water to a Pico is beneficial to the Pico (again, NOT making it a Nano).

4. I don't want to mess around with refugiums, cryptic sumps, skimmers, filters, reactors, etc.. Been there, done that.

5. I want to be able to do major water changes AND clean the tank simply.

6. I don't want heaters or hang on filtration units in/on the 5 gallon tank. Both an eyesore and just more stuff to clean.

 

Apparently you are having trouble understanding the ease-of-use proposition I have made with regard to water changes and cleaning the display tank. Perhaps you can do the thought experiment on how you would handle a 5 gallon pico and get back to me.

 

Or perhaps you're just pulling my chain: I see where you've described yourself as an "NR Troll."  If so, then you got me 😄

[RedTheReefer]

My only concern is this:

 

Bringing a clean "sump" is great because it's already clean! But what about the one you are removing, wouldn't you have to clean that?

 

So what's exactly the difference here in terms of maintenance? It's seems like more work to me to clean 5 gallon jug that has a very small opening than a standard open top glass box. I think a normal sump with a standard water change is far lower maintenance.

 

I like the idea but you have more equipment to clean as well if you decide to have two pumps/heaters than only one of each. Not to mention getting under the stand and unplugging/detaching pumps etc to make the swap. A standard water change can take at most 10 minutes. This seems like a longer process.

 

Now if you want low maintenance, you should go for no sump, no HOB filter. Just a heater, wavemaker, and live rock in a glass box. That to me is simple and low maintenance.

 

But if you are planning to go full SPS, I'm sorry but that won't be low maintenance/cost with any route you go because you will have to eventually dose to maintain akalinity, calcium,  and magnesium.

 

Just my two pennies .

[chippwalters]

Thanks for your comments.

 

Not sure why you say 2 pumps, it's just one. However there are 2 heaters.

 

FWIW, I always clean out my 5 gallon polyethylene containers before I get them refilled at the LFS, so there's no extra step there. And no matter what, I'd have to heat up the water anyway for such a large water change for such a small tank, so I'd need a second heater anyway.

 

I live in the country with well water, and that's why I get my water from the LFS.

 

I don't think people are getting the fact that not only can I swap water, but also export harmful nutrients, all in one fell swoop-- with a crazy simple setup, and without endangering any corals.

 

Pull two hoses out of the dirty container, put them in the clean container. Really, at the basic level, that's it. 

 

I guess if I think the water is cloudy I can throw in a bag of purigen out chemi-pure-elite into the fake sump.

 

Or, there is the considerable possibility I have no idea what I'm talking about. We'll have to wait and see 🙂

[kekke1082]

20 minutes ago, chippwalters said:

Thanks for your comments.

 

Not sure why you say 2 pumps, it's just one. However there are 2 heaters.

 

FWIW, I always clean out my 5 gallon polyethylene containers before I get them refilled at the LFS, so there's no extra step there. And no matter what, I'd have to heat up the water anyway for such a large water change for such a small tank, so I'd need a second heater anyway.

 

I live in the country with well water, and that's why I get my water from the LFS.

 

I don't think people are getting the fact that not only can I swap water, but also export harmful nutrients, all in one fell swoop-- with a crazy simple setup, and without endangering any corals.

 

Pull two hoses out of the dirty container, put them in the clean container. Really, at the basic level, that's it. 

 

I guess if I think the water is cloudy I can throw in a bag of purigen out chemi-pure-elite into the fake sump.

 

Or, there is the considerable possibility I have no idea what I'm talking about. We'll have to wait and see 🙂

I get exactly what you mean. Not sure whats the confusion personally. I think the question/concern that people are having with the idea is just that for some folks it would be just as simple to do a sump and top off the tank with freshwater when needed. 

 

The concept you're going for is similar but also very different. Still can't wait for you to get it going though! And the concept has me thinking of a better way to move water in my 10gallon nano for sure 

[chippwalters]

Great.

Ok, question. How do you do your water changes currently in your nano? I take it, it's an all-in-one, with a filter/pump/heater/ato on the back?

 

[RedTheReefer]

4 minutes ago, kekke1082 said:

I get exactly what you mean. Not sure whats the confusion personally. I think the question/concern that people are having with the idea is just that for some folks it would be just as simple to do a sump and top off the tank with freshwater when needed. 

 

The concept you're going for is similar but also very different. Still can't wait for you to get it going though! And the concept has me thinking of a better way to move water in my 10gallon nano for sure 

Exactly this. We might have different opinions of simplicity and low maintenance but I'm excited to see how this turns out.

[RedTheReefer]

Just now, chippwalters said:

Great.

Ok, question. How do you do your water changes currently in your nano? I take it, it's an all-in-one, with a filter/pump/heater/ato on the back?

 

Wifi power strip, turn off ato/pump/heater from phone. Perform water change, turn them back on

[chippwalters]

@RedTheReefer

I saw your pico. It looks very nice.

[RedTheReefer]

Just now, chippwalters said:

@RedTheReefer

I saw your pico. It looks very nice.

Thank you. 🙂