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Help me decide if I should start dosing and what


Archon

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A few words on my tank and why I consider dosing.

I have a 6G that has been running for the past year, Koralia Nano for circulation (however it seems a bit weak in the tank?) and a hipargero/Aqua Knight LED light.

 

Inhabitants are 3 sexy shrimps, 1 turbo snail and the following corals/frags:

blastomussa wellsi, caulastrea, 1 euphyllia head, 7-8 different kinds of palys/zoas frags, 1 frag of seriatopora turqoise, 1 frag of stylophora milka, 1 frag of montipora spongodes, 1 frag of montipora digitata, 1 frag of plating montipora red, 3 kinds of ricordea (2 florida, 1 yuma), small frag of xenia, clavularia, GSP, 3 kinds of mushrooms. 

 

Issues that I am observing: First of all I should say that my SPS seem to do better than the rest of the corals with great PE and color. Xenia has shown some signs of growth. I observe that the zoas are in worst condition, i.e. heads not opening for entire weeks. I can't seem to be able to keep utter chaos more that a few days/weeks, they look like their stems get pinched at the base and then a magenta colored flesh comes out from that spot.  GSP does not do well at all. Also, the coralline, after one year of the system running, is pretty non existent.

 

Parameters: I know that my system is low/undetectable in nutrients and I tried to compensate with daily dosing Red Sea Reef Energy Plus AB+, feeding more frequently with Reef Roids and adding a dose of Nitrates after water changes. Doing this I saw some improvement but I am still unable to keep utter chaos as well as I don't see any signs of growth on most of my corals. 

Another thing that seems unstable is my Alkalinity levels and I am not sure if I should attribute the condition of Utter Chaos to this. I use Tropic Marin Pro Reef salt and I have found that my alkalinity fluctuates as below:

Measurement 24h after WC: 7.7dKH

Next 24h: 7.2dKH

Next 24h: 6.8dKH

Next 24h: 6.8dKH

 

All other parameters like PH, Ca, Mag, are in normal ranges. All the tests are performed with Salifert kits.

 

My question is if I should start dosing KH in order to keep my alkalinity stable and if yes, would you expect any issues by dosing only KH, since my other parameters are in the higher side of the range?

Would the low nutrients be the culprit here and could the alkalinity swing/low level be less impactful/important?  

 

I would prefer to keep things less complicated so if you think that raising nutrients could solve my problem and that the alkalinity issue is not causing this, I could introduce some fish and see how things go.

 

Excuse me for the long post, if you feel that there is info missing please let me know.

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If you dose alkalinity alone ca will drop and vice versa.

 

You would need a 2 part doser and dose in equal parts so that both ca and alk stay balanced.

 

What does a newly mixed batch of sw mix at for ca and alk?

 

Lack of nutrients would effect gsp, xenia, shrooms, and zoas. So if you have low to no phos and nitrates that would be the main issue for the corals that aren't growing/doing so well.

 

What media are you using?

Do you have macro algae in the tank?

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I have only measured the alkalinity of fresh SW mix at 7.7 dKH which is pretty close to the parameters I have found online for the salt I use, I haven't tested for Ca since I didn't seem to have any issues with it, I can mix some water and check it. The last time I measured the tank water, the calcium was sitting around 450ppm, if that matters.

 

I don't use any media, just rock for biological filtration and some filter floss in a small internal filter for mechanical, which is changed every week, during a water change. No algae either, I just have low bio-load and the coral food doesn't seem to maintain phosphates and nitrates to detectable levels.

 

So, do you think that the primary issue is the lack of nutrients and not the KH fluctuation? 

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On the particular corals you are having issues with, nutrients definitely play a part.

 

All corals need phos and nitrates.

 

I would test for a weeks from waterchange on to see where Alk starts and the daily drop.

 

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18 hours ago, Archon said:

Red Sea Reef Energy Plus AB+

This is an organic carbon/amino acid dosing scheme....it's going to lower dissolved nutrients, not raise them.  I would stop doing this.

 

18 hours ago, Archon said:

feeding more frequently with Reef Roids

You're in a tough situation with no fish to feed....I would still consider feeding a meatier food that your shrimp can have a chance to get 90-100% of.  Powdered foods go to waste too much IMO.

 

18 hours ago, Archon said:

adding a dose of Nitrates after water changes

Be wary of dosing nitrates without having plenty of phosphates in the water already first.  There is a real risk of bleaching and even mortality if you get it too wrong.

 

In general you shouldn't have to dose nitrates....and if you do, you probably have to dose phosphates as well.

 

(There is no such danger from the reverse – dosing phosphates without dosing nitrates.  That's completely safe.)

 

18 hours ago, Archon said:

Another thing that seems unstable is my Alkalinity levels and I am not sure if I should attribute the condition of Utter Chaos to this. I use Tropic Marin Pro Reef salt and I have found that my alkalinity fluctuates as below:

Measurement 24h after WC: 7.7dKH

Three things:

1) That salt has REALLY low alkalinity by design.  I would choose a different salt for your reef.  Even plain Tropic Marin will be a better choice. (Or Instant Ocean, or Red Sea, etc) This will buy you more time between water changes.  

2) You need a better handle on what ca, alk, and mg levels this salt is actually mixing up to BEFORE it goes into the tank.  Next time you make a batch, run three tests each for alk, ca and mg (total of 9 tests) and see what you get.

3) Alkalinity will be used up pretty quickly in such a small tank.  (There's very little alk in seawater to begin with, so it goes fast.)  Water changes are a good solution for a while.  Saltes like Reef Crystals have elevated ca, alk and mg levels to let you do more with water changes.  But you might want to have some reagents for dosing ca, alk and mg too, so you can make adjustments without doing a water change if you want to.

 

18 hours ago, Archon said:

I could introduce some fish

There are no fish that I could recommend for a 6 gallon tank – too tiny.  Just don't do it.

 

Feed your shrimp more (and more frequently....flake food in an auto-feeder might be a good option) and nail down your alkalinity....must remain stable for stony corals to remain really happy.  👍

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17 hours ago, Clown79 said:

 

I would test for a weeks from waterchange on to see where Alk starts and the daily drop.

 

Actually I have measured the daily drop and I observe that initially the KH drops by 0.5 degree for the first two days after the WC and then it stays at 6.8 dKH. To clarify what I wrote in the initial post:

WC last Sunday 18 Oct

Monday night: 7.7dKH

Tuesday night: 7.2dKH

Wednesday night: 6.8dKH

Thursday night: 6.8dKH

Friday night: 6.8dKH

Saturday night: 6.8dKH

 

Tonight I am doing another WC. Does the above look normal or is anything else happening that I am missing?

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@mcarroll 

1) I didn't realize that the "carbohydrates" will have the same effect as "carbon", I see what you mean though. I thought it would give the corals more food. 

2) Would you suggest some mysis in addition to the flake food or something else?

3) I know that dosing nitrates can lower phosphates to some degree. I will be more careful, actually I will try to resolve the lack of nutrients issue so that I will not have to dose.

4) I will consider switching salt. I went with Pro reef as it is considered "the best" by many, not knowing a lot when I made the choice. Dosing sooner or later, seems inevitable don't you think? Would the 2-part be sufficient for my tank's needs? I will have to do more research on dosing, just asking for some baseline to start off.

5) What about a small Goby such as Yellow Clown? Would you consider this for my tank? However, I doubt that it will add a lot to the bio-load of the tank.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Archon said:

@mcarroll 

1) I didn't realize that the "carbohydrates" will have the same effect as "carbon", I see what you mean though. I thought it would give the corals more food. 

2) Would you suggest some mysis in addition to the flake food or something else?

3) I know that dosing nitrates can lower phosphates to some degree. I will be more careful, actually I will try to resolve the lack of nutrients issue so that I will not have to dose.

4) I will consider switching salt. I went with Pro reef as it is considered "the best" by many, not knowing a lot when I made the choice. Dosing sooner or later, seems inevitable don't you think? Would the 2-part be sufficient for my tank's needs? I will have to do more research on dosing, just asking for some baseline to start off.

5) What about a small Goby such as Yellow Clown? Would you consider this for my tank? However, I doubt that it will add a lot to the bio-load of the tank.

 

 

In a 6g a clown goby or tailspot blenny would be fine.

 

I've had blennies in a 5.5g and there was planty of room and the tank ran smoothly.

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6 hours ago, Archon said:

@mcarroll 

1) I didn't realize that the "carbohydrates" will have the same effect as "carbon", I see what you mean though. I thought it would give the corals more food. 

2) Would you suggest some mysis in addition to the flake food or something else?

3) I know that dosing nitrates can lower phosphates to some degree. I will be more careful, actually I will try to resolve the lack of nutrients issue so that I will not have to dose.

4) I will consider switching salt. I went with Pro reef as it is considered "the best" by many, not knowing a lot when I made the choice. Dosing sooner or later, seems inevitable don't you think? Would the 2-part be sufficient for my tank's needs? I will have to do more research on dosing, just asking for some baseline to start off.

5) What about a small Goby such as Yellow Clown? Would you consider this for my tank? However, I doubt that it will add a lot to the bio-load of the tank.

 

 

1.

Well, corals sit around making carbohydrates all day long thanks to photosynthesis...so I'm not sure what they need more for.  🤷‍♂️

 

2.

Mysis is fine.  👍 Ideally something of marine origin also or instead though....if possible, at least supplement with something oceanic (even if it's the flake food).  Krill, plankton, something.

 

4.

TMpr is fine per se, but I *think* it's intended for for folks with calcium reactors.  Their original formula (or one of the others I mentioned) would be more for tanks like yours.

 

5.

I wold go with Clown's advice on fish – at most.  IMO even the tailspot would be cramped...but it's one of the smallest fish you're likely to find for sale.   Another fish to consider is the Barnacle Blenny.  Not very commonly for sale, but would be a good fit.  Think of them as TINY Midas Blennies in term of their personality/lifetyle.  But they are camoflaged and tiny instead of gold colored and large like the Midas.

 

In general, I tend to favor low-bioload tanks, regardless of tank size.  So your mileage may vary depending on your feelings about that.   E.g. in my 125 Gallon I have two fish....one Yellow Tang and one Black Damselfish.   I might add another fish someday, but have no plans presently.

 

Personally, for fish in a 6 gallon tank, I would stick with freshwater and avoid saltwater.  TONS of great tiny-fish options in fresh.

 

For saltwater, in such a small tank, I'd stick with corals and other invertebrates.

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16 hours ago, Archon said:

Thank you both for the advice, I will try to make the changes discussed above and see what happens. Then I might consider dosing.

ESV is a very nice dosing system for two-part.

 

Two-part style dosing is a good, relatively straightforward option for dosing a tank.   (Vs. calcium reactor, kalkwasser, et al)

 

 

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On 10/27/2020 at 4:45 AM, mcarroll said:

ESV is a very nice dosing system for two-part.

 

Two-part style dosing is a good, relatively straightforward option for dosing a tank.   (Vs. calcium reactor, kalkwasser, et al)

 

 

I don't seem to be able to find ESV products as I don't live in the US. What would be some alternatives to look at?

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20 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

Where do you live?

In Greece, there are a couple reputable LFS around but they carry the most “mainstream” brands if that makes sense.

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Me personally in such a small tank you don’t need dosing or fancy equipment. Stability is key here. A good salt mix and an auto top off go a long way to success, without needing to change the chemistry of your water so often with dosing. Do weekly small water changes to rebalance the water chemistry. People tend to over due it with adding chemicals and bio load. 

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10 hours ago, Archon said:

In Greece, there are a couple reputable LFS around but they carry the most “mainstream” brands if that makes sense.

You should be fine with whatever they carry locally.  

 

Just make sure the instructions on the bottle make sense to you.  Somehow the concentration of the product needs to be in there so you can compute how much to dose to achieve a given increase in dKH.  👍

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16 hours ago, Archon said:

In Greece, there are a couple reputable LFS around but they carry the most “mainstream” brands if that makes sense.

Ya, you mean like red sea?

 

Any 2 part dosing product will work.

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