Can you have successful tank without testing water?

[Andrew561]

I haven’t tested my water and I don’t even know what test kit to get as I am definitely on a budget. Is it necessary to test water? I have 3 fish and am about to have a decent amount of corals in my 16G.

[seabass]

25 minutes ago, Andrew561 said:

Can you have successful tank without testing water?

It depends.  Without stony corals (LPS and SPS), testing becomes less necessary.  Or if you have a pico, you can do huge water changes to replenish elements.  The larger the tank, the less practical it is to do very large water changes.  And the more stony corals you have, the greater the demand on alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium.  If you wish to setup a tank that doesn't require much testing, stick to soft corals and do regular water changes.

 

[Andrew561]

32 minutes ago, seabass said:

It depends.  Without stony corals (LPS and SPS), testing becomes less necessary.  Or if you have a pico, you can do huge water changes to replenish elements.  The larger the tank, the less practical it is to do very large water changes.  And the more stony corals you have, the greater the demand on alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium.  If you wish to setup a tank that doesn't require much testing, stick to soft corals and do regular water changes.

 

I do have a decent amount of stony corals. Montis and Acans 

[jservedio]

So if you have a tank that's not a small pico and have stony corals, you need to test. Period.

 

The older and more stable the tank gets, the more experienced you get, and the sixth sense you develop around your tank, the more you can get away with testing less things and testing less often.

 

Also, any problems you have, if you don't test, there is no way to solve them. If your tank is cycled, you need to be able to test, at minimum, Nitrates, Phosphates, Calcium, Alkalinity, and Magnesium with stony corals.

 

Alkalinity is the biggest and most important one as your stony corals get bigger and water changes can't keep up with replenishing it. Nitrates and Phosphates are important to ensure they don't bottom out and starve your corals and leave the door open for dinos or chrysophytes or become too elevated and turn your tank into an algae factory.

[Andrew561]

26 minutes ago, jservedio said:

So if you have a tank that's not a small pico and have stony corals, you need to test. Period.

 

The older and more stable the tank gets, the more experienced you get, and the sixth sense you develop around your tank, the more you can get away with testing less things and testing less often.

 

Also, any problems you have, if you don't test, there is no way to solve them. If your tank is cycled, you need to be able to test, at minimum, Nitrates, Phosphates, Calcium, Alkalinity, and Magnesium with stony corals.

 

Alkalinity is the biggest and most important one as your stony corals get bigger and water changes can't keep up with replenishing it. Nitrates and Phosphates are important to ensure they don't bottom out and starve your corals and leave the door open for dinos or chrysophytes or become too elevated and turn your tank into an algae factory.

What do I buy that tests for all these things?

[RedTheReefer]

I have montipora, seriatopora, chyphastrea, euphyllia, caulastrea, scolymia, acans, and a pectinia.

 

I haven't tested my akalinity, calcium, magnesium, or phosphate in about a year but should I?

 

Yes, I 100% should.  Especially akalinity. It's good to know these parameters so you understand whats going on in your tank. Since my tank is primarily LPS, there isn't much to worry about parameters in my opinion as long as they are stable. But once I move over to a SPS dominant tank, I plan on testing my akalinity daily because they are more demanding corals.

[jservedio]

45 minutes ago, Andrew561 said:

What do I buy that tests for all these things?

There are a bunch of companies that make these tests. Personally I use the Hanna alkalinity add phosphate checkers and use Salifert kits for the rest, bit there are plenty of other options.

[Tired]

You can run a tank without testing... if it never runs into any problems, by sheer chance. Testing helps you diagnose and fix problems, and spot ones that are trying to happen. It's a little like driving a car with the gas gauge covered up, so you can't see how much gas is in the tank. Can it work? Sure. Is it a good idea? Hell no. You shouldn't do it. 

[Tamberav]

At minimum, I would recommend an alkalinity test kit. Hannah is my favorite. This is what I track the most on my tanks... I almost never test Ca/Mg unless something is off. I use ESV 2 part which you dose based off alk and it balances Ca/Mg (plus water changes) and therefor Ca/Mg never drift much. 

 

Nitrate and PO4 are probably my 2nd most tested on my large tank but I hardly ever test them on my nano's anymore. I did find testing them when the tank was young fairly helpful though.

 

If coral is struggling people are always going to ask you for parameters. So owning all the test kits when new to the hobby is pretty helpful.

 

When you buy PO4, it needs to be something useful to saltwater like hannah low range... don't buy API phosphate, the color range is useless, not accurate enough. 

[seabass]

6 hours ago, Andrew561 said:

I am definitely on a budget.

Then I would get Salifert: alkalinity, calcium, magnesium, and nitrate test kits.  Salifert's phosphate kit is usable, but determining a precise value is dubious (but also, not entirely necessary).  A Hanna ULR Checker will give you a more precise and easier to read number for phosphate/phosphorus (but that will also cost you more).

 

It's true that many of these tests become more like occasional (but important) checks; especially when determining your system's individual characteristics.  But they are also important as your reef changes (from additional livestock, growth, and changing consumption rates).  Not to mention the build up of (or demand for) nutrients.

 

With lots of stony corals, there's really no way to get away without some form of dosing.  And the relationship between alkalinity, magnesium, and calcium make it necessary to test them all (at least occasionally).  You must know the alkalinity level (and its current rate of consumption), and be relatively aware of the other two (making sure they stay within an acceptable range).

 

You can get away without testing for a bit; but sooner or later it will bite you in the butt.  And the cost of losing corals makes the cost of test kits a little easier to accept.

 

[mcarroll]

On 10/20/2020 at 9:13 PM, Andrew561 said:

I haven’t tested my water and I don’t even know what test kit to get as I am definitely on a budget. Is it necessary to test water? I have 3 fish and am about to have a decent amount of corals in my 16G.

It seems like you have the cart before the horse.  I'm curious how did you decide to start a reef tank??

 

You need to ask a question like this before choosing your animals...or even sooner.

 

The answer can be "Yes.  No testing is required." but there would be a big IF followed by the list of limitations it would place on you and your tank.

 

Hopefully you have a local fish store.  They will usually do testing for free, or cheap.  Take advantage of this.

 

API brand kits are probably the cheapest for everything if you're buying kits.  However, if I recall correctly their alkalinity kit is not precise enough to use for dosing.  Otherwise I'm fine with using them.

 

Other brands your store might carry (Salifert, Red Sea, Elos, Hanna, et al) should be more or less OK too...I think the rest are 100% reef oriented (unlike that API alk kit).

 

 

[Andrew561]

5 hours ago, mcarroll said:

It seems like you have the cart before the horse.  I'm curious how did you decide to start a reef tank??

 

You need to ask a question like this before choosing your animals...or even sooner.

 

The answer can be "Yes.  No testing is required." but there would be a big IF followed by the list of limitations it would place on you and your tank.

 

Hopefully you have a local fish store.  They will usually do testing for free, or cheap.  Take advantage of this.

 

API brand kits are probably the cheapest for everything if you're buying kits.  However, if I recall correctly their alkalinity kit is not precise enough to use for dosing.  Otherwise I'm fine with using them.

 

Other brands your store might carry (Salifert, Red Sea, Elos, Hanna, et al) should be more or less OK too...I think the rest are 100% reef oriented (unlike that API alk kit).

 

 

I bought a fully established tank (8 years old) locally. Everything has been thriving in here so far.

[mitten_reef]

14 minutes ago, Andrew561 said:

I bought a fully established tank (8 years old) locally. Everything has been thriving in here so far.

not from the rock and sand shots you provided in the swapping sand thread last night - the sand AND rocks do not look to be 8 years old, not even 8 months old IMO.  unless of course that's a different tank (in which case, my apologies in advance)

[Andrew561]

Just now, mitten_reef said:

not from the rock and sand shots you provided in the swapping sand thread last night - the sand AND rocks do not look to be 8 years old, not even 8 months old IMO.  unless of course that's a different tank (in which case, my apologies in advance)

If you look at the sand, it's not hard to believe it's 8 years old. And you're right, one rock is 8 years old. I added the others recently.

[Clown79]

6 hours ago, Andrew561 said:

I bought a fully established tank (8 years old) locally. Everything has been thriving in here so far.

My tanks are 6 yrs old. I still test them just not as frequently as I did when the tank and myself were new to this.

 

weekly - alkalinity, nitrate

every 2 weeks - phos

 

the rest is monthly tested but that's because I know whats going on in my tank, I dose, and I know when something is off just by visually inspecting my tank.

For a new hobbyist, I would recommend weekly testing to understand what exactly is going on in the tank, how to evaluate a problem via testing.

[pokerdobe]

You should test as often as possible. In a perfect world, you would be recording and monitoring real time measurements of all relevant parameters. Test when things are wrong. Test when things are right. Whatever you do, test and record. It's going to be the first thing experienced reefers will ask you for as well.

 

In addition, a single snapshot of your parameters is limited. A history of snapshots is way more useful. The more data points you have, the more you can spot trends, issues, etc. If you only test once a month and your alk spiked/dropped 2-3 DKH points, you're missing a whole lot of data points that could have helped decipher what happened. Is it due to consumption? Did your salt mix come in hot? Is your doser broken? How the data changes is just as relevant as the fact that your data changed. 

 

So in short, test. 

[mcarroll]

On 10/22/2020 at 9:27 AM, Andrew561 said:

I bought a fully established tank (8 years old) locally. Everything has been thriving in here so far.

In that case you kinda should do everything the previous owner was doing.  Unlikely they weren't testing.  

 

Good that everything is still doing well!!  😊

[Crys]

I have learned in a short 2 years that you can't go cheep in this hobby. I got a new 13.5 fluval Evo for 150.00. I thought great it's an all in one I'm set. Well about 700.00 later I have a nice little tank. No comparison to keeping freshwater fish. Hubby has no idea how much I've spent. Lol. I think the best advice for someone considering the hobby is look before you leap. Don't even go into the store and fall for all the little beauties you see there until you look at costs. The tank is the cheapest part. I'm speaking from experience.  All the best to new tank owners!

[jservedio]

1 hour ago, Crys said:

Well about 700.00 later I have a nice little tank. No comparison to keeping freshwater fish. Hubby has no idea how much I've spent. Lol.

The best part about BRS is the packing slip no longer has prices and they don't put an invoice in the box!

[farkwar]

..

 

 

[Andrew561]

My local fish store owner. Very knowledgeable guy, low key, has been doing this for 45 years. When I asked about testing water he said “ in 45 years he’s never tested his water”. 
 

He said a water change will cure all. In fact what he said about this 800 gallon tank where all his corals are is he changes 800 gallons at a time. 

 

Interesting.

[ReefGoat]

Well then by all means follow his lead. If thats your pergoative. I'd go with soft corals and not look into any stony corals or lps though. I will leave you with this to consider. Look around this website. Canned fish, teenyreef, wvreefer, Harry Potter, yhsublime. I'm not going to keep typing their names but everyone else that has responded in this thread and many more here on this wonderful resource. They all test......especially when their reefs are in their infancy. You are right that you can just change all your water all the time and assume your tank is stable. But what are you going to do when you bottom out your nutrients from changing all your water all the time and dinos and cyano put a death grip on your tank.......you going to dose nutrients? What about your salinity? You just going to guess? Honestly, it doesn't seem like you're too committed to your tank and want the path of least resistance. 

[Tired]

Not testing water works just fine if you have no problems that you need to find with testing. But what happens if the problem is something that's wrong with your new water? In that case, a water change will make it worse. And, yes, doing water changes too often will starve things and encourage certain pest algae. Some tanks don't do well at all with frequent 100% water changes. There is something to be said about pico tanks where, if something is a bit awry, it might be easier to just change a gallon of water than pinpoint exactly what's wrong. 

 

However. Water testing is not that hard. Just get an okay test kit, and if something looks like it might be amiss (corals not pleased, algae surge not in line with the typical new-tank uglies), you can test the water and find out what's wrong. It's a good idea to test periodically while your tank is new, to figure out how much of everything it's using up, but is not required. I keep meaning to, but haven't been. 

 

Absolute bare minimum, you need to get a refractometer and the calibration for it. Check your salinity regularly to make sure your topoffs are enough. Check the salinity of new water for a water change. Each test takes about 10 seconds, and you can get a refractometer for $20 online. Not enough trouble or money to be worth not having. 

 

And how do you plan to tell your tank is cycled, without being able to test nitrites, nitrates, and ammonia? 

 

If you have a pest algae surge, you need to know if it's because of high nutrients, or low nutrients. One needs to be worked on with more water changes, one needs less. It's pretty darn tricky to tell which it is, without a water test, or experimentation that could make things worse. 

 

Either way, never dose anything you can't test for. 

 

(Oh, and one person having something work out fine doesn't mean that everyone will have it work out fine, or that it's a good idea. I'll guarantee he's had problems in the past that he could have found more easily if he'd just tested the water. And changing 800 gallons of water whenever you have a potential problem will get REAL pricy, in addition to possibly making the problem worse.)

[Andrew561]

14 minutes ago, ReefGoat said:

Honestly, it doesn't seem like you're too committed to your tank and want the path of least resistance. 

It’s not reasonable to come to this conclusion as a result of me telling about a conversation I had.

[ReefGoat]

Being on a budget is one thing and I fully understand and respect that. But you're simply trying to convince yourself that you don't need to test and using conformation bias by finding someone who doesn't test and is having success. Theres a big difference between a seasoned reefer with a dang 800 gallon system thats been running for years and a 16 gallon system with a beginner. Thats just the the truth.