NORMAL NEW CLOWN BEHAVIOR???

[1255fish]

So I got 2 new clowns 2 days ago and I’m not sure if this is normal behavior. The larger clown looks to be about 3 inches and the smaller one is maybe 1.5-2. I’m worried that I may have gotten two females 😬. They fought initially when put into the tank. The smaller clown actually initiated it and the clamped mouths once! After that the larger clown kept doing some weird twitchy thing whenever it got close to the smaller clown. It would literally follow it around the tank and twitch in front of it. It was aggressive but I think the black clown was a little stressed out by it.
 

Day two, the black clown is swimming in our coral. Which I’m not sure if this is good or back for the coral. The larger clown will swim next to the smaller one and still twitch next to him but he also spends a lot of time at the top of the tank, swimming sideways against the wall. I’m not sure if this is normal or not, I’ve been trying to monitor their breathing but it’s really hard to see their gills. 
 

I’ll post a video bellow of them interacting. If someone could let me know if this is normal or not? If they aren’t comparable I don’t want to keep them together! They get into it about a minute into the video if you want to skip. 
 

 

[Clown79]

This sounds like normal behavior.

 

Clowns will host anything from powerheads, coral, anemone.

 

The twitching you are seeing is the submission/dominance dance which is normal

[seabass]

Twitching is normal, but the smaller submissive one usually does it.  Looks like they are still trying to figure out their roles.

 

My guess is that if they were both females, they'd be fighting all the time... and to the point of damage.  The easiest pairings are when you introduce a young juvenile with a much larger member of the same species, then there is little to figure out.

 

I'd continue to monitor their behavior, especially checking for damage.  But my bet is still on it working out.

[Hazy]

Where they in the same tank when you bought them? 
 

they will change gender even if you do have two females. The twitching is good because that means they are being submissive and will fight less.

 

 

[seabass]

1 hour ago, Hazy said:

they will change gender even if you do have two females.

Not sure about that.  While some other types of fish (like gobies) can do this, I don't believe that clownfish can.  From my understanding, males can always turn female, but females will remain female.  The males remain male as long as there is a female in the group.  However, two females (in a nano tank at least) will eventually fight each other to the death (given that there is no opportunity to leave the other's territory).

 

Somebody, please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Clown79]

Female clowns don't change back into males.

 

Clownfish "family" or harem is based on size and hierarchy. The largest most dominant transitions into female while the others maintain their male status.

 

Once the female dies the largest, most dominant male in the harem becomes a female.

 

Once female they don't revert back to male. 

[1255fish]

They were not in the same tank but the black one had a lot of damage it its fins when he got him. It looked like he was getting picked on a lot at the store. The big one isn't really picking on him, just fallowing him around and twitching at him. I did notice some white dots on the black clown. I'm not sure what to do, I think that both clowns seem to be breathing a little hard. I did a fresh water dip and it looked like some white specs came off of them but they are still breathing hard today. Not sure if they just need time to heal of if its something more serious?

[seabass]

Sounds like Ich to me.

 

[Clown79]

3 hours ago, 1255fish said:

They were not in the same tank but the black one had a lot of damage it its fins when he got him. It looked like he was getting picked on a lot at the store. The big one isn't really picking on him, just fallowing him around and twitching at him. I did notice some white dots on the black clown. I'm not sure what to do, I think that both clowns seem to be breathing a little hard. I did a fresh water dip and it looked like some white specs came off of them but they are still breathing hard today. Not sure if they just need time to heal of if its something more serious?

How old is the tank? Its been fully cycled i assume?

 

It sounds like it could be ich.

[1255fish]

We have had the tank since February. We moved all the fish to a QT tank to monitor them and don't see any new spots. The black clown is still breathing heavily but we separated him from the larger clown and he seems a little calmer. We don't really have a proper way of separating them we just put him in a large glass bowl in the tank and had a cover with a bunch of whole on it.  Now that we can see him better most of his fins looks really torn up. I'm not sure if the larger clown did this or if it was a tank mate from the shop but I'm worried this is what's causing his stress. Either way I wouldn't be able to distinguish any old damage from new the way it looks right now. Should I treat him with anything or just let him heal naturally? 

[seabass]

10 minutes ago, 1255fish said:

We don't really have a proper way of separating them we just put him in a large glass bowl in the tank and had a cover with a bunch of whole on it.

That doesn't sound good.  Do you have a picture of this?  If they are fighting that bad, I might contact the LFS that you got them from and return one (or both if you can).

 

11 minutes ago, 1255fish said:

We moved all the fish to a QT tank to monitor them and don't see any new spots.

Please read that article on Ich that I linked above (there are some treatment options and other information in it).  Ich progresses in stages.  People often think it's gone, and then it comes back even more heavily.  The other thing is that if it is Ich, your tank will have to remain fallow once again.  I know that sucks, but there's no getting around it.

[1255fish]

I posted some pictures of the black clown. His fins are not looking great but they have been separated for a day now. I read the article but all the other fish look fine it’s just him so I’m not sure what to do. Do I treat the healthy fish? Should I do more water changes in the QT tank? 

[seabass]

I'm not sure if it's just the picture, but I'm not seeing the white spots of Ich.

[Clown79]

I don't see any spots on the fish.

 

Were there a lot of spots or just a couple?

 

Is there a possibility it could have been particles floating in the water or sand attached to the fish? 

[1255fish]

So far I can only see two. I’ll post a better picture, the light was off in those IVE been trying to keep them calm. Even in this picture it’s hard to see because the light in put QT tank is just a basic light. His skin looks like it has little patches where it’s lighter than it’s normal black color. I’m not sure what to do about it. Should I treat with copper or wait a little longer. The other fish look fine but have a little rapid breathing. 

[seabass]

Poor gal. 

 

Sorry, I can't really tell from the pic.  Ich looks a bit like table salt crystals, if that helps any.  The rapid breathing really concerns me.  If it is Ich, the parasites often attach to the gills, making it hard to breathe.  But rapid breathing is also a sign of acute stress (which can occur from a host of other problems too).

 

8 hours ago, 1255fish said:

Now that we can see him better most of his fins looks really torn up. I'm not sure if the larger clown did this or if it was a tank mate from the shop

You can see in the video that this damage has occurred since then.

 

So are the fish in your tank still, and the Domino is in a breeder box?  Again, I'm not a fish disease expert, but make sure that you don't dose copper in a tank with rock or sand in it.  The copper will bind to them, making the medication less concentrated, and making the rock and sand inappropriate to use for any future inverts.

 

As far as treating with copper, this is only effective if it's parasitic (like Ich).  Maybe @Humblefish could weigh in here.  I feel that I'm not providing enough information fast enough to save your fish.  Things can often progress quite rapidly.

[seabass]

So I see the pic shows they are in some sort of temporary tank.  I guess I didn't really notice that before.  Does it have a working biofilter?  If not, the heavy breathing can be due to ammonia in the water.  This can build up quickly and kill your fish.

 

I feel bad for them.  I wish I could help, but feel like I'm not doing enough.  For ammonia, you can treat with Seachem Prime.  But make sure that you don't dose Prime with Cupramine (as that can be deadly).

[1255fish]

Yeah I thought it could be ammonia too but we checked and it was normal plus we did a 50% water change yesterday and there isn't a big difference. He is eating so I guess that's a good thing. I'm not even sure what to do at this point. I put him in a breeder box so that the other clown couldn't get to him plus I can see him a little better. I guess I'll keep monitoring him. There are no new white spots and its been a couple of days so many that isn't a problem. I would do another fresh water dip but I don't want to add to the stress right now. 

[Humblefish]

I see some ripped fins, but no patches on the fish. Does it look anything like what you see below?

 

[1255fish]

8 hours ago, Humblefish said:

I see some ripped fins, but no patches on the fish. Does it look anything like what you see below?

 

No it doesn’t look like the picture. It mostly looks like a bit of discoloration on parts of the body, he might have scratched himself on something. I will post a picture with a little better lighting. He has 2 white spots that are really popping off the body. I came to take another look at him and his body isn’t looking too great. It almost looks like his skin is blotchy or transparent at parts. 

 

[Humblefish]

@1255fish It could be a bacterial infection: https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/407685-bacterial-infections/

 

Kanaplex + Metroplex is a good combination to use on clownfish. You can also add Furan-2 to this.

[1255fish]

Just thought I'd give everyone a positive update! All the fish are alive and healthy. The clowns still fight but not as excessively as before. Sometimes they even swim around the tank together, and I have notices that the black clown doesn't have chunks of his fins missing anymore. They have been moved to the display tank now and seem to be enjoying it.