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Llorgon

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On 10/9/2020 at 11:42 AM, Llorgon said:

Got a couple more pictures of the mystery nudibranch thing. There are a bunch in the tank.

DSC_0221.JPG

I've had these in my tank before.  They came in on a piece of live rock.  Once I took the rock out of the tank, they disappeared never to be seen again.

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58 minutes ago, Llorgon said:

I fully agree, but I am being overrun with algae. I would like algae to grow, but not be out of control everywhere in the tank.

Without seeing a picture we won't know exactly how bad the outbreak is 

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On 10/1/2020 at 1:17 PM, Llorgon said:

Turkey baste the rocks every so often, but not on a regular basis.

 

Was cleaning the sand weekly, but it was suggested in another forum to just leave it be.

DSC_0210.JPG

@Clown79 - Look at all that delicious hair algae.  🙂

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I know.... Between the gha and the fading corals. My tank makes me sad lately.

 

If I could find some cuc then I might buy some established live rock and give the tank a bit of a restart.

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11 hours ago, Llorgon said:

If I could find some cuc then I might buy some established live rock and give the tank a bit of a restart.

To me, it looks like you started with dry rock and the green hair algae came in and took it over.  

 

Some ideas:

 

- A good clean up crew that is focused on hair algae eaters would help.

 

- Manual removal by pulling tufts off it off the rock would really help get it mowed down quickly (the longer the algae is, the easier it is to pull big chunks of it off).

 

- Taking out some of the rock one at a time and bleaching it back to new would be a good way to restart...and then...

 

- Adding in some good quality established rock on top of the the newly bleached pieces so the coralline can grow over onto it would help prevent this from happening again.

 

- Check your lighting...how long are you running it?  Something is definitely fueling that hair algae for it to get that long...when I had gha issues with a previous tank, I was running my lights on AB+ spectrum for 14 hours a day.  I turned my lighting down and only run it for 10 hours a day now and no more gha issues.

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5 hours ago, j.falk said:

To me, it looks like you started with dry rock and the green hair algae came in and took it over.  

 

Some ideas:

 

- A good clean up crew that is focused on hair algae eaters would help.

 

- Manual removal by pulling tufts off it off the rock would really help get it mowed down quickly (the longer the algae is, the easier it is to pull big chunks of it off).

 

- Taking out some of the rock one at a time and bleaching it back to new would be a good way to restart...and then...

 

- Adding in some good quality established rock on top of the the newly bleached pieces so the coralline can grow over onto it would help prevent this from happening again.

 

- Check your lighting...how long are you running it?  Something is definitely fueling that hair algae for it to get that long...when I had gha issues with a previous tank, I was running my lights on AB+ spectrum for 14 hours a day.  I turned my lighting down and only run it for 10 hours a day now and no more gha issues.

Ya that is pretty much exactly what has happened. Started with dry rock and gha took hold before anything else.

 

I called every lfs in town last night. Managed to get 4 turbo snails. So cuc is currently a couple hermits, 5 turbos and 5 nassarius.

Been manually removing as much as I can. Some times it seems like it's making progress and other times it doesn't.

I have actually been considering changing rocks. It's a small tank and I don't have any corals glued to rocks except kenya tree so would be pretty easy.

 

For lights, Radion XR30, 30% intensity, LPS spectrum, lights come on at 9am and ramp up until 10am and start ramping down at 8pm and off by 9pm. I do have a par meter if you want par readings.

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Where do you live at?  If you are in the U.S...the best place to buy CUC critters is: reefcleaners.org

 

If you can kill off the green hair algae and seed the rock with something that has a lot of coralline on it, you'll be well on your way to turning things around.  But the key will be actually killing off the gha...not just trimming it back.  You need to completely eradicate it or it will just keep coming back over and over again.

 

As a side note, I feel sorry for your yellow tang...he deserves a bigger tank.  That one just looks too small for him.  ☹️

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Live rock with a bunch of goodies on it will definitely help. I am a firm believer in diversity. I seeded my dry rock with KP Aquatics live rock. I did a high salinity dip to remove crabs and other hitch hikers. Then picked through what I wanted to keep. Im still seeing new life like feather dusters and worms come out after many months. 
 

I also had very good luck in the past with vibrant to help knock out hair algae. It cleared my rocks within the first week. And I suspect I had bryopsis on a frag which is also gone. I personally have not had any negative effects. Once the algae was dead, I installed an algae scrubber and now its growing in there instead of my display.  
 

There are so many ways to get good results in this hobby. Stick to it, be consistent, and don’t change too much at once. Eventually you will get on a routine that works for your tank. Every system is different!

 

Cant comment on those nudis. But I would assume just pluck them out with tweezers when you see them. 

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4 hours ago, j.falk said:

Where do you live at?  If you are in the U.S...the best place to buy CUC critters is: reefcleaners.org

 

If you can kill off the green hair algae and seed the rock with something that has a lot of coralline on it, you'll be well on your way to turning things around.  But the key will be actually killing off the gha...not just trimming it back.  You need to completely eradicate it or it will just keep coming back over and over again.

 

As a side note, I feel sorry for your yellow tang...he deserves a bigger tank.  That one just looks too small for him.  ☹️

I'm in Canada. Unfortunately they don't ship here.

 

Ya, killing it has been tricky so far. Any tips on that?

 

I do have a bigger tank, but my stand was broken when we moved. Almost finished it then it's moved to a larger tank. This entire tank was only supposed to be for a month or two while my larger tank was setup again. Then with the stand breaking and covid everything kinda took longer than expected.

3 hours ago, Elizabeth94 said:

Live rock with a bunch of goodies on it will definitely help. I am a firm believer in diversity. I seeded my dry rock with KP Aquatics live rock. I did a high salinity dip to remove crabs and other hitch hikers. Then picked through what I wanted to keep. Im still seeing new life like feather dusters and worms come out after many months. 
 

I also had very good luck in the past with vibrant to help knock out hair algae. It cleared my rocks within the first week. And I suspect I had bryopsis on a frag which is also gone. I personally have not had any negative effects. Once the algae was dead, I installed an algae scrubber and now its growing in there instead of my display.  
 

There are so many ways to get good results in this hobby. Stick to it, be consistent, and don’t change too much at once. Eventually you will get on a routine that works for your tank. Every system is different!

 

Cant comment on those nudis. But I would assume just pluck them out with tweezers when you see them. 

I have tried Vibrant. Didn't see any change in the algae.

 

It sounds like I should start searching for some good live rock.

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5 minutes ago, j.falk said:

@Clown79 - Any ideas on where to order quality live rock or clean up crew livestock in Canada?

Liverock is pretty hard to get here. Most stores have moved to dry rock now. So buying from other hobbyists is the only way i can think of.

 

Joining ORK on facebook can be helpful. Its all hobbyists and canadian vendors.

 

Clean up crew, these are reputable companies that ship

 

fragbox 

Candy coral

J&l aquatics

Aquarium depot

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50 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

Liverock is pretty hard to get here. Most stores have moved to dry rock now. So buying from other hobbyists is the only way i can think of.

 

Joining ORK on facebook can be helpful. Its all hobbyists and canadian vendors.

 

Clean up crew, these are reputable companies that ship

 

fragbox 

Candy coral

J&l aquatics

Aquarium depot

I'm part of a Okanagan reef keepers group. I put out a post for liverock there.

 

fragbox - In stock

Candy coral - In stock

J&l aquatics - Emailed. I didn't know they were shipping again.

Aquarium depot - Site says some cuc are in stock, but then in the cart it says backorder.

 

Going to wait and see on J&L since they are cheaper and have cheaper shipping in BC. I never looked at aquarium depot or candy corals. Thanks for the suggestions!

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23 hours ago, Llorgon said:

I'm part of a Okanagan reef keepers group. I put out a post for liverock there.

 

fragbox - In stock

Candy coral - In stock

J&l aquatics - Emailed. I didn't know they were shipping again.

Aquarium depot - Site says some cuc are in stock, but then in the cart it says backorder.

 

Going to wait and see on J&L since they are cheaper and have cheaper shipping in BC. I never looked at aquarium depot or candy corals. Thanks for the suggestions!

Fragbox and candycorals both ship canada wide and both are highly recommended.

 

Canada corals is in bc.

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On 10/1/2020 at 1:43 PM, Llorgon said:



CUC
3 hermits
1 or 2 cerith
1 or 2 astrea.
I have been trying to get more for months, but with covid places aren't shipping livestock. And the only stores near me are almost always out of stock.


 

Reefcleaners.org 

 

this is where I order cleanup crew from - they have cleaner packages designed for tank size. 
I’ve also done the whole rocks rubbing thing and all it does it gets rid of beneficial bacteria that actually eats algae and keeps your tank stable. 
 

This is a great video:

 

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14 hours ago, ReefAdoRe said:

Reefcleaners.org 

 

this is where I order cleanup crew from - they have cleaner packages designed for tank size. 
I’ve also done the whole rocks rubbing thing and all it does it gets rid of beneficial bacteria that actually eats algae and keeps your tank stable. 

Reefcleaners doesn't ship to Canada...

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I'll see how these go. Already spending $100 including shipping for those snails. They should arrive tomorrow.

 

Watched that youtube video about algae you posted @ReefAdoRe interesting that they say high blue light value can lead to algae issues. The LPS setting for the radion has the blues at 100%. Maybe I should switch my light settings to the AB+ and see if that helps.

 

Still trying to find some liverock from a local reefer. Have a few posts out so hopefully something will come up.

 

Hammer coral has had 2 of 3 heads closed up for awhile now. Frogspawn is losing colour and not opening up as much as it used to.

 

Algae is still growing in most places, but it hasn't come back where the snails have been. So I guess a small win?

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On 10/16/2020 at 11:36 AM, Llorgon said:

I should have 5 trochus, 5 astrea and 3 cerith snails coming

On 10/19/2020 at 12:59 PM, Llorgon said:

Already spending $100 including shipping for those snails.

That's a lot of snails to add all at once to such a small tank.  Hopefully fine given the amount of CUC you have now, but I would not add snails like this (a lot at once) again after this.

 

If you have *anyone* selling livestock close to you, buy from there...and buy 1-2 at a time from this point on. 👍

 

Focus on removing most of that algae by hand.  Work in small patches so you don't feel overwhelmed by not making progress....e.g. just clean one frag post at a time, or one 2"x2" patch on the rocks.  Don't just grab big hunks all over the tank randomly, IMO, or (e.g.) you'll spend an hour, step back to look at your progress, and it might not look like you did anything.  (Been there.  Done that.)

 

I've only seen one good video on algae – do what he says; do it how he does it:

 

(Forget about the anti-phosphate treatment...that's more particular to his tank.  Just talking about the algae removal method and guidance on snails.)

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+2 on just pulling it out by hand. When I do water changes I just take a 1/2 hose and suck the algae out, it seems to come loose pretty easy or I just pluck out the big patches by hand if they’re stuck on the rocks. 
 

I eliminated Dino’s along with GHA by small doses of microbacter 7 and algae barn ocean magik. I NEVER had coralline algae until I introduced these two components. Seems like the coralline out competes the GHA.
 

+2 on Nitrates being too low. I was able to get them up by using two broadcast feeds of reef roids a week in a 20 gallon tank. 

 

Every tank has their own phenomena but algae is a pain in the butt. I attribute most of my algae to LFS bought RO/DI. Switched to Walmart purple cap distilled and that helped a lot until I got my own 4 stage and haven’t had a problem with algae since. 
 

I may have skimmed over but are you using your own RO/DI or water bought from the LFS?

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4 hours ago, mcarroll said:

That's a lot of snails to add all at once to such a small tank.  Hopefully fine given the amount of CUC you have now, but I would not add snails like this (a lot at once) again after this.

 

If you have *anyone* selling livestock close to you, buy from there...and buy 1-2 at a time from this point on. 👍

 

Focus on removing most of that algae by hand.  Work in small patches so you don't feel overwhelmed by not making progress....e.g. just clean one frag post at a time, or one 2"x2" patch on the rocks.  Don't just grab big hunks all over the tank randomly, IMO, or (e.g.) you'll spend an hour, step back to look at your progress, and it might not look like you did anything.  (Been there.  Done that.)

 

I've only seen one good video on algae – do what he says; do it how he does it:

 

(Forget about the anti-phosphate treatment...that's more particular to his tank.  Just talking about the algae removal method and guidance on snails.)

My cuc was almost zero before adding the snails, but agree usually I wouldn't add that much at a time. But I bought what I could when I got a hold of them.

 

I have been removing some by hand every night. Just now it seems like I will be able to make some progress. There are a few patches on the back wall that don't have any new growth after a week. Which is exciting!

 

Interesting video. I have a mixture of really stuck gha and other patches that pull right off.

2 hours ago, I'm Batman said:

+2 on just pulling it out by hand. When I do water changes I just take a 1/2 hose and suck the algae out, it seems to come loose pretty easy or I just pluck out the big patches by hand if they’re stuck on the rocks. 
 

I eliminated Dino’s along with GHA by small doses of microbacter 7 and algae barn ocean magik. I NEVER had coralline algae until I introduced these two components. Seems like the coralline out competes the GHA.
 

+2 on Nitrates being too low. I was able to get them up by using two broadcast feeds of reef roids a week in a 20 gallon tank. 

 

Every tank has their own phenomena but algae is a pain in the butt. I attribute most of my algae to LFS bought RO/DI. Switched to Walmart purple cap distilled and that helped a lot until I got my own 4 stage and haven’t had a problem with algae since. 
 

I may have skimmed over but are you using your own RO/DI or water bought from the LFS?

I do the same thing with the hose during my water changes. I usually scrub with a brush and suck up as I go. Finally seeing some progress.

 

Never tried microbacter 7 and algae barn ocean magik. I will have to look into those. Would be nice to have more coralline algae in the tank.

 

I can dose some nitrogen to get my nitrates up a bit.

 

I have my own RO/DI filter.

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I also think I have found a decent sized piece of liverock from another reefers tank. Hopefully I can pick it up this weekend.

 

Once I have the new rock, I'm going to put the old rock into a 10 gallon and let the gha starve itself out. Or do some experiments and see if I can find a good way of getting rid of it.

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1 hour ago, Llorgon said:

Interesting video. I have a mixture of really stuck gha and other patches that pull right off.

Persistence will win out....you're on the right track.  👍

 

Thin out the rest of the area you're working in and the tougher parts can still be pulled at the end, even if it's little bits at a time.  Won't have anything else in the way.   If it's still too tough, just get it next time.

 

1 hour ago, Llorgon said:

I usually scrub with a brush and suck up as I go.

It's not the end of the world to do it (vacuuming as you go is cumbersome, but helps a lot), but scrubbing green algae CAN make it spread.  

 

Bubble algae is the most famous for this, but AFAIK all green algae have the capability to spread like that. 

 

That's the point of the "finger tweezer" method and the bowl of clean water in that video....avoid the spread of reproductive bits. 👍

 

 

On 9/30/2020 at 6:53 PM, Llorgon said:
Tank params are:
[....]
Nitrate: 0
Phosphate: 0.012
[....]

Sorry I missed this on my first reply.  (Some of this might be piling on now.)

 

Your phosphates are effectively zero, along with nitrates.  

 

On 9/30/2020 at 6:53 PM, Llorgon said:
Dosing/husbandry
  • Not dosing any elements. Params stay in check with water changes
  • 5 gal weekly water changes
  • Remove rocks and scrub in removed tank water during water change

You will need to stop doing everything you're currently doing to remove nutrients.  If you need to do water changes to keep mineral numbers in line (ca, alk, mg), then I would strongly recommend dosing the new water with nitrates and phosphates before adding it to the tank.

 

Do not remove your rocks from the tank anymore.  For however much cleanup you can accomplish, you're also setting back the development of life on the rock...a losing proposition.

 

On 9/30/2020 at 6:53 PM, Llorgon said:
Feeding
  • 1/4 cube various frozen foods every other day.
  • Sometimes flake/pellets instead of frozen
  • Occasionally feed corals, but a lot of it gets eaten by the fish before the corals finish.

>>>>>> Sounds like you have a lot more room to feed your fish a lot more food. <<<<<

 

Ramp up to 1/2 cube a day but eliminate the coral feedings and see how it goes for a few days or a week or so.

 

See if you can get up to a whole cube per day without issues....I suspect you can.

 

Ok to keep the pellets/flake, but IMO make them occasional.  

 

(You will be able to feed A LOT more frozen than dry or processed, BTW.)

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