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Reefer-begginer

Curiosity killed the cat on this one

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Reefer-begginer

so, in a unfortunate turn of events, my 36g tank had a massive coral die off.

I think this ones definitely on me, I started using reef roids daily ( didnt know I shouldn't ), as that causes my parameters to go haywire ( ammonia above 10ppm, nitrite about 5ppm, nitrates above 100ppm ).

The only living thing In the tank besides fish is a LTA.

RIP me

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Tired

Oh, that's awful. How much were you using? A cycled tank should be able to handle overfeeding with nothing worse than a nutrient spike. 

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Reefer-begginer
28 minutes ago, Tired said:

Oh, that's awful. How much were you using? A cycled tank should be able to handle overfeeding with nothing worse than a nutrient spike. 

Used around a Tablespoon of it ( I had a lot of acans and nps corals recently added so tried to get them to open up more )

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Tired

A tablespoon of reef roids a day? Yeah, I can, uh, kinda see where your problem came from. That would be too much to feed once a month. 

 

Reef Roids are really good for coral, but you have to give them a reasonable amount. It works best if you mix the dry roids with a bit of water, just enough to make it liquid, then pipette it directly onto corals with your flow turned off. You don't want to give the tank more than a pinch at a time, really. 

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Thrassian Atoll

Dang, I think I use like a teaspoon in my 130.4 once a week if I remember.

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Tamberav

Oh wow! Any more than a pinch in a nano and I get some diatoms going. It's smelly stuff and a pinch should get anything to open. When trying something new, whether it be coral food, amino, trace, carbon, etc... I always use half the recommended amount to start out for a few weeks and see how things respond. I could definitely see a tablespoon of this stuff crash a tank. So sorry 😞

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Break

That terrible to hear! But I could definitely see that much of the product causing a huge nutrient spike or crash given that it says on the container: "For every 100G of tank volume, mix one teaspoon of Reef-roids with some water from your tank."

 

Reef-roids is a solid product though and most reefers experience a disastrous crash every now and then - don't give up!

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Reefer-begginer
11 hours ago, Break said:

That terrible to hear! But I could definitely see that much of the product causing a huge nutrient spike or crash given that it says on the container: "For every 100G of tank volume, mix one teaspoon of Reef-roids with some water from your tank."

 

Reef-roids is a solid product though and most reefers experience a disastrous crash every now and then - don't give up!

It would probably help to say my 36g doesn't got a filter/sump on it, its been fine up til this little mishap

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Tired

That wouldn't have helped. Even if you had a sump to double the water volume, it wouldn't make much of a difference, considering you gave the tank 3 times what a 100gal tank should be given once a week. Did the corals at least like it before they died? I'd imagine they loved the first day of feeding. 

 

Can I ask why you fed that much? 

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Reefer-begginer
12 hours ago, Break said:

 

It wasn't intentional, I had spilled it into the cup with water when trying to measure it out 

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Tired

Then... why did you put the cup of way too much food into the tank, and not do a big water change to remove the extra? 

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mcarroll

Although products like reef roids are easy to overuse (and often are over used), I don't think this outcome was all that predictable...I'm not even sure this story makes sense yet.  

 

Strange that the fish survived IMO.  Even stranger than the corals succumbed.

 

At first blush, it seems like the problem should have been an oxygen dip accompanying a bacterial bloom.  

 

But that outcome should have affected the fish first...and maybe only the fish.  (The larger the O2 demand, the earlier they succumb.  More or less.)

 

My only guess why this wasn't the outcome is a lack of flow and/or bio-filtration to process the ammonia spike....which is uncommon to say the least.  But this tank has had some issues, correct?

 

A lack of flow would also make the situation in the tank more marginal overall for the corals.  So perhaps this was the proverbial straw that broke the corals back? 

 

People have feeding accidents...sometimes they are not so accidental and tanks just get brutally overfed.  

 

Regardless, a coral wipeout is not one of the likely outcomes....at least under otherwise normal/healthy circumstances.

 

Are you sure of that ammonia reading?

 

Were there any signs of ammonia irritation or difficulty breathing from your fish?  Any sign from your cleanup crew?

 

How is the tank's flow set up?

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Reefer-begginer
13 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Although products like reef roids are easy to overuse (and often are over used), I don't think this outcome was all that predictable...I'm not even sure this story makes sense yet.  

 

Strange that the fish survived IMO.  Even stranger than the corals succumbed.

 

At first blush, it seems like the problem should have been an oxygen dip accompanying a bacterial bloom.  

 

But that outcome should have affected the fish first...and maybe only the fish.  (The larger the O2 demand, the earlier they succumb.  More or less.)

 

My only guess why this wasn't the outcome is a lack of flow and/or bio-filtration to process the ammonia spike....which is uncommon to say the least.  But this tank has had some issues, correct?

 

A lack of flow would also make the situation in the tank more marginal overall for the corals.  So perhaps this was the proverbial straw that broke the corals back? 

 

People have feeding accidents...sometimes they are not so accidental and tanks just get brutally overfed.  

 

Regardless, a coral wipeout is not one of the likely outcomes....at least under otherwise normal/healthy circumstances.

 

Are you sure of that ammonia reading?

 

Were there any signs of ammonia irritation or difficulty breathing from your fish?  Any sign from your cleanup crew?

 

How is the tank's flow set up?

There's some burns on my clownfish's gills but that's all I can tell apart from the massive coral die off.

Flow is 2x Hydor 850s? I believe 

Ones facing towards the anemone I had and another towards the lps/nps and hammers I had

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Reefer-begginer
45 minutes ago, Tired said:

Then... why did you put the cup of way too much food into the tank, and not do a big water change to remove the extra? 

I thought nothing would happen to this extent, maybe a small spike as i have a skimmer that's rated for a 50g take on it ( does 600 gph for its pump ), thinking it would take out the excess matter.

Guess I was wrong 

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WV Reefer
53 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

...I'm not even sure this story makes sense yet.  

 

+1

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Tired

Is it possible that something already unhappy died of the additional stress, and, either by slime or by additional decay, set everything else off? 

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mcarroll
41 minutes ago, Reefer-begginer said:

There's some burns on my clownfish's gills but that's all I can tell apart from the massive coral die off.

Interesting.  How did you determine there are gill burns?  Is it something you could post a picture of?

 

42 minutes ago, Reefer-begginer said:

Flow is 2x Hydor 850s? I believe 

Ones facing towards the anemone I had and another towards the lps/nps and hammers I had

Hypothetically 1600 GPH total.  

 

Depending on the tank dimensions and other factors, 1800 seems like a decent amount of flow – but those are VERY soft powerheads so the GPH doesn't carry as much weight as some other powerheads....more or less the same type of flow that (e.g.) the Vortech'swere modeled after.  Might be worth looking a little closer than just GPH.

 

What are the tank's dimensions?  Can you also post a photo that shows the powerheads and corals?

 

48 minutes ago, Reefer-begginer said:

I thought nothing would happen to this extent, maybe a small spike as i have a skimmer that's rated for a 50g take on it ( does 600 gph for its pump ), thinking it would take out the excess matter.

Guess I was wrong 

Not that it's a panacea or anything, but the fact that you have a skimmer makes this even stranger.

 

How was skimmate production through all of this?  Surely there must have been some changes in amount and/or consistency?

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Reefer-begginer
22 minutes ago, Tired said:

Is it possible that something already unhappy died of the additional stress, and, either by slime or by additional decay, set everything else off? 

I mean I did have a arrow crab ( 5 inches ) get killed by a ruby mathrix crab ( i believe that's the crab i got ), but i doubt that would of done much in terms of ammonia released.

 

17 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Interesting.  How did you determine there are gill burns?  Is it something you could post a picture of?

 

Hypothetically 1600 GPH total.  

 

Depending on the tank dimensions and other factors, 1800 seems like a decent amount of flow – but those are VERY soft powerheads so the GPH doesn't carry as much weight as some other powerheads....more or less the same type of flow that (e.g.) the Vortech'swere modeled after.  Might be worth looking a little closer than just GPH.

 

What are the tank's dimensions?  Can you also post a photo that shows the powerheads and corals?

 

Not that it's a panacea or anything, but the fact that you have a skimmer makes this even stranger.

 

How was skimmate production through all of this?  Surely there must have been some changes in amount and/or consistency?

skimmate was heavy, as I emptied it out around 6? Times if I remember correctly, though I'm still taking it off and emptying it. Also you mentioned panacea? I don't think that would of done anything for my tank.

In regards to tank its a 36g bowfront 

Also, I dont think black lines on a clownfish's gills could be anything else unless there's a disease I'm not aware of that causes black gills 

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Tired

"Panacea" means "solution", so he was saying "not that it's a solution". 

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mcarroll
2 hours ago, Reefer-begginer said:

In regards to tank its a 36g bowfront 

A Bow Front is a tough shape to flow (and to light).  

 

Based on the pumps and the tank shape/dimensions I'm willing to suggest that flow might have been borderline and thus at least part of the cause.

 

This would affect corals and the biofilter.

 

Has alkalinity or salinity had any drops or spikes during this time?  Or have they both been stable?

 

Salinity and pH can both have a strong effect on bio-filter function.

 

Can you post a picture of the tank that includes the flow pumps?

 

 

2 hours ago, Reefer-begginer said:

Also, I dont think black lines on a clownfish's gills could be anything else unless there's a disease I'm not aware of that causes black gills 

Can you post a picture of the black lines you're talking about?

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mcarroll

Still thinking about this.....the protein skimmer must've saved the fish from O2 depletion.  

 

It's too bad it isn't more affordable to measure dissolved O2 levels...that would be awesome data to have right now.  (Tho there's a $100 model on Amazon now...that's about 50-100% cheaper than in the past when I've checked.  Still a lot of $ to monitor a stat that's usually of marginal value in a reef.)

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Reefer-begginer
1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

A Bow Front is a tough shape to flow (and to light).  

 

Based on the pumps and the tank shape/dimensions I'm willing to suggest that flow might have been borderline and thus at least part of the cause.

 

This would affect corals and the biofilter.

 

Has alkalinity or salinity had any drops or spikes during this time?  Or have they both been stable?

 

Salinity and pH can both have a strong effect on bio-filter function.

 

Can you post a picture of the tank that includes the flow pumps?

 

 

Can you post a picture of the black lines you're talking about?

If by that you mean the ph/salinity dips might of helped in that matter.

My salinty usually stays around 1.026/.27 and ph around 8.6/8.8

10 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Still thinking about this.....the protein skimmer must've saved the fish from O2 depletion.  

 

It's too bad it isn't more affordable to measure dissolved O2 levels...that would be awesome data to have right now.  (Tho there's a $100 model on Amazon now...that's about 50-100% cheaper than in the past when I've checked.  Still a lot of $ to monitor a stat that's usually of marginal value in a reef.)

whats that 02 checker your talking about?

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Reefer-begginer

http://imgur.com/gallery/WV0POIi

http://imgur.com/a/tedPbpw

As I'm still panicking on how to keep the remainder of my corals alive, I'm thinking of moving them into the 125g until these levels go down.

( also I bought a AquaTop filter to help with my predictucment ). I also thought my pseudochromis died but I found him just swimming next to my clownfish ).

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mcarroll
1 hour ago, Reefer-begginer said:

My salinty usually stays around 1.026/.27 and ph around 8.6/8.8

8.6+ is very high for pH....any chance you meant 7.6/7.8?  (Most tanks run 7.6-7.8 with typical indoor CO2 levels.)

 

Mostly the question was whether they were stable during the period of time that began when the "over feeding" started.

 

1 hour ago, Reefer-begginer said:

whats that 02 checker your talking about?

image.thumb.png.627677047052dc20336dd48d82c43d62.png

Mostly just a curiosity...wouldn't be really be that useful outside of circumstances like this.

 

1 hour ago, Reefer-begginer said:

Flow looks dead judging by the corals that show up in-frame of this movie.  :eek:

 

(Second link has no photo.)

 

1 hour ago, Reefer-begginer said:

As I'm still panicking on how to keep the remainder of my corals alive, I'm thinking of moving them into the 125g until these levels go down.

Probably not a bad idea as long as there's stronger flow and decent light...and the chemistry isn't TOO different in terms of ca, alk, mg and salinity.  (Ideally those should be VERY close.)

 

1 hour ago, Reefer-begginer said:

I also thought my pseudochromis died but I found him just swimming next to my clownfish

Excellent! 

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Reefer-begginer
23 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

8.6+ is very high for pH....any chance you meant 7.6/7.8?  (Most tanks run 7.6-7.8 with typical indoor CO2 levels.)

 

Mostly the question was whether they were stable during the period of time that began when the "over feeding" started.

 

image.thumb.png.627677047052dc20336dd48d82c43d62.pngimageproxy.php?img=&key=a72cef6f73776f2b

Mostly just a curiosity...wouldn't be really be that useful outside of circumstances like this.

 

Flow looks dead judging by the corals that show up in-frame of this movie.  :eek:

 

(Second link has no photo.)

 

Probably not a bad idea as long as there's stronger flow and decent light...and the chemistry isn't TOO different in terms of ca, alk, mg and salinity.  (Ideally those should be VERY close.)

 

Excellent! 

Nope. I use 8.6 water in both my tanks, and i would think my 125 would have a bigger dose of all those things as there's nothing in there that takes up those nutrients ( unless you count shrimps, snails and hermits ), im unsure of how the tank would go as the lighting on my 36 is 2x AI Prime 32hds, vs my 1 1.0 Fluval marine light ( 36" ) thats just a tad to small for a 6ft tank xD ).

And yea the 125 has a pond mag 12 ( 1200gph ) return pump and a hydor 1150 on it, i want to add another pump but with there being no coral I don't see much use in that other than stirring up food the coral banded shrimp, Scarlett hermits and reef hermits didn't get to ( i forget what the giant hermit crabs are called, they aren't hairy legged hermits, their bodies are almost silver line with black stripes )

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