Restarting a 125g tank

[Reefer-begginer]

how would I go about or even start with a complete reset?

[debbeach13]

What is going on that you feel it needs to be restarted? Are you thinking of completely emptying it to clean it? Can you post a picture? Is it over run with algae, does it have any livestock, how long has it been running, what are the water parameters? With out some details I am sure any one knows what to suggest.

[Reefer-begginer]

33 minutes ago, debbeach13 said:

What is going on that you feel it needs to be restarted? Are you thinking of completely emptying it to clean it? Can you post a picture? Is it over run with algae, does it have any livestock, how long has it been running, what are the water parameters? With out some details I am sure any one knows what to suggest.

Constant deaths, brown algae growth ( even with lighting only on for 3 hours a day, parameters seem to be so low that my Sera test kit can't measure most but can measure some

Salinity 1.019

Ph 8.6

Ammonia 0

Nitrite 0

Nitrates 5

Phosphates 1

Seems to have Dino growing on the rocks which is what I'm sure is killing my snails as Ich/velvet doesn't affect inverts.

Cleaner shrimp is molting more frequently ( once a week it feels like ) and a slew of other issues I can't seem to point into the tank.

 

[debbeach13]

How long has the tank been set up? 

[Clown79]

42 minutes ago, Reefer-begginer said:

Constant deaths, brown algae growth ( even with lighting only on for 3 hours a day, parameters seem to be so low that my Sera test kit can't measure most but can measure some

Salinity 1.019

Ph 8.6

Ammonia 0

Nitrite 0

Nitrates 5

Phosphates 1

Seems to have Dino growing on the rocks which is what I'm sure is killing my snails as Ich/velvet doesn't affect inverts.

Cleaner shrimp is molting more frequently ( once a week it feels like ) and a slew of other issues I can't seem to point into the tank.

 

Your salinity is very low.

Reef tanks should be 1.025 or 1.026

 

Resetting the tank won't get rid of dino's, many have attempted that and even bleached the tank before rebuilding only to have them return within a month or 2.

 

Get good test kits.

 

Is your phos 1 or 0.01?

 

To get rid of ich/velvet - go fishless for 9 weeks. Having no fish kills the parasite.

 

Treat your fish in a qt and don't return them until the 9 weeks are done.

 

Dino's- is from lack of biodiversity and too sterile a tank. Add tisbe pods(u need a decent amount to seed a tank), phyto dose a few times a week to keep them fed and reproducing.

 

Reducing waterchange size/frequency can help with increasing nutrients which is what you want when you have dino's.

 

Cleaner shrimp molting often is usually a sign of parameter issues, particularly alk/ca.

[Reefer-begginer]

28 minutes ago, debbeach13 said:

How long has the tank been set up? 

Tanks been up for 6 months

[Reefer-begginer]

24 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

Your salinity is very low.

Reef tanks should be 1.025 or 1.026

 

Resetting the tank won't get rid of dino's, many have attempted that and even bleached the tank before rebuilding only to have them return within a month or 2.

 

Get good test kits.

 

Is your phos 1 or 0.01?

 

To get rid of ich/velvet - go fishless for 9 weeks. Having no fish kills the parasite.

 

Treat your fish in a qt and don't return them until the 9 weeks are done.

 

Dino's- is from lack of biodiversity and too sterile a tank. Add tisbe pods(u need a decent amount to seed a tank), phyto dose a few times a week to keep them fed and reproducing.

 

Reducing waterchange size/frequency can help with increasing nutrients which is what you want when you have dino's.

 

Cleaner shrimp molting often is usually a sign of parameter issues, particularly alk/ca.

Tanks not meant to be a reef, its meant to be a FoWlR tank, but I went with like a mixed folder reef type of tank. Where the only corals id get are softies like xenia and Kenya for food for the butterflys/angels i was keeping 

[Reefer-begginer]

And yes the Phosphates are at 1

[Clown79]

48 minutes ago, Reefer-begginer said:

Tanks not meant to be a reef, its meant to be a FoWlR tank, but I went with like a mixed folder reef type of tank. Where the only corals id get are softies like xenia and Kenya for food for the butterflys/angels i was keeping 

Even for a FOWLR 1.022-1.024

1.019 is really low.

 

Fish in the ocean live in a salinity of 1.026, thats naturally seawater level.

[Reefer-begginer]

49 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

Even for a FOWLR 1.022-1.024

1.019 is really low.

 

Fish in the ocean live in a salinity of 1.026, thats naturally seawater level.

I know, but I was keeping it low to help with the ice issues

[Clown79]

16 minutes ago, Reefer-begginer said:

I know, but I was keeping it low to help with the ice issues

Hyposalinity isn't safe for all fish, inverts, pods, corals.

 

There is a process to hyposalinity in order for it to properly work. And its most safely done in a separate tank not the display tank to treat the fish.

 

To get rid of it completely in a tank- fallow

[Reefer-begginer]

9 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

Hyposalinity isn't safe for all fish, inverts, pods, corals.

 

There is a process to hyposalinity in order for it to properly work. And its most safely done in a separate tank not the display tank to treat the fish.

 

To get rid of it completely in a tank- fallow

I don't consider 1.019 hypo, hypo for me is 1.09 which is what my QT is

[mcarroll]

Restarting shouldn't be needed...unless you started with dead rock and want to restart with real live rock.  That would be a worthy restart IMO.

 

Otherwise hunker down and weather the ugly phase like everyone else.  (It'll happen again after a restart anyway.)

 

If the fish are out of the picture, it will be zero stress....

 

Not to be critical needlessly, but if you made any mistake it was adding so many fish so quickly.  

 

2-3 months from now things in the tank should be quite different – the longer you wait and let the rock and corals get established, the better.  

 

Then when you begin adding fish again, don't be in a hurry....add ONE.  See how it goes for a month or two.  Make any adjustments needed....could be more algae/more need for snails, or whatever else comes up.  Then add anther ONE fish.  And another 1-2 month wait for observation/reaction.  Repeat until the tank is stocked.  If anything comes up with one of the fish along the way, you've automatically spared all the future additions from going through it.

[Reefer-begginer]

1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

Restarting shouldn't be needed...unless you started with dead rock and want to restart with real live rock.  That would be a worthy restart IMO.

 

Otherwise hunker down and weather the ugly phase like everyone else.  (It'll happen again after a restart anyway.)

 

If the fish are out of the picture, it will be zero stress....

 

Not to be critical needlessly, but if you made any mistake it was adding so many fish so quickly.  

 

2-3 months from now things in the tank should be quite different – the longer you wait and let the rock and corals get established, the better.  

 

Then when you begin adding fish again, don't be in a hurry....add ONE.  See how it goes for a month or two.  Make any adjustments needed....could be more algae/more need for snails, or whatever else comes up.  Then add anther ONE fish.  And another 1-2 month wait for observation/reaction.  Repeat until the tank is stocked.  If anything comes up with one of the fish along the way, you've automatically spared all the future additions from going through it.

The thing is I don't actually know if the rock I used was dead or alive 

[Murphs_Reef]

What did it look like? Was it white ? 

[seabass]

15 minutes ago, Reefer-begginer said:

The thing is I don't actually know if the rock I used was dead or alive 

After 6 months, it's alive (considered live rock).  Although, if it wasn't taken from the ocean, it still probably doesn't contain a lot of non-bacterial life.

 

Dinos are tough (but not impossible) to get rid of.  But I'm assuming that dinos are just one of several problems.  Clown79 is right in that it's possible that dinos can come back after a reboot; and without predators, they may be free to bloom again.  If I just had dinos, I would probably try to deal with them, although it's even possible that you have cyano instead.  If it's cyano, I'd definitely deal with it it versus rebooting.

 

But I also get your desire for a fresh start.  We can help you with that if that's really the route that you want to go down.  It could be a complete reboot, a thorough cleaning, or a change in maintenance.  There isn't just one right plan.

 

We'd like to see what you are dealing with (no matter how ugly it may be).  That might help us better direct you.

[Reefer-begginer]

5 minutes ago, seabass said:

After 6 months, it's alive (considered live rock).  Although, if it wasn't taken from the ocean, it still probably doesn't contain a lot of non-bacterial life.

 

Dinos are tough (but not impossible) to get rid of.  But I'm assuming that dinos are just one of several problems.  Clown79 is right in that it's possible that dinos can come back after a reboot; and without predators, they may be free to bloom again.  If I just had dinos, I would probably try to deal with them, although it's even possible that you have cyano instead.  If it's cyano, I'd definitely deal with it it versus rebooting.

 

But I also get your desire for a fresh start.  We can help you with that if that's really the route that you want to go down.  It could be a complete reboot, a thorough cleaning, or a change in maintenance.  There isn't just one right plan.

 

We'd like to see what you are dealing with (no matter how ugly it may be).  That might help us better direct you.

Whats the difference between cyano and dino?

20 minutes ago, Grimes said:

What did it look like? Was it white ? 

Some was white, some is Coralie rock, some brown rock its varied 

[seabass]

3 minutes ago, Reefer-begginer said:

Some was white, some is Coralie rock, some brown rock its varied 

If it wasn't artificially colored, I'd say that at least some of it was live rock.

 

5 minutes ago, Reefer-begginer said:

Whats the difference between cyano and dino?

Sometimes it's hard for even experienced aquarists to visually tell the difference.  In other cases, it's more clear.  Visual inspection under a microscope is often used to determine which one it is.  Otherwise, there are other tests which can be done:

On 8/8/2019 at 12:47 AM, mcarroll said:

Take a sample of the algae with some tank water in a vial.  Shake vigorously until the sample is homogenized.  Leave the vial under your lights for up to an hour or more.  If the algae regroups into a mass, then it's some form of dino.  Diatoms and cyano won't do that.

[Clown79]

9 minutes ago, Reefer-begginer said:

Whats the difference between cyano and dino?

Some was white, some is Coralie rock, some brown rock its varied 

Cyano is usually caused from excess nutrients and grows in low flow areas. Treatment is usually increasing flow and reducing nutrients, changing something in maintenance.

 

 Dino is the opposite. They flourish in low nutrient, low biodiversity environments, they actually spread faster with increasing flow and are difficult to get back into dormancy.

There is a lot more about dino's but its far too in depth to type out.

 

Proper diagnosis is required to treat the issue.

 

[seabass]

4 hours ago, Clown79 said:

Cyano is usually caused from excess nutrients organics and grows in low flow areas. Treatment is usually increasing flow and reducing nutrients organics, changing something in maintenance.

Fixed that for you.  Organics are the primary concern with cyanobacteria, not inorganic nutrients.  Flow can help your filtration remove the organics.  Increasing maintenance can help too.  Improper sand bed maintenance is often a contributor to excess organics (which often results in cyano).

[Reefer-begginer]

2 hours ago, Clown79 said:

Cyano is usually caused from excess nutrients and grows in low flow areas. Treatment is usually increasing flow and reducing nutrients, changing something in maintenance.

 

 Dino is the opposite. They flourish in low nutrient, low biodiversity environments, they actually spread faster with increasing flow and are difficult to get back into dormancy.

There is a lot more about dino's but its far too in depth to type out.

 

Proper diagnosis is required to treat the issue.

 

Clown are you on my ich post as well? You've seen my tank and the rock work if you are in the ice post

[Reefer-begginer]

On 9/2/2020 at 4:39 PM, seabass said:

Fixed that for you.  Organics are the primary concern with cyanobacteria, not inorganic nutrients.  Flow can help your filtration remove the organics.  Increasing maintenance can help too.  Improper sand bed maintenance is often a contributor to excess organics (which often results in cyano).

I just realized what you mean by cyano ( red slime algae ). My algae( if it is ) is brown and stringy mostly, while I can wipe it off with ease, I'm hesitant to do it as I don't want it to spread quicker if it is Dino ( ill do the test before work tomorrow to see if it is dino ).

Also with all the meds in the tank I've done, I haven't done a water change in about 2 months ( herbal ich says it may need to be dosed for 5 weeks ( or 6 in my case ).

I should probably do a water change in the 125 shortly to help reduce some of the spores from the ich/velvet unless that's ill advised?

[seabass]

51 minutes ago, Reefer-begginer said:

herbal ich

 

[I'm Batman]

Did somebody say Dino’s?

[Reefer-begginer]

6 hours ago, I'm Batman said:

Did somebody say Dino’s?

Yes