Ich treatment not working

[Reefer-begginer]

Hey. So for the past 3 weeks ( pretty much 4 now ) I have been dosing my DT with kordon Herbal Ich attack. As I dont have a QT to help with this that would fit all my fish, I need something else thats more potent that won't kill my invertebrates in my 125g that can also help kill and rid ich from my tank.

I was thinking of doing a full water change ( 125g worth and just letting it sit for 3 hours full of freshwater to kill any ich that is sitting in the water column but I know what won't help with my fish having ich issues.

I want to do something but I have no idea what else to do. I do have fritz ichattack ( i think is its name ) but I'd have to remove my cleaner shirmps and peppermint shrimps to use them and they aren't the easiest things to catch in a big tank

[Hazy]

The only way your gonna get rid of ick is to treat it with the toxic stuff sadly... I’ve tried the herbal stuff and it’s a gimmick.  if the stuff is designed to not kill your shrimp inverts then it won’t kill the ick invert. 
 

that being said, the easiest way to catch shrimp is to get an empty plastic water bottle, fill it with tank water and put it at the bottom of your tank (you light need a small rock to go inside to keep it at the bottom.) 

then just place the best smelling food option you have inside the bottle and wait for a shrimp to go inside. Once they are inside, you can scoop the fish net over the bottle entrance so they are stuck then bring it up and but them in a different place till the ick is gone. 

[Reefer-begginer]

1 hour ago, Hazy said:

The only way your gonna get rid of ick is to treat it with the toxic stuff sadly... I’ve tried the herbal stuff and it’s a gimmick.  if the stuff is designed to not kill your shrimp inverts then it won’t kill the ick invert. 
 

that being said, the easiest way to catch shrimp is to get an empty plastic water bottle, fill it with tank water and put it at the bottom of your tank (you light need a small rock to go inside to keep it at the bottom.) 

then just place the best smelling food option you have inside the bottle and wait for a shrimp to go inside. Once they are inside, you can scoop the fish net over the bottle entrance so they are stuck then bring it up and but them in a different place till the ick is gone. 

What med would you recommend to help the fish kinda quickly 

[TerraIncognita]

28 minutes ago, Reefer-begginer said:

What med would you recommend to help the fish kinda quickly 

How many fish do you have in that 125?

 

Do they ALL have ich symptoms?

 

Might be easier to just go buy a 10 or 20G QT.

 

I'd be worried about more than just my shrimp in that DT. medicating can cause all kinds of things to suddenly happen.

 

I think all the medicated ich treatments work about the same. Ive heard good things about Hikari's Ich-X. Never used it though myself.

 

[Tired]

I had kordon herbal work in freshwater, but freshwater ich and saltwater ich aren't the same thing. 

 

Do NOT fill your entire tank with freshwater. You'll kill all your beneficial bacteria and microorganisms, and might not even get rid of the ich. And that would kill your shrimp, too, plus it would more than likely sicken and kill your fish.

 

Bottle traps work great for shrimp. Cut the top 1/5 or so off a bottle, remove the cap, and stick it into the bottle, backwards, so it's like a funnel. Poke holes all over it for ventilation, put food inside, lay it down near the shrimp, and wait. They go inside and can't find their way back out very well. 

[TerraIncognita]

5 minutes ago, Tired said:

Do NOT fill your entire tank with freshwater. You'll kill all your beneficial bacteria and microorganisms, and might not even get rid of the ich. And that would kill your shrimp, too, plus it would more than likely sicken and kill your fish.

 

Idk if it kills the BB actually. I've never heard that.

 

Found this:

 

Martin Moe discovered in the '70s (I believe it was) that switching nitrifying bacteria back and forth from freshwater to saltwater only damages the bacteria by about 30%. I'm not sure how he came to that number, but my own experimentations have come to the conclusion that switching the bacteria back and forth from freshwater to saltwater damages them "very little". If I'm looking to kill off attached corals or something on live rock, I'll toss it into RO water in a tub with a powerhead and let it percolate for a week, then I'll do a 100% waterchange with RO and salt it up over 2 or 3 days, and taking just that short period of time, I don't see any blip in ammonia. Works well.

 

[Tamberav]

6 hours ago, Reefer-begginer said:

Hey. So for the past 3 weeks ( pretty much 4 now ) I have been dosing my DT with kordon Herbal Ich attack. As I dont have a QT to help with this that would fit all my fish, I need something else thats more potent that won't kill my invertebrates in my 125g that can also help kill and rid ich from my tank.

I was thinking of doing a full water change ( 125g worth and just letting it sit for 3 hours full of freshwater to kill any ich that is sitting in the water column but I know what won't help with my fish having ich issues.

I want to do something but I have no idea what else to do. I do have fritz ichattack ( i think is its name ) but I'd have to remove my cleaner shirmps and peppermint shrimps to use them and they aren't the easiest things to catch in a big tank

There is no reef safe med that irradicates ich. If it is safe for the reef, it is safe for ich. 

 

If you can't qt, then all you can do is try to lower the numbers of the parasite and hope the fish can fight it off but it will still be present in low numbers and could flare up at any time. Basically you use UV + good food + maybe something like peroxide dosing (which SPS and shrimp hate, may kill shrimp). 

 

Freshwater will not kill all your ich. The cysts are likely deep within the pours of your rock as well and the freshwater will not penetrate every micro surface, not even close. Putting everything in freshwater would do nothing but kill everything you don't want to. 

 

You could try buying the biggest POND UV you can but you need to get flow right and this will set you back probably a couple hundred dollars. 

 

Sorry but this is just how it is with fish disease and why many advocate QT everything before it goes into your tank.... because it is a huge headache to pull them all out and treat.

 

 

 

 

[Reefer-begginer]

4 fish ( was 6 ) lost 2 tomato clowns this morning and all still have ich on them

I am also curious how the foxface and raccoon have yet to contract ich ( i have seen no spots on them in these 4 weeks )

[Tired]

They have ich, but their immune systems are fighting it well enough that it's not yet visible. That doesn't mean it isn't affecting them. 

 

You need to get those fish into quarantine tanks that you can treat. A 20 or 30 gal tank, or a big rubbermaid tub, will work. They need proper treatment, right now, or the rest of them are going to die miserable deaths.

[Reefer-begginer]

22 minutes ago, Tired said:

They have ich, but their immune systems are fighting it well enough that it's not yet visible. That doesn't mean it isn't affecting them. 

 

You need to get those fish into quarantine tanks that you can treat. A 20 or 30 gal tank, or a big rubbermaid tub, will work. They need proper treatment, right now, or the rest of them are going to die miserable deaths.

I figured as much, I'm just shocked that the fish have lived a month with it with no signs of stress or anything. Just seems odd to me that they don't even scratch themselves ( i mean the emperor and coral beauty angel )

[Tamberav]

If you are not going to pull the fish then peroxide dosing is worth a shot. I suggest reading ALL of this. It is experimental.

 

https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/peroxide-h2o2-dosing-for-parasites-in-reef-tank.725/

[Reefer-begginer]

Update

Emperor angel died 5 minutes ago

[Tired]

I would say that your fish are very stressed and aren't showing it. Prey animals can't be relied on to show distress, as showing distress will get them targeted by a predator. 

 

CATCH THOSE FISH. Do something! A freshwater dip may buy them a tiny bit of relief while you go and get medication. Don't just sit there and watch them die, the herbal medication is obviously not looking. 

[TerraIncognita]

1 hour ago, Reefer-begginer said:

Update

Emperor angel died 5 minutes ago

If you want them to live,

 

yeah catch them and get them in a bucket with an air stone and tank water and some meds ASAP.

[Reefer-begginer]

16 minutes ago, TerraIncognita said:

If you want them to live,

 

yeah catch them and get them in a bucket with an air stone and tank water and some meds ASAP.

I have them in a 14g hypo tank atm, I had moved them last night and I dont know if thats what killed the emperor as I guess I lowered it to 1.015 from 1.020 to quick?

[Humblefish]

25 minutes ago, Reefer-begginer said:

I have them in a 14g hypo tank atm, I had moved them last night and I dont know if thats what killed the emperor as I guess I lowered it to 1.015 from 1.020 to quick?

Most fish can handle rapid drops in salinity (but not rises).

 

Do you have any photos of the fish showing the white dots? If you are dealing with Velvet here, hyposalinity isn't going to help. Hypo only treats Ich & flukes.

[Reefer-begginer]

14 minutes ago, Humblefish said:

Most fish can handle rapid drops in salinity (but not rises).

 

Do you have any photos of the fish showing the white dots? If you are dealing with Velvet here, hyposalinity isn't going to help. Hypo only treats Ich & flukes.

The only fish that was showing that was the emperor, the coral beauty, foxface and raccoon butterfly show no dots

[TerraIncognita]

18 minutes ago, Humblefish said:

Most fish can handle rapid drops in salinity (but not rises).

What's the deal with Freshwater Dips then? Wouldn't that sudden drop in Salinity then BIG increase cause stress? is it really a good idea? I've only ever done it once to try to treat ich as well and the fish died like 20 minutes later.... I've never really tried it since.

 

18 minutes ago, Humblefish said:

Do you have any photos...

+1

 

[Reefer-begginer]

http://imgur.com/gallery/ZDkWwXJ this was a while back, but its still the same for the emperor( just alot more white spots vs how this guy looks )

[TerraIncognita]

yeah that is ich. Sorry :(.

 

Again just do what you can. There's only so much you can do. I hope you can save some.

 

Honestly sometimes it is too late....

 

QT's are worth it, on the worse side of this you're going to lose just about the cost in fish as a $180 Fluval Evo that can be an easy QT costs.

[Reefer-begginer]

I got the 14g IM nuvo running rn

its the only tank I have that I can use for QT as my 36g is my coral tank

[Reefer-begginer]

can't really setup a 3rd tank as I have 2 atm 

36g coral tank 

And this 125g 

[Tired]

Quarantine tanks aren't permanent. You fill it with water, a pump, a heater, and some bio-filtration (a sponge or rock rubble or the like from an established tank), you keep the fish in it until they're definitely healthy, then you take it down. 

 

Get those fish out, treat them, and leave your tank fish-free until the ich dies out. You can read in this forum about how long it takes to let all the ich die out of a tank with no fish.

[Reefer-begginer]

72 days I know

[Reefer-begginer]

Does metroplex do anything for ich or is that a wasted med?