Are leathers toxic to other leathers?

[EPMH59]

I’m asking because I very recently had a toadstool frag die off on me. It was very healthy, then suddenly closed (Which I assumed to be a normal shed) then never opened up again and slowly dwindled away more and more by the day. My CUC then had a meal after it died. 
 

My water parameters are perfect, the rest of my tank (Fish, corals, and inverts) are all thriving, including my LPS, but this one coral very rapidly died off, and I’m sitting confused and trying to figure out why.

 

So I think back, and the only thing that changed that I can trace it back to, is that I recently (about 2 weeks ago) added a Sinularia finger leather to the tank. About a day or two after, the Toadstool closed, never to open again, and eventually die off. I can’t help but think that the two are tied together. I figured it would be fine, same way that it’s okay to put Euphyllia together, but now I’m thinking that I indirectly killed the Toadstool by putting the Finger leather in the tank.

[Clown79]

There is chemical warfare so its best to use carbon when housing leathers.

 

I have had multiple leathers in a tank with no losses.

 

[DISQUALIFIED-QQ]

I had a Devil's Hand fall to a similar fate at work...

 

Anecdotally, I have heard that people that have Sinularia use carbon to help combat the chemical warfare. These chemical signals are steroidal compounds. These compounds from what I heard will affect all corals in various ways and degrees. Fortunately, any old activated carbon will work. I use the 100g sachets of Fluval bit carbon. They come in a pack of 3. They're normally designed for canister filters but there's no aquarium police to stop me.

 

My tank has several leather colonies, Lobo, Sarco, and Sinularia. I did have a long polyp Sarco that was shriveled for many months, but I didn't give up on it. Nor my CUC got to it. After some time it came back and now its stalk has gotten a little longer. Water changes you know?

[EPMH59]

4 hours ago, Clown79 said:

There is chemical warfare so its best to use carbon when housing leathers.

 

I have had multiple leathers in a tank with no losses.

 

 

3 hours ago, Diamonds x Pearls said:

I had a Devil's Hand fall to a similar fate at work...

 

Anecdotally, I have heard that people that have Sinularia use carbon to help combat the chemical warfare. These chemical signals are steroidal compounds. These compounds from what I heard will affect all corals in various ways and degrees. Fortunately, any old activated carbon will work. I use the 100g sachets of Fluval bit carbon. They come in a pack of 3. They're normally designed for canister filters but there's no aquarium police to stop me.

 

My tank has several leather colonies, Lobo, Sarco, and Sinularia. I did have a long polyp Sarco that was shriveled for many months, but I didn't give up on it. Nor my CUC got to it. After some time it came back and now its stalk has gotten a little longer. Water changes you know?

That’s what makes this even more confusing. I run carbon 24/7 as is, so that wasn’t the problem. So chemical warfare shouldn’t be an issue, and on top of that, the toadstool was not really close to the Sinularia at all. It was closer to a Zoa cluster actually, and even then there was definitely some distance. 
 

This was my first and only fatality, and all my other corals, including my more sensitive LPS, are all thriving, when leathers are supposed to be extremely hearty. 
 

My parameters are all fine as well and nothing is really out of whack.

 

Nitrates: 0

Nitrites: 0

Ammonia: 0

Calcium: 440

Alkalinity: 10.7 dkh

[Tired]

Is your carbon regularly changed out? It'll fill up with stuff pretty quick. 

 

You should get your nitrates up, and probably your phosphates as well. Corals need nitrates and phosphates to grow and thrive, and will eventually starve if kept in water that's too clean.

 

Was anything in stinging range of the coral? Some LPS have very long sweepers. 

[Clown79]

4 hours ago, Tired said:

Is your carbon regularly changed out? It'll fill up with stuff pretty quick. 

 

You should get your nitrates up, and probably your phosphates as well. Corals need nitrates and phosphates to grow and thrive, and will eventually starve if kept in water that's too clean.

 

Was anything in stinging range of the coral? Some LPS have very long sweepers. 

This^ 

 

Could be from lack of nutrients or a stinging coral.

 

Carbon is best used in smaller quantities and changed every 2 weeks to stay effective.

 

Another possibility is, it wasn't healthy. Corals can last a while before they can't survive anymore.

 

 

[mcarroll]

On 8/20/2020 at 11:31 AM, EPMH59 said:

I’m asking because I very recently had a toadstool frag die off on me. It was very healthy, then suddenly closed (Which I assumed to be a normal shed) then never opened up again and slowly dwindled away more and more by the day. My CUC then had a meal after it died. 
 

My water parameters are perfect, the rest of my tank (Fish, corals, and inverts) are all thriving, including my LPS, but this one coral very rapidly died off, and I’m sitting confused and trying to figure out why.

 

So I think back, and the only thing that changed that I can trace it back to, is that I recently (about 2 weeks ago) added a Sinularia finger leather to the tank. About a day or two after, the Toadstool closed, never to open again, and eventually die off. I can’t help but think that the two are tied together. I figured it would be fine, same way that it’s okay to put Euphyllia together, but now I’m thinking that I indirectly killed the Toadstool by putting the Finger leather in the tank.

I've never even read of corals actually being affected by leather coral byproducts.  As far as I know it's only a theory.  Leathers release turpenoids, true.  But when?  And what effect are they actually supposed to have on other corals?  

 

I've seen a lot of leather corals in a lot of reef tanks, and never noticed a problem that wasn't explained by all the normal things that go wrong in a tank....alk spikes, nutrient dips, nipping critters, etc.

 

On 8/20/2020 at 11:31 AM, EPMH59 said:

My water parameters are perfect

I know this isn't going to sound fair, but when someone says their water is perfect (you may be surprised at how frequently it happens) it almost always means there is a water quality issue.

 

If you think about it, this makes sense though.  The concept of "perfect water" is one you only have when you're first starting out.  Folks already in the hobby know (for the most part) that there is no such thing as "perfect water".

 

All we have is the baseline of natural sea water.  A baseline doesn't represent a perfect set of parameters though.  

 

In fact, the baseline for "natural sea water" is actually more of an ocean-wide average...not necessarily what you'd find on any given wild reef.

 

IMO

Find out how much light you're putting into the tank, at least for reference.  But also stop doing whatever you're dong to lower nutrient levels.  For now, consider these your minimum levels:  5-10 ppm Nitrate.  0.10 ppm Phosphate.  This will help get your tank established, but won't be 100% necessary in the medium term or long term.