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Beginnerreeftanker

Cleaner shrimp is acting weird...

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Beginnerreeftanker

Hey everybody, my cleaner shrimp recently lost a few antenna, they looked bent and now they broke off.  I’ve read that this is ok and they grow back, but I haven’t seen his molt anywhere if he did.  Should I see that?  Also, he’s been staring in the same area unless the lights are off, which he’ll go around the back of the tank a bit.  Is this normal, as aren’t they supposed to roam?  My fish haven’t let him clean them yet, could it be a depressing state?  Lastly, I haven’t seen him eat, I mean he’s been looking and stomping on my Xenia but that hasn’t happened in a while, thought he may be cleaning it off.  When will he eat, or is he just taking stuff off the walls where he usually hangs out and I do not no about it... crap my royal gramma just went up to it and nipped at its antenna. shoot is that the problem?  He’s been on the wall looking like he’s trying to escape, and he’s been jerking around sometimes randomly.  Can someone please help?! 

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TerraIncognita

seem like he's trying to molt. when he does that's when his antenna will grow back, they don't grow back otherwise.

 

give him cave or corner or somewhere to hide so he can do his thing

 

If he feel constantly threatened and in danger he will not do a proper molt and WILL die if he is interrupted. mid molt. I.e. fish picking at him. Just fyi. He become super soft when he molts and will try to hide for a day or 2

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Beginnerreeftanker

He has a cave, I guess the antenna should not be worried about right now.  There’s a big cave in the center, and I think there are some hiding spots; actually I know.  How can I prevent him from being threatened?  Will one of those fish boxes where you acclimate them work?  I could put my gramma in there and hope that the shrimp will do it’s thing.  

9B47B7EF-F1FF-4627-93BE-4D986B7B9850.jpeg

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Beginnerreeftanker

My questions is basically this: is my shrimp going to die

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Tired

Depends on what's wrong. It might be that your gramma is attacking him- they're territorial. If the gramma has claimed that cave, he may be chasing the shrimp out. Can you add somewhere for him to hide? Separating the gramma might help a little at first, but when you put it back, it's going to bother the shrimp again. 

 

What size is the tank? 

 

What have you tried to feed the shrimp? 

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coralline-adam

Feed him directly with a turkey baster.

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coralline-adam

In my experience they do not like to hide so much, more like to perch on things and swim around. It sounds like you should focus on getting him some food. 
My shrimp loves these: Hikari Crab Cuisine Rapidly Sinking Sticks for Bottom Feeders & Crustaceans 

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TerraIncognita
2 minutes ago, coralline-adam said:

In my experience they do not like to hide so much, more like to perch on things and swim around. It sounds like you should focus on getting him some food. 
My shrimp loves these: Hikari Crab Cuisine Rapidly Sinking Sticks for Bottom Feeders & Crustaceans 

True, I have a cleaner shrimp that is a very bold guy, he will run right on top of my carpet nem during feeding to try to nab a piece that's stuck there.

 

However if you read his post, this isn't really the situation of a happy shrimp established having no worries about life......

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coralline-adam

Yeah something is up. I think Tired is on to something -- maybe being hazed by the gamma 

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TerraIncognita
1 hour ago, Beginnerreeftanker said:

My questions is basically this: is my shrimp going to die

I edited my post here. Because it was too intense.

 

The gramma took the cave, and your shrimp has resorted to the back corner as his home. Each animal in your tank besides maybe snails and hermit crabs (because they carry their home on their back) will have a spot they consider "safe"

 

It looks like your shrimp can't find a safe spot. Your Gramma is biting and nipping him, which is a TERRITORIAL STRUGGLE.

 

You literally typed it in your post and watched it unfold. It's a very obvious sign between two animals. "I don't like that you're here, please leave I'm going to nip you". No where in nature to Gramma naturally hunt and feed on Cleaner Shrimp. It's not a dietary thing. He's not trying to eat it.

 

I would suggest another rock, or rearrange the scape slightly. some type of hiding. The Gramma has very obviously claimed the cave in your second photo. S/he's right inside.

 

Mine like to have a rock to hang from and it is their home.

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TerraIncognita
2 hours ago, Beginnerreeftanker said:

He has a cave, I guess the antenna should not be worried about right now.  There’s a big cave in the center, and I think there are some hiding spots; actually I know.  How can I prevent him from being threatened?  Will one of those fish boxes where you acclimate them work?  I could put my gramma in there and hope that the shrimp will do it’s thing.  

9B47B7EF-F1FF-4627-93BE-4D986B7B9850.jpeg

It's called a breeder net, and they're about $10.

 

Yes you could. do that however the problem is that now you're going to stress out your gramma, and you don't know if the shrimp will consider that cave safe anymore since it's memory that it does have to some degree might tell it to not go there. I don't imagine it would be a permanent thing but in the next few days he might not figure it out, in a week or two sure he'll realize, oh " no gramma"

 

That's not really a permanent solution either. It is temporary. If there is one word I could erase from this hobby it would be "temporary" and any synonyms. "For now, until etc."

 

I think your best chance would be to provide some other type of structure small as you want, but something the shrimp can find refuge in.

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coralline-adam

How is your clown doing? Is he getting picked on by the gamma as well?

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TerraIncognita

EXHIBIT A
large.31F78508-0425-4200-8CBF-DF14F32AB2AD.jpeg.239268e10f6708ca5c325a0f28be40f9.jpeg
 

 

Tank #2:

 

Exhibit B

 

 

large.64756692-1C75-4159-864E-9B833B683EEE.jpeg.9497ce7b448fd064018de68a2676ecc7.jpeg

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Beginnerreeftanker

Hi guys, sorry I didn’t respond.  My clown is doing better now, my gramma around a week ago was nipping at him and chasing him around the tank.  I talked to a reefer on BRS and he said that I should maybe relocate my gramma.  I have a 16 gallon nano tank, and I got the gramma as my first fish.  She always acts very territorial and opens her mouth wide all the time to scare of predators.  I tried rearranging the rocks just a little bit with my clown but my fish found a new spot pretty quickly... my gramma is basically a bully :(  what kind of rock scape could I put into my tank, it is pretty small and I already have a lot of rock in there.  Would just a small piece of dry rock work that I could glue to one of my rocks and have it overhang?  I could try relocating the shrimp onto that and hope that he takes to that spot; I obviously just don’t want it to die. I definitely will buy that food cause I’d like him to eat more, and I covered my tank up with a dark towel hoping it would molt in the dark because it’s not as stressed.  Thanks everyone!  

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Beginnerreeftanker

I also covered up my tank hoping that would keep stress away from the shrimp and let it mild. 

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Beginnerreeftanker

Also when the light is off I’ve noticed that my shrimp roams around a lot more too.

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Beginnerreeftanker

I also just put some extra misois shrimp hoping it will eat some of it

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Tired

Your gramma is a bully because grammas are aggressive. They aren't very good for small tanks because they fight other things for territory a lot. Keep an eye on the clownfish, to be sure it isn't being heavily bullied. Depending on the individual personalities of your fish, you may or may not be able to get two territorial fish like this to live in the same small tank. And it's going to be a potential problem when the clownfish hits maturity. 

 

An overhang would be good. Do not physically relocate the shrimp to any new shelter you make for it, you'll just scare it. 

 

Putting mysis shrimp in randomly may not work, if it's too afraid to get out of the corner. You have to put the food right next to it. You don't need to buy a new food- the problem is the stress and possible difficulty in getting at the food, not the food itself. Shrimp love mysis.

 

Covering the tank won't help, and in fact may hurt, since you can't see what's going on inside. The problem is that something inside the tank is attacking the shrimp, it's not afraid of something outside the tank. 

 

My suggestion would be to put the shrimp into a breeder box so it can't be disturbed, and strongly consider rehoming it. It may not ever be safe in this tank. Grammas are naturally territorial, because that's their niche- they're a territorial little fish, they find a cave and defend it so they can't be chased out. It's not malice, it's just how they are.

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TerraIncognita
24 minutes ago, Tired said:

Your gramma is a bully because grammas are aggressive. They aren't very good for small tanks because they fight other things for territory a lot. Keep an eye on the clownfish, to be sure it isn't being heavily bullied. Depending on the individual personalities of your fish, you may or may not be able to get two territorial fish like this to live in the same small tank. And it's going to be a potential problem when the clownfish hits maturity. 

 

An overhang would be good. Do not physically relocate the shrimp to any new shelter you make for it, you'll just scare it. 

 

Putting mysis shrimp in randomly may not work, if it's too afraid to get out of the corner. You have to put the food right next to it. You don't need to buy a new food- the problem is the stress and possible difficulty in getting at the food, not the food itself. Shrimp love mysis.

 

Covering the tank won't help, and in fact may hurt, since you can't see what's going on inside. The problem is that something inside the tank is attacking the shrimp, it's not afraid of something outside the tank. 

 

My suggestion would be to put the shrimp into a breeder box so it can't be disturbed, and strongly consider rehoming it. It may not ever be safe in this tank. Grammas are naturally territorial, because that's their niche- they're a territorial little fish, they find a cave and defend it so they can't be chased out. It's not malice, it's just how they are.

I don't see any reason why he can't keep all these fish in a 16G Cube. I don't think re-homing is necessary, neither do I believe he wants to re-home.

 

OP. I think we've all given you enough info to act.

 

You either need to

 

A. Re-work your tank SCAPE to provide adequate territories for your inhabitants as a solution for long term. (I think you could do this and if you're unsure as to how I'd be glad  to recommend how I would)

 

B. Go spend whatever amount of cash to set up a larger environment.

 

C. Re-home either one.

 

D. Figure out another short term solution until you do A, B or C.

 

E. Let it be and delete your OP.

 

either way let us know. I pray for your pet.

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TerraIncognita
10 minutes ago, TerraIncognita said:

I don't see any reason why he can't keep all these fish in a 16G Cube. I don't think re-homing is necessary, neither do I believe he wants to re-home.

 

OP. I think we've all given you enough info to act.

 

You either need to

 

A. Re-work your tank SCAPE to provide adequate territories for your inhabitants as a solution for long term. (I think you could do this and if you're unsure as to how I'd be glad  to recommend how I would)

 

B. Go spend whatever amount of cash to set up a larger environment.

 

C. Re-home either one.

 

D. Figure out another short term solution until you do A, B or C.

 

E. Let it be and delete your OP.

 

either way let us know. I pray for your pet.

Lastly spot feeding a shrimp is kind of silly.....

 

They're Natures natural scavengers and bottom feeders. This is a thousand year old known piece of information....  They have been scavenging in nature, for eon's. Shrimp are bottom feeders.....

 

I don't think that's any kind of a solution or good idea, and you're probably just now overdosing your tank with excess nutrients.....

 

He's not eating for other reasons. Stop trying to solve that and just solve the problem.

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Tired

Grammas with other fish in tanks under 30 gallons are iffy. Some of them are just too aggressive, as individuals, for the situation to ever be calm. Rearranging the rock may help, but the gramma may continue to be aggressive. More than one cave is probably a good idea, as nice as the current scape is. You want to have more good hiding places than you have creatures that need them.

 

Spot feeding the shrimp isn't going to hurt. If it's not eating because it's afraid to venture out of the corner to look for food, giving it the food directly will get it food. If it's not eating because of stress, oh well, the tank should be able to handle a few more mysis shrimp for one day. It's worth a shot. 

 

(And I would be curious to see your source on that thousand-year-old information. Shrimp are known to be bottom feeders, but were people keeping them a thousand years ago? I thought shrimp farming with any level of observation was a relatively new invention. Or are we talking naturalist observations?)

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TerraIncognita
1 hour ago, Beginnerreeftanker said:

Also when the light is off I’ve noticed that my shrimp roams around a lot more too.

When the light is off your shrimp feels safe, they scavenge a lot at the first start of the night before Sharks and Other predators make it to the reef. Right as all the fish are scurrying back to the reef for safety the scavengers come out to clean up the days left overs and then scurry back to safety themselves.

 

Right when your lights go out most inverts will become hyper active for half an hour or so. It's a natural process. Your Gramma also is inclined to go into her cave and hide.

 

IME After 1-2 hours if no threats seem to emerge, the fish sometimes if not sleeping will poke out a bit and check around, if they find the shrimp and it's too close, they'll go on a territorial hunt. This is why a lot of people have dead fish the "next morning" because it happens at night.

 

People also don't neccesarily realize that I don't think fish sleep as soundly and peacefully as people imagine in the wild. At night sharks come to reefs, and you can watch MANY a video about what they do to reefs at night. It's like Jaws 3000. So if you ever felt "concerned" about turning on a light to wake up your fish. Don't worry, they've been and seen a lot scarier things than you in your underwear grabbing some juice.

 

I'd honestly as crazy as it sounds, if you REALLY want to keep all 3 pets, figure out how to recreate your reefscape, because the way it is now, there's 1 big home in the center. and that's really all. The rest is "outside the home" without a lot of other homie spots.

 

I always scape wide. I feel that creates a lot more diversity of "safe places" to establish their refuges.

 

 

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Beginnerreeftanker
10 hours ago, TerraIncognita said:

When the light is off your shrimp feels safe, they scavenge a lot at the first start of the night before Sharks and Other predators make it to the reef. Right as all the fish are scurrying back to the reef for safety the scavengers come out to clean up the days left overs and then scurry back to safety themselves.

 

Right when your lights go out most inverts will become hyper active for half an hour or so. It's a natural process. Your Gramma also is inclined to go into her cave and hide.

 

IME After 1-2 hours if no threats seem to emerge, the fish sometimes if not sleeping will poke out a bit and check around, if they find the shrimp and it's too close, they'll go on a territorial hunt. This is why a lot of people have dead fish the "next morning" because it happens at night.

 

People also don't neccesarily realize that I don't think fish sleep as soundly and peacefully as people imagine in the wild. At night sharks come to reefs, and you can watch MANY a video about what they do to reefs at night. It's like Jaws 3000. So if you ever felt "concerned" about turning on a light to wake up your fish. Don't worry, they've been and seen a lot scarier things than you in your underwear grabbing some juice.

 

I'd honestly as crazy as it sounds, if you REALLY want to keep all 3 pets, figure out how to recreate your reefscape, because the way it is now, there's 1 big home in the center. and that's really all. The rest is "outside the home" without a lot of other homie spots.

 

I always scape wide. I feel that creates a lot more diversity of "safe places" to establish their refuges.

 

 

Thankyou guys so much for all the advice.  I don’t want to consider rehoming, yet when I woke up it almost looks like there are less antenna.   I will definitely consider moving around my rock scape, and if you could help that would be amazing too.  I’m also curious asking Tired’s advice and I know that I probably have a lot of stuff in that one tank. However, if you could help me with the rock scale just through pics that would be amazing!  Thanks everyone.  Can’t do it right now because a tree fell in yard and we lost power, hooked up generator to the tank though so that’s ok.  Out to do some yard work, but I’ll be brainstorming different rock scapes... thanks!  Here’s a pic of tank again.  

648E5C78-46F8-4425-A8AA-72F9F43621EE.jpeg

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Tired

I notice that your clownfish is also up and away in a corner. Your rockscape is really nice, but you've made it so that there's only one good cave. This means that a cave-occupying territorial fish, like a gramma, can claim the only good hiding spot in the tank. Your clownfish might be stressed too. 

 

To have a good shot at keeping them all happy, you need to have a lot more hiding spots. At least 2 good caves, and then somewhere for the clownfish to tuck into, would be ideal. Try to make it harder for the gramma to defend all the rockwork, and keep a close eye on him. Rearranging things will help the aggression in the beginning, as he'll be confused and trying to find/reestablish his territory, but it might come back again. You could try adding some rockwork around the back and left side of things, where there's some open space, to create caves the gramma doesn't have easy access to. 

 

I strongly suggest isolating the cleaner shrimp in a breeding box until you rearrange. If things continue as they are, it's going to be bullied to death. 

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Beginnerreeftanker

I’m going to the store right now to get some more dry rock to add, and I’m going to rearrange the whole rock work already.  I’m also going to get a isolation box right now too for that as well, I’ll put him in right away. While I’m rearranging all the rocks, should I put my fish into a bucket or something to keep them safe?  Also, does anyone have any ideas on how to rearrange everything?

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