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1255fish

Is this ich???

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1255fish

I am new to the hobby and this is my first tank EVER. I have read all about fish diseases considering the fact that my tank has only been holding fish for about 3 weeks. I let it cycle for 8 weeks. Used RODI water + nitrifying bacteria during this time. We just started growing algae in the tank and got a couple snails, a crab, and a shrimp. The tank currently has 2 clowns and a coral beauty angelfish. It’s 32 gallons with 20lbs live sand and 30lb live rock. 
 

Today has been a wild day. I saw that both of my clowns started pooping white long string like poop and read online that it could be an internal parasite. We decided to treat this with metroplex. We soak their food in this for thirty minutes with focus and have gave them their first dose today. While doing this I noticed this white dots on the angel. A TON of them and kind of freaked out. Is this Ich? If it is can somebody please explain how to treat this. I do not want this in my tank and I don’t have a quarantine tank either seeing as I just barely got this one started. I would be willing to dose this main tank to get rid of it if that’s an option. 

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Tamberav

Worse then ich, that looks like velvet. You will want/need a QT tank. It will kill fish quickly so you really should get these fish out today. Give them a 5 min freshwater bath and into a QT tank with new clean salt water. Be sure not to cross contaminate. You can use a Rubbermaid tub or a 5g or whatever you have on hand for a QT tank. 

 

 

 

You will need copperpower and a hannah high range copper test kit (don't bother with those color changing tests) or the other option you can try is hydrogen peroxide (need a glass container) baths and tank transfers to new QT's. The h2o2 is experimental but obviously it something that is readily available everywhere and inexpensive. 

 

 

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1255fish
3 hours ago, Tamberav said:

Worse then ich, that looks like velvet. You will want/need a QT tank. It will kill fish quickly so you really should get these fish out today. Give them a 5 min freshwater bath and into a QT tank with new clean salt water. Be sure not to cross contaminate. You can use a Rubbermaid tub or a 5g or whatever you have on hand for a QT tank. 

 

 

 

You will need copperpower and a hannah high range copper test kit (don't bother with those color changing tests) or the other option you can try is hydrogen peroxide (need a glass container) baths and tank transfers to new QT's. The h2o2 is experimental but obviously it something that is readily available everywhere and inexpensive. 

 

 

Just my luck 😞 I just got most of these fish this month. I went and bought two 3.5 liter quarantine tanks. I thought it would be best to separate the angel from the clowns because the clowns didn’t show any symptoms. I put the clown fish in a 5 minute fresh water bath before transferring to the QT. One of the clowns isn’t looking too hot. He’s just laying at the bottom of the tank with labored breathing. The other clown keeps swimming and bumping into him on purpose. 

Im still setting up the QT tank for the angel and am preparing the hydrogen peroxide bath for it. Fingers crossed that they all make it till morning 😢. Definitely a little bummed out. 
 

I have invertebrates in the tank as well as two corals. Will these guys be okay if the velvet is in the water? Can they host it and keep it alive in the tank? I want to rid my display tank of the parasite. 

 

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Tamberav
42 minutes ago, 1255fish said:

Just my luck 😞 I just got most of these fish this month. I went and bought two 3.5 liter quarantine tanks. I thought it would be best to separate the angel from the clowns because the clowns didn’t show any symptoms. I put the clown fish in a 5 minute fresh water bath before transferring to the QT. One of the clowns isn’t looking too hot. He’s just laying at the bottom of the tank with labored breathing. The other clown keeps swimming and bumping into him on purpose. 

Im still setting up the QT tank for the angel and am preparing the hydrogen peroxide bath for it. Fingers crossed that they all make it till morning 😢. Definitely a little bummed out. 
 

I have invertebrates in the tank as well as two corals. Will these guys be okay if the velvet is in the water? Can they host it and keep it alive in the tank? I want to rid my display tank of the parasite. 

 

 

6 weeks with no fish to starve out velvet. The inverts can not host it. Be sure not to cross contaminate with your hands or anything. Also put the QT tanks in a seperate room...you don't want them near the other tank.

 

Velvet is nasty...sorry you have to deal with this. It is not uncommon in the hobby and seems to be more of an issue in newer tanks vs established ones.

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1255fish
9 hours ago, Tamberav said:

 

6 weeks with no fish to starve out velvet. The inverts can not host it. Be sure not to cross contaminate with your hands or anything. Also put the QT tanks in a seperate room...you don't want them near the other tank.

 

Velvet is nasty...sorry you have to deal with this. It is not uncommon in the hobby and seems to be more of an issue in newer tanks vs established ones.

Luckily they all survived the night and seem to be doing fine. I started feeding the clowns metroplex with focus to help treat their internal parasites. Should I stop this treatment when I do the treatment for velvet? Should I treat the clowns for velvet even if they aren’t showing symptoms? 

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Tamberav
7 minutes ago, 1255fish said:

Luckily they all survived the night and seem to be doing fine. I started feeding the clowns metroplex with focus to help treat their internal parasites. Should I stop this treatment when I do the treatment for velvet? Should I treat the clowns for velvet even if they aren’t showing symptoms? 

Everything needs to be treated...the clowns have it but you can't see it because they have a thick slime coat. It likley in the gills and they will continue to infect other fish or eventually succumb themselves. 

 

You can keep treating for internal parasites at the same time.

 

I am glad the fish made the night and are eating. Luckily the baths are really great at knocking the parasite number down and buying time to save the fish.

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mcarroll
On 7/27/2020 at 9:25 PM, 1255fish said:

I am new to the hobby and this is my first tank EVER. I have read all about fish diseases considering the fact that my tank has only been holding fish for about 3 weeks.

Hopefully you've read up on more than just fish diseases!  🙂 

 

If not, the book Marine Aquarium Handbook Beginner to Breeder by Martin Moe makes a great start.  Many great books on the topic...both new and old.

 

On 7/27/2020 at 9:25 PM, 1255fish said:

20lbs live sand and 30lb live rock

That sand and rock looks almost brand new in the photos.....how long has the tank been set up?

 

It's hard to tell for sure from your posts, but from the pics so far it looks like the tank may have only been up for a month or two...and from reading, all three fish may have been added at once, almost a month ago.  If that timeline is even close to correct, then you were really asking for trouble doing your very first tank in such a rush.  But is that timeline correct as I described it?

 

On 7/28/2020 at 12:23 PM, 1255fish said:

Luckily they all survived the night

This would at least suggest that the spots you saw were not "velvet" which is widely touted as a fast killer, but probably "ich".  Or maybe even just sand stuck on his slime from picking at bristleworms.

 

To me, with your photos blown up, the spots do not look "powdery" to me, as velvet generally does....it just looks like white spots.  That's either "ich" or sand.

 

Here's some quality info on "velvet" (c. 2011) that ought to tone down this dinoflagellate's somewhat apocalyptic image:  

Velvet (Amyloodinium) infections in fish can easily be avoided.  Did they say "easily"?  Right in the title??!!  Yep.

 

Also, here's some additional quality info on "ich" to go along with what's been presented so far: 

Cryptocaryon irritans Infections (Marine White Spot Disease) in Fish

 

Read the whole thing, of course, but here's an immediately useful quote:

Quote

Signs of Disease

Fish infected with Cryptocaryon will often have small white spots, nodules, or patches on their fins, skin, or gills (Figure 1). They may also have ragged fins, cloudy eyes, pale gills, increased mucus production, or changes in skin color, and they may appear thin (Noga 1996; Colorni and Burgess 1997). Because the characteristic white spots might not be obvious in pale-colored fish or may not appear at all in infections with only gill involvement, absence of "white spots" or nodules—or even parasites—on the fin or skin does not rule out Cryptocaryon. Examine the gills to be sure. Behaviorally, fish may flash (scratch), swim abnormally, hang at the surface or on the bottom, act lethargic, or breathe more rapidly as if in distress (Colorni and Burgess 1997). Within a population, mortalities may increase rapidly over the course of several days. However, the extent of pathology will differ depending upon the strain of parasite, the species of fish, previous exposure to the parasite, and the temperature of the water.

Related links from the IFAS archive:

FA157/FA157: Use of Hydrogen Peroxide in Finfish Aquaculture

FA165/FA165: Use of Copper in Marine Aquaculture and Aquarium

 

And one from SRAC's archive:

SRAC 4705: Amyloodinium ocellatum, an Important Parasite of Cultured Marine Fish

(They report similar symptoms as the Crypto article, such as flashing or gasping, with the notable exception of "velvety powder" for the appearance rather than "white spots"...see page 3 on Diagnosis.)

 

Some more thoughts...sorry this is so long...

It's common (as every guide will tell you) to confuse things like sand particles, "ich" and "velvet" when you're new (sometimes even when you're not so new!) since to the naked eye they very often can't really be differentiated....all three are literally microscopic specs, after all...which means you'd need a microscope to see any real detail.

 

Even if it was ich (actually Crypto. in saltwater), saltwater fish often recover from light displays of ich with no intervention from us other than proper care to eliminate previous stresses and lots of TLC.  The dip you did was actually a highly effective treatment.  A nice, well-setup tank, properly matured reef tank is an important part of that "recovery equation"....which is still a strength you are developing in your tank, not quite there.  

 

Read that velvet link.  My thoughts/comments on the link may help, but click through to the PDF.  It's pretty deep....maturity matters....on a reef, maturity means LOTS of microorganisms competing every which way possible and maintaining stability.

 

Any pathogen, whether ich, velvet or otherwise, is supposed to be positively ID'd (as closely as possible) so that you can figure out the best way to respond.  Doing nothing isn't really an option, but it's very possible to make things worse – to the point of killing healthy fish, or making healthy fish sick – by dong the wrong thing.  It happens all the time.

 

So going back in your situation....the angelfish just having spots that you could see with your eyeballs wasn't quite enough to merit a DEFCON 1 level response...more like a DEFCON 4.  (Look it up....fitting metaphor.)

 

Basically, you still needed some corroborating evidence.  Unless the angel was demonstrating additional symptoms of a parasite, like mentioned in that quote above, then it was probably just sand on him.  That mistake is fairly common...it's happened even in recent threads I've been on.  

 

Removing him for a quick gill examination would have been stressful enough, but would have given you solid information that you could act (or not act) on.  There are guides on how to do a gill exam (even the velvet link gives a how-to description) even on YouTube, but unfortunately this isn't a common practice in the hobby yet.  (Yet!)

 

Removing him for a simple freshwater dip (or even a peroxide-dosed dip, see link above) might have been all that it would have taken.  If you're expert with your capture method (no net contact is a requirement...almost no contact at all), a simple dip like this can be almost stress-free.  

 

Either way, unless you actually found a bad infestation of something, back into the display he would go for maximum recovery.  

 

If needed (even just to cover you own fear), add a UV filter, micron filter and/or additive like Kick Ich.  All three are very complimentary and the two filter options are very straighforward to apply, so depending on the situation you can use just one or combine them as you see fit.  

 

Everything from the capture method, to the dips to the filter setups have to be done correctly though so read everything you can find and ask plenty of questions before proceeding.  

 

Half-baked cures won't work at all in the best cases...and in the worst cases can even be very dangerous to the fish.

 

You are in an unfortunate situation with an immature tank and too many fish...and the fish are going to be in rough shape (maybe worse than when you took them out) going back into the main display after the repeated net catching and extended holding in those <1 gallon containers.  

 

The display also still isn't much more mature or more stable than when they left it.  Making it better should your main task going forward – so the fish have somewhere better to recover from the "treatment" they just received.

 

The first improvement that comes to mind in terms of eliminating potential stress is that you mentioned three potentially-aggressive fish in this fairly small 32 gallon tank.....two clowns and an angel.  Aggression between fish would be a strong possibility with that combination.  Aggression is also something that would promote diseases because, over time, it reduces their immune systems.  

 

Make sure you're watching their behavior at various times during the day (not just one time, the same time each day) AND around lights-out when the fish are staking out their sleeping spots.  If there is any aggression, you may have to do something like getting rid of one or more of the fish, but post any observations here.  Sometimes there are simple solutions.

 

Also, what have you been feeding your fish up to this point?  And how frequently?  There aren't really "bad foods" on the market, but some will be more helpful at this stage of your tank than others.

 

You mentioned live rock in the opening, but the rock in your pictures doesn't have a shred of anything growing on it that would suggest that it was real live rock at any point in its past.  Plus you mentioned dosing bacteria.  Was it really dead rock?  This matters as it takes a lot longer for dead rock to mature...often it doesn't even really begin maturing until corals are introduced as they seed the tank with lots of favorable microbes.  Starting with actual live rock is ideal for a good reason.  👍

 

Adding a variety of phyto- and zoo-plankton can help speed things along with "enlivening" your dead-looking rock, but it's a piecemeal approach, so watch the budget and don't over-do it.  Time will be the main "additive" your tank needs.

 

Have you been testing your water along the way?  What are your most recent results for everything?  (ca, alk, mg, no3, po4)

 

On 7/28/2020 at 12:33 PM, Tamberav said:

Luckily the baths are really great at knocking the parasite number down and buying time to save the fish.

The freshwater dip is almost the only treatment we needed at the saltwater fish store where I worked from about 2010-2015.  A highly underrated, under used tool.

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1255fish
On 7/30/2020 at 1:09 AM, mcarroll said:

Hopefully you've read up on more than just fish diseases!  🙂 

 

If not, the book Marine Aquarium Handbook Beginner to Breeder by Martin Moe makes a great start.  Many great books on the topic...both new and old.

 

That sand and rock looks almost brand new in the photos.....how long has the tank been set up?

 

It's hard to tell for sure from your posts, but from the pics so far it looks like the tank may have only been up for a month or two...and from reading, all three fish may have been added at once, almost a month ago.  If that timeline is even close to correct, then you were really asking for trouble doing your very first tank in such a rush.  But is that timeline correct as I described it?

 

This would at least suggest that the spots you saw were not "velvet" which is widely touted as a fast killer, but probably "ich".  Or maybe even just sand stuck on his slime from picking at bristleworms.

 

To me, with your photos blown up, the spots do not look "powdery" to me, as velvet generally does....it just looks like white spots.  That's either "ich" or sand.

 

Here's some quality info on "velvet" (c. 2011) that ought to tone down this dinoflagellate's somewhat apocalyptic image:  

Velvet (Amyloodinium) infections in fish can easily be avoided.  Did they say "easily"?  Right in the title??!!  Yep.

 

Also, here's some additional quality info on "ich" to go along with what's been presented so far: 

Cryptocaryon irritans Infections (Marine White Spot Disease) in Fish

 

Read the whole thing, of course, but here's an immediately useful quote:

Related links from the IFAS archive:

FA157/FA157: Use of Hydrogen Peroxide in Finfish Aquaculture

FA165/FA165: Use of Copper in Marine Aquaculture and Aquarium

 

And one from SRAC's archive:

SRAC 4705: Amyloodinium ocellatum, an Important Parasite of Cultured Marine Fish

(They report similar symptoms as the Crypto article, such as flashing or gasping, with the notable exception of "velvety powder" for the appearance rather than "white spots"...see page 3 on Diagnosis.)

 

Some more thoughts...sorry this is so long...

It's common (as every guide will tell you) to confuse things like sand particles, "ich" and "velvet" when you're new (sometimes even when you're not so new!) since to the naked eye they very often can't really be differentiated....all three are literally microscopic specs, after all...which means you'd need a microscope to see any real detail.

 

Even if it was ich (actually Crypto. in saltwater), saltwater fish often recover from light displays of ich with no intervention from us other than proper care to eliminate previous stresses and lots of TLC.  The dip you did was actually a highly effective treatment.  A nice, well-setup tank, properly matured reef tank is an important part of that "recovery equation"....which is still a strength you are developing in your tank, not quite there.  

 

Read that velvet link.  My thoughts/comments on the link may help, but click through to the PDF.  It's pretty deep....maturity matters....on a reef, maturity means LOTS of microorganisms competing every which way possible and maintaining stability.

 

Any pathogen, whether ich, velvet or otherwise, is supposed to be positively ID'd (as closely as possible) so that you can figure out the best way to respond.  Doing nothing isn't really an option, but it's very possible to make things worse – to the point of killing healthy fish, or making healthy fish sick – by dong the wrong thing.  It happens all the time.

 

So going back in your situation....the angelfish just having spots that you could see with your eyeballs wasn't quite enough to merit a DEFCON 1 level response...more like a DEFCON 4.  (Look it up....fitting metaphor.)

 

Basically, you still needed some corroborating evidence.  Unless the angel was demonstrating additional symptoms of a parasite, like mentioned in that quote above, then it was probably just sand on him.  That mistake is fairly common...it's happened even in recent threads I've been on.  

 

Removing him for a quick gill examination would have been stressful enough, but would have given you solid information that you could act (or not act) on.  There are guides on how to do a gill exam (even the velvet link gives a how-to description) even on YouTube, but unfortunately this isn't a common practice in the hobby yet.  (Yet!)

 

Removing him for a simple freshwater dip (or even a peroxide-dosed dip, see link above) might have been all that it would have taken.  If you're expert with your capture method (no net contact is a requirement...almost no contact at all), a simple dip like this can be almost stress-free.  

 

Either way, unless you actually found a bad infestation of something, back into the display he would go for maximum recovery.  

 

If needed (even just to cover you own fear), add a UV filter, micron filter and/or additive like Kick Ich.  All three are very complimentary and the two filter options are very straighforward to apply, so depending on the situation you can use just one or combine them as you see fit.  

 

Everything from the capture method, to the dips to the filter setups have to be done correctly though so read everything you can find and ask plenty of questions before proceeding.  

 

Half-baked cures won't work at all in the best cases...and in the worst cases can even be very dangerous to the fish.

 

You are in an unfortunate situation with an immature tank and too many fish...and the fish are going to be in rough shape (maybe worse than when you took them out) going back into the main display after the repeated net catching and extended holding in those <1 gallon containers.  

 

The display also still isn't much more mature or more stable than when they left it.  Making it better should your main task going forward – so the fish have somewhere better to recover from the "treatment" they just received.

 

The first improvement that comes to mind in terms of eliminating potential stress is that you mentioned three potentially-aggressive fish in this fairly small 32 gallon tank.....two clowns and an angel.  Aggression between fish would be a strong possibility with that combination.  Aggression is also something that would promote diseases because, over time, it reduces their immune systems.  

 

Make sure you're watching their behavior at various times during the day (not just one time, the same time each day) AND around lights-out when the fish are staking out their sleeping spots.  If there is any aggression, you may have to do something like getting rid of one or more of the fish, but post any observations here.  Sometimes there are simple solutions.

 

Also, what have you been feeding your fish up to this point?  And how frequently?  There aren't really "bad foods" on the market, but some will be more helpful at this stage of your tank than others.

 

You mentioned live rock in the opening, but the rock in your pictures doesn't have a shred of anything growing on it that would suggest that it was real live rock at any point in its past.  Plus you mentioned dosing bacteria.  Was it really dead rock?  This matters as it takes a lot longer for dead rock to mature...often it doesn't even really begin maturing until corals are introduced as they seed the tank with lots of favorable microbes.  Starting with actual live rock is ideal for a good reason.  👍

 

Adding a variety of phyto- and zoo-plankton can help speed things along with "enlivening" your dead-looking rock, but it's a piecemeal approach, so watch the budget and don't over-do it.  Time will be the main "additive" your tank needs.

 

Have you been testing your water along the way?  What are your most recent results for everything?  (ca, alk, mg, no3, po4)

 

The freshwater dip is almost the only treatment we needed at the saltwater fish store where I worked from about 2010-2015.  A highly underrated, under used tool.

Thanks for the helpful information! I think that I definitely freaked out a little bit when I saw the white spots. Here is a little more information about the tank. It’s a 32gal biocube tank, standard lighting with the protein slimmer added. We cycled the tank for 8 weeks, fishless, while dosing it with nitrifying bacteria. We used two different brands. One the first four weeks and then the second the last 4 weeks just to make sure they were alive. We had 20lbs Of live sand and 20lb of live rock in there from the start and then later added another 10lbs I’d live rock after getting the fish. 
 

We added the two clowns, an coral beauty angelfish, 4 snails, 1 fire shrimp, and 2 emerald crabs into the tank. We later added two corals as well. Everyone is getting along. I think we have had them for about a month now and I’ve never seen any of them chase each other or be aggressive to one another. We observed them during all times of the day, morning, feeding time, evening, and even when they sleep. 
 

Currently we feed them once a day and we switch between Brine Shrimp and TDO Chroma Boost. The clowns are always willing to eat but the angel was pretty skittish the first week. It’s now coming to the top of the tank for food and will pick at the rocks throughout the day. 
 

We did notice, before the velvet scare, that both clowns seemed to be pooping long white strings of feces and went to our local fish store and got Metroplex to treat them with. We actually went back after we thought that the angelfish had velvet and they told us that Metroplex helps treat that as well as Ich. We set up the quarantine tank and gave all the fish a freshwater dip but ended up putting them back into the main display tank because I think they were just too stressed in the quarantine tank. 
 

It’s been a couple of day’s since then and they are all displaying normal behavior. They all eat, not light sensitivity, none of them are swimming again the wave-maker or pump. The white dots on the angel have not fully gone away but they’re does seem to be less of them. 
 

We check the water parameters weekly but have been doing it more frequently every since the fish seemed to be sick. Our ammonia is at 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 5ppm, and pH 8.2. In the pictures I originally posted the rocks look pretty clean but I’ll post a picture of the entire tank for your analysis. I’ll also post pictures of the food for the corals, fish, and medication we are currently dosing the tank with. We have had a lot of algae growth lately and are trying to figure out how to curb its growth. As I mentioned before, I am new to the hobby so every bit of information helps! 

21E5A3B3-17C3-4D4F-881A-765AD6588A75.jpeg

3786593F-2CAF-4852-BA41-A2BEEB72F811.jpeg

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D0EC6262-29D7-4144-93B3-186A57688B55.jpeg

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Tamberav

If that is ich, it is a pretty bad case then. Hope they recover fully for you. Dips tend to do a real good job knocking off parasites and giving them relief either way. 

 

Velvet tends to drop off/cycle faster than ich so sometimes thats a way to tell. 

 

The algae looks like new/normal diatoms... common and eventually goes away when it runs out of silicates and CUC can help. 

 

 

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mcarroll
9 hours ago, 1255fish said:

We set up the quarantine tank and gave all the fish a freshwater dip but ended up putting them back into the main display tank because I think they were just too stressed in the quarantine tank. 

Good move.  If you're going to do a quarantine (and not just a short term treatment) then I wouldn't use less than a 10 Gallon tank, personally – 20 gallons would be a lot more ideal.  Glass tanks are nice for a number of mostly-obvious reasons...but if that's objectionable for some reason, your QT can be anything that holds water and is convenient to keep around.

 

Whatever you select, now's the time to grab a new tank if you think that possibility is still "in the cards".

 

You can do A LOT in the display tank, but if you're bringing in new fish, especially if they are of "unknown origin" (ie mail order), then you probably want to be equipped with a spare tank.  I'd personally keep a Marineland Polishing Filter (a micron filter) around as well.  If budget and storage space aren't at too much of a premium, I'd add a right-sized (ie. large) UV sterilizer to that "just in  case" list too.  Dip every new fish you get in freshwater for 5-15 minutes (usually they tolerate it extremely well).  If you're Between the fishes immune system, the h2o dip, the micron and UV filtration it's extremely unlikely you'll have an outbreak of anything.  "Extras" to consider having around, depending on your needs and your approach, are the reef-safe treatments like those from http://rubyreef.net.  Hydroplex is a good dip in some scenarios.  KickIch and Rally can have some impact on the "swarmers" common to most parasites.  API's Pimafix and Melafix are similar, but target bacterial/fungal types of issues.  You would use these things in marginal situations like these other tools.  Not as

 

Sometimes you'll get a fish that is already post-outbreak...or a fish that is so on the verge of one that you can't stop it.  That's your worst-case scenario, because that usually means something went very wrong during shipping...something that was totally out of your hands.  Fish that come to you in worst-case-scenario shape aren't statistically likely to make it at all....and if you are going to help, it usually has to be done very carefully and very correctly....not always easy or even attainable goals for most reefers...but especially if you're a newb.  Keep reading tho!!  🙂 👍

 

For these REAL problem scenarios, I would start by knowing your sh** when it comes to acclimation.  Acclimation almost doesn't matter to healthy fish, but if the situation is "not ideal" when the fish arrive for some reason, it can matter a lot....like mortally. 

 

So read Sustainable Aquatics' white paper on the subject:  Acclimation White Paper

 

But you will also want some basic treatment options available...primarily hydrogen peroxide to goose up the power of those dips...and copper to enable treatment of most common outbreaks.  (See those usage guides I posted earlier before using either one.) 

 

Also, @Humblefishhas several thread here on the matter....one in particular lists all of the popular "basic meds" you would want to consider "having around just in case" for medicated treatments.  Read it!  😉 

 

You don't need all those meds (they do have expiration dates, for the most part, after all), but it's great to have awareness of them all...and stock up on the one or maybe two that seem likely to be useful in your situation.  Copper generally has no expiration date, and peroxide is a household product....both are widely useful, so they should be on most folks' short list along with the basic freshwater dip.  Some folks might also put one other widely-active med on the keep-some-at-home list if it covers some other really likely scenario/group of scenarios....like having QP for monogean flatworms, if you ever saw them on your fish, or other fish at the store....or like the Metro you got for the belly bugs, but which is useful for a fair number of other things.  Some fish just don't tolerate copper's toxicity...so they just need something different, period.  Etc.  Just get one other med, if necessary, that fits whatever your specifics are.  Or copper and peroxide might do it.

10 hours ago, 1255fish said:

The white dots on the angel have not fully gone away but they’re does seem to be less of them.

If you can do it without casting the whole tank into chaos, you can dip him up to twice a day to help him shed parasites.

 

Consider those filter and reef-safe additive options mentioned.

 

10 hours ago, 1255fish said:

We have had a lot of algae growth lately and are trying to figure out how to curb its growth. As I mentioned before, I am new to the hobby so every bit of information helps!

Algae growth is a great sign that your tank is progressing.  

 

Control is via herbivores....mostly snails in our case....but remember you're the #1 member of the CUC.....snails can't really eat anything larger than film algae, but they'll work day and night (if necessary) so you leverage them.  You have to hand pluck any algae that grows large enough that you can grab it.  If that happens a lot (long algae that you have to tend to) then that means you don't have enough herbivorous snails...add 1-3 more, depending on the severity and the size/species of snail you're getting, and see how it goes for another month.

 

In the long run, the tank should transition to growing coralline algae instead of green algae...at least to the naked eye. 😉 

 

10 hours ago, 1255fish said:

D0EC6262-29D7-4144-93B3-186A57688B55.jpeg

So that is how old now in total?  Three months?  

 

Still doesn't look like much growth anywhere, still lots of bright-white exposed rock.  Mostly just apparently the initial diatom bloom going on...I don't see the usual cyano, hair algae or spots of coralline anywhere.  

 

Am I see all that right, or in person do you see some of those growing?

 

Not a bad state of affairs even if it's just the diatom bloom, but it means your tank (as an ecosystem) is progressing very slowly.  So keep being patient with the tank overall – "the uglies" might be with you for a little while.  Do not add any more fish.

 

Are you sure you didn't use dead, dry rock to start the tank?

 

Good news is that your coral looks fairly happy! 😃

 

(Your tank shouldn't need that Reef Energy, btw....you can save it.)

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1255fish
On 8/1/2020 at 1:53 AM, mcarroll said:

Good move.  If you're going to do a quarantine (and not just a short term treatment) then I wouldn't use less than a 10 Gallon tank, personally – 20 gallons would be a lot more ideal.  Glass tanks are nice for a number of mostly-obvious reasons...but if that's objectionable for some reason, your QT can be anything that holds water and is convenient to keep around.

 

Whatever you select, now's the time to grab a new tank if you think that possibility is still "in the cards".

 

You can do A LOT in the display tank, but if you're bringing in new fish, especially if they are of "unknown origin" (ie mail order), then you probably want to be equipped with a spare tank.  I'd personally keep a Marineland Polishing Filter (a micron filter) around as well.  If budget and storage space aren't at too much of a premium, I'd add a right-sized (ie. large) UV sterilizer to that "just in  case" list too.  Dip every new fish you get in freshwater for 5-15 minutes (usually they tolerate it extremely well).  If you're Between the fishes immune system, the h2o dip, the micron and UV filtration it's extremely unlikely you'll have an outbreak of anything.  "Extras" to consider having around, depending on your needs and your approach, are the reef-safe treatments like those from http://rubyreef.net.  Hydroplex is a good dip in some scenarios.  KickIch and Rally can have some impact on the "swarmers" common to most parasites.  API's Pimafix and Melafix are similar, but target bacterial/fungal types of issues.  You would use these things in marginal situations like these other tools.  Not as

 

Sometimes you'll get a fish that is already post-outbreak...or a fish that is so on the verge of one that you can't stop it.  That's your worst-case scenario, because that usually means something went very wrong during shipping...something that was totally out of your hands.  Fish that come to you in worst-case-scenario shape aren't statistically likely to make it at all....and if you are going to help, it usually has to be done very carefully and very correctly....not always easy or even attainable goals for most reefers...but especially if you're a newb.  Keep reading tho!!  🙂 👍

 

For these REAL problem scenarios, I would start by knowing your sh** when it comes to acclimation.  Acclimation almost doesn't matter to healthy fish, but if the situation is "not ideal" when the fish arrive for some reason, it can matter a lot....like mortally. 

 

So read Sustainable Aquatics' white paper on the subject:  Acclimation White Paper

 

But you will also want some basic treatment options available...primarily hydrogen peroxide to goose up the power of those dips...and copper to enable treatment of most common outbreaks.  (See those usage guides I posted earlier before using either one.) 

 

Also, @Humblefishhas several thread here on the matter....one in particular lists all of the popular "basic meds" you would want to consider "having around just in case" for medicated treatments.  Read it!  😉 

 

You don't need all those meds (they do have expiration dates, for the most part, after all), but it's great to have awareness of them all...and stock up on the one or maybe two that seem likely to be useful in your situation.  Copper generally has no expiration date, and peroxide is a household product....both are widely useful, so they should be on most folks' short list along with the basic freshwater dip.  Some folks might also put one other widely-active med on the keep-some-at-home list if it covers some other really likely scenario/group of scenarios....like having QP for monogean flatworms, if you ever saw them on your fish, or other fish at the store....or like the Metro you got for the belly bugs, but which is useful for a fair number of other things.  Some fish just don't tolerate copper's toxicity...so they just need something different, period.  Etc.  Just get one other med, if necessary, that fits whatever your specifics are.  Or copper and peroxide might do it.

If you can do it without casting the whole tank into chaos, you can dip him up to twice a day to help him shed parasites.

 

Consider those filter and reef-safe additive options mentioned.

 

Algae growth is a great sign that your tank is progressing.  

 

Control is via herbivores....mostly snails in our case....but remember you're the #1 member of the CUC.....snails can't really eat anything larger than film algae, but they'll work day and night (if necessary) so you leverage them.  You have to hand pluck any algae that grows large enough that you can grab it.  If that happens a lot (long algae that you have to tend to) then that means you don't have enough herbivorous snails...add 1-3 more, depending on the severity and the size/species of snail you're getting, and see how it goes for another month.

 

In the long run, the tank should transition to growing coralline algae instead of green algae...at least to the naked eye. 😉 

 

So that is how old now in total?  Three months?  

 

Still doesn't look like much growth anywhere, still lots of bright-white exposed rock.  Mostly just apparently the initial diatom bloom going on...I don't see the usual cyano, hair algae or spots of coralline anywhere.  

 

Am I see all that right, or in person do you see some of those growing?

 

Not a bad state of affairs even if it's just the diatom bloom, but it means your tank (as an ecosystem) is progressing very slowly.  So keep being patient with the tank overall – "the uglies" might be with you for a little while.  Do not add any more fish.

 

Are you sure you didn't use dead, dry rock to start the tank?

 

Good news is that your coral looks fairly happy! 😃

 

(Your tank shouldn't need that Reef Energy, btw....you can save it.)

So our angel ended up dying last night. I’m honestly not sure from what. We didn’t see him all this morning and moved the rocks to find him dead. He honestly seemed fine the past couple of days. He was eating and coming up to the top of the tank to eat and grazing on the rock. I didn’t notice any irregular swimming patterns. What should I look for on his body to tell me if it was some sort of disease? 

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Tamberav

You already posted pictures and the fish clearly had velvet or a bad case of ich (or even both). It likes to live in the gills... so whatever you see on the body, it is probably worse in the gills which causes damage and they suffocate and die.

 

The cycle of this disease is for the spots to disappear/drop off so they can multiply and return in bigger numbers potentially overwhelming the fish. 

 

The disease will remain in the tank since the clowns are there to serve as a typhoid Mary and any fish added may also break out depending how hardy or healthy they are.

 

 

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mcarroll
6 hours ago, 1255fish said:

So our angel ended up dying last night. I’m honestly not sure from what. We didn’t see him all this morning and moved the rocks to find him dead. He honestly seemed fine the past couple of days. He was eating and coming up to the top of the tank to eat and grazing on the rock. I didn’t notice any irregular swimming patterns. What should I look for on his body to tell me if it was some sort of disease? 

:sad:

 

No scratching/flashing behavior or gasping at the surface, etc?

 

A gill exam when you had him out of the tank that first time may have revealed something...but maybe not if there were no signs of irritation with skin, breathing or appetite.  

 

If he was still fresh, you can do the same kind of examination, just post-mortem...but freshness matters as most parasites (not all) seem to be claimed to drop off of dead fish.

 

If he's not so fresh, it could still be worth a look....for practice if nothing else.  

 

All you would need is low power up to 50-100x, more or less.  (40x is my student microscope's lowest setting.)  A jewelers loupe or good magnifying glass (and good lighting) might actually be all it takes.  But some kind of examination scope will probably make it easiest.

 

You can get an idea of what the proceedings will be like from this (though this is very comprehensive):

https://www.dvm360.com/view/performing-basic-examination-fish

They can be cheapies ($20) like this:  image.png.70edf6b362b128d6b8ebbf0e0f430205.png  

Or slightly nicer ($50+) like this: image.png.33627077d2ea668a331dde1df50dd5b4.png or this: image.png.e720ff5b478db8584914a6c6428e8939.png

 

Or totally legit ($100+) like this: image.png.1168148b97c59874a2ee984bdac1ea87.png

(Check out https://www.amscope.com for all those options.)

 

Here's a video that shows how to do it on a larger fish and everything is well-explained, if not directly applicable to a 1-2" aquarium fish. If you spend some time looking around you can find folks doing it on smaller fish, only a little differently.  @Paul B has made a few posts on the topic over the years, but maybe only on Reef Central or R2R...not sure where all they were posted.

 

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