Dino killing my tank.

[makingfilms]

Hi

 

so I have had a 14 gallon im peninsula tank and the past 4 months has been ravaged by Dinos and other algae. Not sure how it started In March since I do maintain good husbandry but it has been a revolving door of cyano Dino's diatoms bryopsis and a few others. I have tried multiple approaches at attacking  Dino's and thought I had it beat but stupidly I added medicine for cyano and then bryopsis which caused it to ravage back. I have lost all my corals except some expensive mushrooms and some polys.  I feel the tank is toxic from the Dino's and me probably threw too much medicine into the tank. And the mushrooms are starting to shrivel. I want to save my shrooms and my one remain rock flower anemone. I am cycling a 4 gallon pico I had on hand and hope to transfer the live stock until

 How can I make sure I don't transfer the Dino's?

[neyes_ice]

how are you treating the dino? 

[Clown79]

Do you know what dino's you have.

 

Dino's are caused by too sterile a tank. Lack of nutrients and biodiversity.

 

The medicine for other algaes could very well cause dino's to flourish because the method of getting rid of dino is the opposite to other algae outbreaks.

 

You actually want to get your tank "dirty" with other algaes growing to get rid of dino.

 

I detailed what i did in my tanks to get rid of dino in my lagoon journal. I also got it in my puco tank from transfering corals to it and did the same thing as in my lagoon.

 

 I had ostreopsis, a difficult dino to get rid of but it was gone just over a month.

 

 

[makingfilms]

It appears to ostreopsis but im

gonna reconfirm tomorrow with a microscope.
 

treatment so far is I Dirtied my my tank  and added pods and phyto  which helped slightly. I pulled my gfo.  I switched to real ocean water because I heard salt mixes can help increase Dino's This actually had some effect.  Regardless of feeding I couldn't get my nitrates up so I pulled my bio media in the back which was covered in Dino's anyway in addition to feeding a lot. I cut back in on wcs. That beat them back for a minute but the came  back full steam after about 4-6 weeks. Currently tanks  seem toxic my remaining corals Wilt to near death but with a massive water change they perk up Some But only to decline in about a week. Sort of at a loss. I was hoping to use well established rock sand and some  macros in a pico to outcompete the Dino's on the 5-6 shrooms I want to keep Then start over on a rebalanced system. 

 

[makingfilms]

It's hard to keep the tank dirty when massive water changes are what are keeping the corals alive it seems 

[Clown79]

Waterchanges will appear to help for about a day or two but new clean water fuels dino.

 

Same with any vitamins or amino's.

 

A complete stop of waterchanges for at least a month is needed.

 

Any removal of dino's can be done with a turkey baster but the water needs to go through a filter sock and floss to catch the dino and that water recycled into the tank.

 

The only media that should be used during a dino outbreak is floss(changed every couple of days and carbon. Carbon should be changed weekly with dino.

 

Carbon reduces the effects of dino on corals as dino's come with palytoxin.

 

When adding pods, your tank needs to be seeded so a lot of pods need to be added with phyto dosing every 2 days

 

The phyto feeds the pods which encourages reproduction of pods. This also aids in increasing phos- which to see a significant change in the tank needs to get to above 0.08.

 

I had to feed reef roids twice a day, feed fish twice a day, dose phyto every other day, cut photo period, suck out dino, no waterchanges for a month before there was any noticeable change.

 

The phos and pods was the trick. As soon as i seeded my tank with tisbe pods my dino started dying.

 

I am not sure of the validity of sea water vs salt as the ocean has dino's too. Every tank does as well. They are part of the ecosystem.

 

Even restarting a tank wil not ensure no dino's. Many hobbyists have shut down, disinfected, restarted- to have them again.

 

The corals they are on alone can transfer them, especially since a new tank will have less biodiversity and lower nutrients.

[mcarroll]

On 7/27/2020 at 10:14 PM, makingfilms said:

It's hard to keep the tank dirty when massive water changes are what are keeping the corals alive it seems 

It might seem that way, but that is not what's happening.

 

Can you post your test results for ca, alk, mg, po4 and no3?   po4 and no3 are the ones we're most interested in – especially po4 – but they all count.

 

A photo of the tank and description of the general setup might be useful too.

 

Do you have a micron filter available?   How about a UV filter?  Do you happen to have liquid nitrate and phosphate supplements on hand?  There's a good chance that all of those might be called for, depending what you report about the microscopic view of things.  👍

[makingfilms]

It actually turned out not to be identifiable Dinos. I went to a much more skilled hobbyist and he took a look under the scope and just saw diatoms hair algae and cyano. But there was something in the water that was killing the tank. Could have been chemicals I added to fix it.  All Corals were pulled and dipped in coral rx  and treated with metroplex for any bacteria also I got rid of a lot of plays it seems to have worked and corals on the rebound. I did lose all of my snails crabs and a few expensive corals. A biohazard bounce and my old plate coral.I feel I rushed at the beginning went it started going south and added a bunch of chemicals to my tank to battle things and it nuked the tank. I want to pull the rocks re add sand and start over in a new tank. Currently letting the tank recover for a few months before we get into any of that. 

[TerraIncognita]

i haven't read any of the responses but just  your original post.

 

I recently ran across this video and have been mulling it over for awhile.

 

 

No one I know has used it, and no one I know with corals has used it. I recommend a lot of reefers start watching these youtube channels of BRS and other large Reef suppliers youtubes. They get PAID to experiment on reef problems for you. So they've actually already SOLVED a lot of them.

 

With that said, and again I've not read any one else's respones. But the Algae obviously grew and became present for all the various reasons' blah blah it happened, the problem is you have algae now. IME Best things to do is 1. make sure your CUC is still in-tact a lot of people don't realize it but sometimes they lose their CUC and don't even watch. There's various reasons for that, so while you try to figure that out (why they died) replenish them.

 

2. Reduce lighting for 3-4 days while you try to figure out what's going on. That's always a staple and works every time with minimal if no consequences. If anything I'd only think if your corals where in a huge growth spurt, it might stunt them and completely stop that whole cycle which would suck.

 

Otherwise good luck. I'm sure you'll find the advice you need.

[makingfilms]

I feel I was worried it was Dino's because my nutrients were registering zero. But they might have been consumed by all the diatoms and cyano. I actually think they were high but being consumed by algae. I did do a week lights out Which actually help tremendously. I would say the three things I did to nuke my tank are: feed reef roids on a schedule. I do not have active enough filtration to take out all the phos and nitrate it adds to tank. From there I got a bad "diatom"and cyano outbreak with hair algae. Trying to fix that with chemiclean and reef flux hd. Both chemical solutions used within a month. I feel that whacked a bunch of things out of balanace. And finally I have no proof but Red Sea blue bucket salt, at the beginning of Covid I started mixing saltwater instead of using real ocean water. I was at the end of the bucket and noticed things got worse with water changes when using. Maybe I didn't mix the salt at the beginning and there was some element out of each. No proof to back that up.... but nsw is what I'm exclusively using 

[mcarroll]

58 minutes ago, TerraIncognita said:

I recommend a lot of reefers start watching these youtube channels of BRS and other large Reef suppliers youtubes. They get PAID to experiment on reef problems for you. So they've actually already SOLVED a lot of them.

...

[TerraIncognita]

20 hours ago, makingfilms said:

I feel I was worried it was Dino's because my nutrients were registering zero. But they might have been consumed by all the diatoms and cyano. I actually think they were high but being consumed by algae. I did do a week lights out Which actually help tremendously. I would say the three things I did to nuke my tank are: feed reef roids on a schedule. I do not have active enough filtration to take out all the phos and nitrate it adds to tank. From there I got a bad "diatom"and cyano outbreak with hair algae. Trying to fix that with chemiclean and reef flux hd. Both chemical solutions used within a month. I feel that whacked a bunch of things out of balanace. And finally I have no proof but Red Sea blue bucket salt, at the beginning of Covid I started mixing saltwater instead of using real ocean water. I was at the end of the bucket and noticed things got worse with water changes when using. Maybe I didn't mix the salt at the beginning and there was some element out of each. No proof to back that up.... but nsw is what I'm exclusively using 

I did see a video recently on that I’ll see if I can find it. About not mixing your salt before mixing your saltwater. And here it is. It's the french guy at 15:50

 

19 hours ago, mcarroll said:

...

Yes? I watch them myself I’m no expert. Lol if you’re referring to the fact you think it’s a money scheme that’s true. But there’s so much other useful data.

[mcarroll]

39 minutes ago, makingfilms said:

I feel I was worried it was Dino's because my nutrients were registering zero. But they might have been consumed by all the diatoms and cyano. I actually think they were high but being consumed by algae.

That is circular thinking – forget about wherever you read that.  (I know the whole "algae is making it read zero" is a thing out there.)

 

If you're doing your tests right, they aren't misleading you.  Of course that's an important distinction....test kits do have expiration dates and it's possible to do tests incorrectly.  If there is any doubt about the tests you are running, simply re-test the same sample 2 or 3 times and see how much variation there is between each round of testing.  If you're doing the test right, there should be very little variation in the results, and the results should not be too surprising based on what you know about the state of your tank.

 

But a microscope isn't going to mislead you either....there's no reason to assume you have a dino bloom just because your corals are having trouble.  

 

Low nutrients....phosphates in particular...is an issue for corals unto itself.  It doesn't take much of anything additional to compound that from an issue into a problem.

 

Before you spend more energy speculating, post up your test results and a couple of good tank pics....one that shows the whole tank, and one that shows a good representative closeup of the algae you have growing...at least.

[mipster]

1 minute ago, mcarroll said:

post up your test results and a couple of good tank pics....one that shows the whole tank, and one that shows a good representative closeup of the algae you have growing...at least.

Agreed! It seems hard to give advice if we can't see exactly what's going on.

[TerraIncognita]

9 minutes ago, mipster said:

Agreed! It seems hard to give advice if we can't see exactly what's going on.

Yeah for sure.

 

whats still in the tank right now though?

[makingfilms]

Oh a bunch of stuff made it. Currently:

snowflake clown. 
weeping willow toadstool.
A small colony of play grandis 12-14 heads

A Sunkist bounce 

a pz god spawn bounce

My 2 Taiwan  yumas

A Philippines Yuma 

a carpet rodacthis of some sort

 

lost so far:

Australian gold torch 

indo gold torch

Yellow palys

Fungia coral of somesort

 biohazard bounce

all my Rasta zoas 

 

 

 

hanging on:

wwc og bounce

 

i had most of these corals 2+ years Before death except the biohazard I bought that off a reefer recently for too much money. The Australian torch went first. I figured it was my clown as she hosted it for a year before it tanked. Than the indo but she never touched that. Then algae went crazy and losses start coming.

ok some results tested twice all tests where with a point or 2 of wmeach other. 

I have to pick up a phosphate test tomorrow I ran out

Nitrates between 0 and 5 Red Sea kit I can pick up a low range kit. 

alk 7.4

ph 8.2

no calc test. It's expired I don't really have any lps  anymore so I haven't been testing. 
 

I haven't done a water change in over a week. Not slot of algae except brown dusty algae that sometimes gets stringy on rocks and glass. Still a few small patches of hair algae. Only struggling coral is the og bounce. It was puking it's guts out for about a mont and not it just looks super pissed off. Yumas are big and huge. Palys are ok.

 

i have a pico I can move things too except my clown 

 

I will take pics and update results tomorrow when lights go back on. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tamberav]

If it is ostreopsis...a small UV will take care if that specific dino. I know you said you don't think it is now....but this is good info to have.

 

Vibrant can cause cyano or dino FYI... So wouldn't bother with that...all you need is the basics and patience.

 

[Tamberav]

6 hours ago, mcarroll said:

...

[TerraIncognita]

5 hours ago, Tamberav said:

If it is ostreopsis...a small UV will take care if that specific dino. I know you said you don't think it is now....but this is good info to have.

 

Vibrant can cause cyano or dino FYI... So wouldn't bother with that...all you need is the basics and patience.

 

If you watch the video on Vibrant they found after killing certain algae's the vibrant would encourage sudden other algae, growth, but then once that reached a peak, those would then die off.

 

Additionally I originally was under the impression at this point he had most everything out of his tank except for a 1 blasto and was saying he's gonna just sit back for a few months and see what happens. That's the point where normally 90% of reefers throw in the towel.

 

Addtionally, with no photos, but based on what he's saying, I imagine his reef looks somewhat like this but even worse.

 

 

 

the natural handling of this is probably 1-2 years out for it to be gone completely.

 

If I were him, obviously at this point he's realized he MESSED UP big time somewhere.

 

I'd take EVERYTHING out of my tank, for a friend to host until I can get the algae under control. I would stop all feeding, reduce lighting to 6 Hours, and try out this vibrant dose for 16 weeks, 8 weeks dosing weekly, 4 weeks half dose, 4 weeks 1/4 dose, or something similar to this.

 

I think this would produce tremendous results, then whilst he is handling the algae issue, he will be able to study more on WHAT he did wrong. I'm sure 16 weeks of a tank with nothing but slowly dying algae would be enough of a sore spot for him to not want to ever let it happen again.

 

If he can make it past this algae psychosis he'll probably become a great reefer.  If he can never beat the algae and it just deflates him, This is one of the last times we'll ever see his name on this forum lol.

 

 

[TerraIncognita]

11 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Before you spend more energy speculating, post up your test results and a couple of good tank pics....one that shows the whole tank, and one that shows a good representative closeup of the algae you have growing...at least.

 

IMO while he can give us his params, and obviously that's important. If he doesn't handle this algae problem, he'll give up reefing. I'm trying to give him solutions to handle the problem. Why the algae is there in the first place he seems to already have spotted some key points. Feeding Reef Roids daily I'm sure played a big part, let alone we have NO idea the dosing he was doing of reef roids, you're supposed to do i think half a teaspoon on 50 Gallons. I do like a SPRINKLE every 3 days in my 15 gallon. So I can imagine him doing 1/2 a teaspoon or something daily on his nano would cause disaster.

 

He's left out a lot of key information to give us clues to find where his parameters went wack, but I think we can ALL Agree his parameters msut have been greatly out of control for it to get to this stage, and I think the OP has done enough research now to realize that.

 

Unfortunately he probably should've done that research before overdosing reef roids on a daily basis.

 

With that said, if he stopped all feeding, continued weekly 50% water changes, and blasted the tank with Vibrant, I'm sure he'd see great results.

 

Apparently after vibrant kills the algae it turns it into bio load that can be absorbed by your corals as nutrients. So I'm not sure he would even need to feed and maybe he could just keep his corals in there while he goes through this.

 

When you read the fine print on things, you start to realize who was the one making mistakes.....

 

If vibrant is providing nutrients while it kills algae, I would imagine people don't realize that, continue feeding while dosing, and then just double their problem.

 

The point i'm trying to make is if he made a plan, and did actions that very obviously wouldn';t be spiking his params (i.e. no feedings and continuing 40% weekly water changes or something like that) obviously his params would be under control (unless he's using fault water) in which case he should jsut throw in the towel since his water source is already doomed. I test my water i mix/buy before I do water changes anyway.

 

NEVER TRUST ANY WATER ANYWHERE. lol.

[Tamberav]

3 hours ago, TerraIncognita said:

If you watch the video on Vibrant they found after killing certain algae's the vibrant would encourage sudden other algae, growth, but then once that reached a peak, those would then die off.

 

Additionally I originally was under the impression at this point he had most everything out of his tank except for a 1 blasto and was saying he's gonna just sit back for a few months and see what happens. That's the point where normally 90% of reefers throw in the towel.

 

Addtionally, with no photos, but based on what he's saying, I imagine his reef looks somewhat like this but even worse.

 

 

 

the natural handling of this is probably 1-2 years out for it to be gone completely.

 

If I were him, obviously at this point he's realized he MESSED UP big time somewhere.

 

I'd take EVERYTHING out of my tank, for a friend to host until I can get the algae under control. I would stop all feeding, reduce lighting to 6 Hours, and try out this vibrant dose for 16 weeks, 8 weeks dosing weekly, 4 weeks half dose, 4 weeks 1/4 dose, or something similar to this.

 

I think this would produce tremendous results, then whilst he is handling the algae issue, he will be able to study more on WHAT he did wrong. I'm sure 16 weeks of a tank with nothing but slowly dying algae would be enough of a sore spot for him to not want to ever let it happen again.

 

If he can make it past this algae psychosis he'll probably become a great reefer.  If he can never beat the algae and it just deflates him, This is one of the last times we'll ever see his name on this forum lol.

 

 

1-2 years...come on..that's hardly true.

 

I have seen that video ...I got a free bottle of vibrant and other additives with a tank set up I bought because it was failing. All it needed was some elbow grease and a new sand bed.

 

Bryopsis...dino...aptasia...cyano...Dictyota... Bubble algae...if you are in the hobby long of it you have seen it all and they are fixable in a nano. 

 

This is a rock covered in bryopsis dipped in tank water + peroxide for 10 min then swished in another batch of tank water and replaced. My bryopsis issue was solved in 10 min without effecting anything else in the tank. Even the sponges on the rock survived in peroxide but the bryopsis did not. The acro colony was totally fine hanging out above peroxide in the air for 10 min.

 

One dollar of peroxide and the problem was solved quicker and cheaper than vibrant without the risk of other algaes or killing my delicate fish.

 

 

 

Vibrant can work but it is important to know it can also be a disaster. Personally I like to use methods that always work and don't effect the entire tank. Vibrant is easier though... just dose this and your problems will go away (hopefully). Risk vs reward vs time invested. Most would probably choose vibrant as it is straight forward and seems less 'scary'. I know I freaked my friend out showing him my acro chilling in the air. I left a monti outside on the counter for 12 hours by accident and its made almost a full recovery in a week... that surprised me too! I would have thought 12 hours in the air would kill a SPS. 

 

 

[Clown79]

1 hour ago, Tamberav said:

1-2 years...come on..that's hardly true.

 

I have seen that video ...I got a free bottle of vibrant and other additives with a tank set up I bought because it was failing. All it needed was some elbow grease and a new sand bed.

 

Bryopsis...dino...aptasia...cyano...Dictyota... Bubble algae...if you are in the hobby long of it you have seen it all and they are fixable in a nano. 

 

This is a rock covered in bryopsis dipped in tank water + peroxide for 10 min then swished in another batch of tank water and replaced. My bryopsis issue was solved in 10 min without effecting anything else in the tank. Even the sponges on the rock survived in peroxide but the bryopsis did not. The acro colony was totally fine hanging out above peroxide in the air for 10 min.

 

One dollar of peroxide and the problem was solved quicker and cheaper than vibrant without the risk of other algaes or killing my delicate fish.

 

 

 

Vibrant can work but it is important to know it can also be a disaster. Personally I like to use methods that always work and don't effect the entire tank. Vibrant is easier though... just dose this and your problems will go away (hopefully). Risk vs reward vs time invested. Most would probably choose vibrant as it is straight forward and seems less 'scary'. I know I freaked my friend out showing him my acro chilling in the air. I left a monti outside on the counter for 12 hours by accident and its made almost a full recovery in a week... that surprised me too! I would have thought 12 hours in the air would kill a SPS. 

 

 

So very true. Every tank will have outbreaks of algae and every tank will have issues. 

We are dealing with a hobby that isn't perfect so expecting perfection is not realistic.

 

It all can be taken care of with patience and some manual work.

 

I was almost defeated when i got dino but your advice and research really helped me and doing the simple natural methods not only got rid of the dino but taught me a few lessons in the process without losing anything in my tank. 

 

 

Having nutrients isn't a bad thing

 

Having some algae is normal and part of the ecosystem

 

Sterile tanks are pretty but eventually you end up with a problems

 

Doing the wrong treatments and trying to use products to help often leads to bigger issues.

[TerraIncognita]

4 hours ago, Tamberav said:

1-2 years...come on..that's hardly true.

 

I have seen that video ...I got a free bottle of vibrant and other additives with a tank set up I bought because it was failing. All it needed was some elbow grease and a new sand bed.

 

Bryopsis...dino...aptasia...cyano...Dictyota... Bubble algae...if you are in the hobby long of it you have seen it all and they are fixable in a nano. 

 

This is a rock covered in bryopsis dipped in tank water + peroxide for 10 min then swished in another batch of tank water and replaced. My bryopsis issue was solved in 10 min without effecting anything else in the tank. Even the sponges on the rock survived in peroxide but the bryopsis did not. The acro colony was totally fine hanging out above peroxide in the air for 10 min.

 

One dollar of peroxide and the problem was solved quicker and cheaper than vibrant without the risk of other algaes or killing my delicate fish.

 

 

 

Vibrant can work but it is important to know it can also be a disaster. Personally I like to use methods that always work and don't effect the entire tank. Vibrant is easier though... just dose this and your problems will go away (hopefully). Risk vs reward vs time invested. Most would probably choose vibrant as it is straight forward and seems less 'scary'. I know I freaked my friend out showing him my acro chilling in the air. I left a monti outside on the counter for 12 hours by accident and its made almost a full recovery in a week... that surprised me too! I would have thought 12 hours in the air would kill a SPS. 

Honestly I'm not the expert on Algae.

 

I've never had an algae out-break that lasted more than a week. and I've never had to deal with it to that point I guess.

 

I've just heard once you get like a really bad one, you might as well give up. Obviousslllyyy that's not the solution, but I've always dreaded the "algae outbreak" so in my 5 years of reefing never having one I'm lucky.

 

With that said. If you guys have successfully handled an algae out-break by all means, just follow whatever you did. I guess I just haven't read about someone who has, but again I've never researched it that deep because I've never had the issue. I've always only read "algae" and then the thread goes on for awhile, and the person disappears lol XDDD

 

Also not sure if it was you or not but I never knew Dinos and Cyano aren't actually Algae Specimens. That's even more frightening 😄 lol.

 

I guess I should research it a lot more, but I feel like i'll jinx it.

 

Quote

 

 

 

[Tamberav]

13 minutes ago, TerraIncognita said:

Honestly I'm not the expert on Algae.

 

I've never had an algae out-break that lasted more than a week. and I've never had to deal with it to that point I guess.

 

I've just heard once you get like a really bad one, you might as well give up. Obviousslllyyy that's not the solution, but I've always dreaded the "algae outbreak" so in my 5 years of reefing never having one I'm lucky.

 

With that said. If you guys have successfully handled an algae out-break by all means, just follow whatever you did. I guess I just haven't read about someone who has, but again I've never researched it that deep because I've never had the issue. I've always only read "algae" and then the thread goes on for awhile, and the person disappears lol XDDD

 

Also not sure if it was you or not but I never knew Dinos and Cyano aren't actually Algae Specimens. That's even more frightening 😄 lol.

 

I guess I should research it a lot more, but I feel like i'll jinx it.

 

 

 

YouTube is fun to watch but it's not an in-depth resource. The real stuff is in books and research articles. There is no reason a person can't or shouldn't use both.

 

There is a reason you can't use YouTube and Wikipedia in college papers as evidence based research.

 

I do like people's personal experience though...that's how the hobby moves forward and grows.

[TerraIncognita]

mmm I disagree a little with the youtube comment.

 

I think current leaders in the industry really are only working a lot online because that's where they are getting the most return right now (biggest bang for you buck)

 

Even a scientist wants to make money.

 

Having 1Million Youtube Subscribers is a lot easier and quicker than selling 1 million copies of a book, let alone the amount of money you get from you tube is probably much better. There's a reason that it's one of the fastest growing and continually growing websites.

 

I think however with reefers like yourself, you'd very easily be able to sort out from youtube whats good and whats junk. there is a lot of junk on youtube, but even those junk videos give new perspective on a lot of things.

 

I wouldn't suggest someone with no reefing experience to go snooping around Youtube other than for example BRSTV's 52 weeks of reefing.

 

But you can't sit here, and tell me that BRSTV's 52 weeks of reefing is not an in-depth resource. lol. sorry. I've learned more from them than any book I've ever read about reefing.

 

Send me the titles and lists of books you refer to. I'll read em too.

 

I do think that there are a lot of books from the 70's on Coral and fish and their care that are accurate and will remain to be accurate until time ends.

 

But as things progress in the hobby I feel you have to keep up on youtube and Instagram. If you don't feel that way That's fine. Just my personal opinion.

 

Wikipedia is just bs for sure that i agree ❤️ lol.