Tropic Marin All-For-Reef - users thread

[A.m.P]

Both, I just don't think the trace elements are necessary if you do waterchanges and they add ALLOT (almost the entire margin separating it from normal 2-part) of expense to using the mixture.

[Break]

2 hours ago, Amphrites said:

Both, I just don't think the trace elements are necessary if you do waterchanges and they add ALLOT (almost the entire margin separating it from normal 2-part) of expense to using the mixture.

Yeah, after a bit more reading I agree that kalkwasser in my ATO is probably the best solution. Regardless, the discussion in this thread was quite helpful in clarifying the pros/cons of AFR, thanks everyone.

[mcarroll]

Two part formulas certainly exist with and without trace elements being added.

 

Whether trace elements are "necessary" is relative to the tank in question...it's not a question that can be generally answered for the product as a whole or for "everyone's tank".  

 

If you want to do less (or no) water changes, then having trace elements added can be nice.

 

If you are doing lots of water changes already, then it wouldn't make as much sense to have a maxed out two-part setup....something closer to the DIY formulas that Randy Holmes-Farley released years ago would be a better fit.

 

That said, smart manufacturers like Tropic Marin and ESV are only going to put the consumable trace elements in a "complete" dosing solution.  There should be no risk of "toxicity"...not even hypothetically.  

 

It could be worth saying:  I've never read anything but hypotheses about trace element toxicity in a home aquarium.  I've never seen anyone trace an actual tank/coral problem back to a trace element issue.  

 

The only exception I can think of kinda makes my point:  If (e.g.) a galvanized screw gets dropped in the tank or metal plumbing fittings get exposed to tank water, you have a trace element toxicity issue...things like that HAVE been known to cause problems....but that's not the kind of "trace element dosing" we're talking about.

 

(This seems consistent with the limited studies I've read about trace element toxicity in wild corals.  Chemicals we'd dose, aren't apparently the chemicals that cause problems.  Check out these two articles for reference: [#1:PDF] [#2: Site Link])

 

Maybe someone else can think of another risk, but  as far as I can tell the only REAL risk from massive quantities of two part dosing that I'm aware of is salt buildup.  

 

Salt.  As in: Na and Cl.  

 

The two ionic byproducts of dosing calcium chloride and sodium (bi)carbonate and having your corals use up the calcium and the carbonate.

 

To resolve that buildup you need regular (or periodic) water changes.  And do not front on this problem....unlike trace element toxicity, this is real and it does have consequences.  (Salinity is the #1 determinant of microbial community makeup.  Damned if I can remember where I read that, but chances are it's in one of the journal articles I have saved on my blog.)

 

If there are trace element issues for any reason, they would be resolved by the same water changes needed to resolve the NaCl accumulation.

 

For what it's worth, I've had NaCl accumulation to the tune of 1.031 s.g.  S.g that high threw things off in the tank noticeably, apparently causing a chrysophyte bloom in the process.  The system still seems to be recovering from the whole ordeal and it was more than a year ago.  At the time, I was dosing about 250mL per day of Recipe #2 into a 100 gallon system.

 

If you're doing water changes of any significant magnitude, there should be no reason for concern about "buildup" of anything.

 

(I do minimal water changes.  As long as that's true, this is an ongoing concern for me.)

[Tamberav]

7 hours ago, Break said:

Yeah, the small swings were never an issue in the past and I'm keeping less sensitive coral now (no SPS), plus my current water changes cause more of a swing than dosing 1mL of AFR would. My main concern is that my evaporation rates are not super consistent (I also use a fan for cooling) whereas the dosing pump would be (unless the power goes off that is due to the way the IceCap is programmed).

 

Do you recommend the self-mixed without trace elements due to cost or possible build up of trace elements? Given I do large frequent water changes, I don't know if build up of trace elements would really be an issue worth sacrificing the convenience of pre-mixed for. 

Randy did a post on this on R2R. There simply isn't enough trace in these suppliments to build up or even replace what's being used. 

 

It is not there in amounts for what your coral uses. It is there so if you were adding 2 part... eventually salinity would increase since 2 part has salts in it... So when you correct for that...say take a bowl of salt out and add a bowl of RODI. It would help balance that no element RODI. That's all. It is like a micro water change from what I understand.

 

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/esv-b-ionic-2-part.348026/

 

 

[Coolbreeze]

To answer the question on if you are using AFR and the short answer is yes with full disclosure.

 

1). I am using Tropic Marin Pro Reef Salt Mix.

2). All for Reef - Tested with 250ML and switch to DIY.

3). Using Zeovit System.

4). Work in progress on AWC System.

 

I started using the AFR from the the start (6 months in) and I have one Acro, Birdnest, many ZOAS and a few others and so far I have seen nothing but good results. Since the tank is only 6 1/2 months old I have limited the number of Aros until the one year mark.

 

Currently you can buy it in a bottle or do a DIY. I will attach the DIY formula in this post, but you can adjust the trace elements or eliminate them all together if you see any side effects. One thing that I do like about this product is that the DIY version is the same as the regular bottles and after your initial testing you can adjust the formula to fit your needs without changing products. So as your Acro grow then adjust to meet your uptake.

[Tom@HaslettMI]

I’be been using AFR since December 2019. Overall I like it. It is not quite as “set and forget” as I’d like. I use a Kamoer X1 to dose it. 
 

 

Tom

[reefsic]

Hi all, I'm new to this particular Forum but have been a long standing member on other forms such as RC, Zeovit and a few other local forums here in Southern Ca. Stumbled across this thread and found it very helpful! I know this thread hasn't been active since 09/2020 but I had a few concerns that have not been addressed here yet.

 

A little background; I've been in the hobby since 2001. Like plenty of reef hobbyists, I've left and came back several times. Currently, I have a 26g system primarily SPS. Everything is running great. I dose Bionic 2 part along with Mag, AcroPower and Lugols Iodine. I like to keep the big three at Ca: 400-420, Alk: 7-8 & Mg: 1400.

 

I've decided to make the switch over to TM AFR after I've finished my remaining bottles of Bionic. I understand that when using TM AFR, both Ca and Alk should eventually balance out, however if my Mg levels need adjusting, would I be able to add Mg supplementally to raise it if necessary? ...and if so would any brand Mg be suitable? ...or would I have to use TM A, B & C Liquid Balling Set? 

 

TIA

 

[jservedio]

16 minutes ago, reefsic said:

I've decided to make the switch over to TM AFR after I've finished my remaining bottles of Bionic. I understand that when using TM AFR, both Ca and Alk should eventually balance out, however if my Mg levels need adjusting, would I be able to add Mg supplementally to raise it if necessary? ...and if so would any brand Mg be suitable?

AFR has magnesium, but yeah, if you need to adjust your magnesium occasionally, literally any magnesium would be fine. I've used Kent and ESV bottled and BRS self-mix and I couldn't tell the difference between any of them.

[reefsic]

5 hours ago, jservedio said:

AFR has magnesium, but yeah, if you need to adjust your magnesium occasionally, literally any magnesium would be fine. I've used Kent and ESV bottled and BRS self-mix and I couldn't tell the difference between any of them.

Awesome, thank you for the reply!

[Tekashi Six-Line]

Anyone have any idea when all for reed liquid or powder will be available in the he US? 

[NoOneLikesADryTang]

BRS said on their Facebook page, that they were told mid-May, but that everything from Tropic Marine has been pretty spotty. 

[Coolbreeze]

Tropic Marin stuff is hard to get and I noticed BRS limits the number of items you can order at once. I needed two 200g buckets of their salt and they were out and BRS limited me to three buckets of there 80g salt. With that said it is hard to start my WB 110 with limited supply 😢 

[teamschreiba]

Anyone else seeing a carbon dosing effect with AFR? I seem to have an impossible time keeping nitrates and phosphates up and my system Is over a year old now. I understood early on given I started with dry rock but it has been a while. 
 

My system only runs filter pads and carbon and I barely do any water changes given the low nutrients. No media, skimmer, algae scrubbing, or anything like that. I do have some GHA but it’s certainly not a huge amount. Wanted to see what others were experiencing. 

[Coolbreeze]

During my last year of experiments I notice that it also depends on the type of food and how much you are feeding. In my IM30 when I feed them dry pellets for the week my nitrates and phosphate goes higher for the week. When I feed them frozen food it does not move the needle for the week. I have also started to use another type of food to try and get food to corals and fish at the same time. 

 

If you are not having issues with nitrates and phosphate then I would say you might be ahead of the game as long as all your corals are happy 😀

[A.m.P]

On 4/20/2021 at 11:50 AM, teamschreiba said:

Anyone else seeing a carbon dosing effect with AFR? I seem to have an impossible time keeping nitrates and phosphates up and my system Is over a year old now. I understood early on given I started with dry rock but it has been a while. 
 

My system only runs filter pads and carbon and I barely do any water changes given the low nutrients. No media, skimmer, algae scrubbing, or anything like that. I do have some GHA but it’s certainly not a huge amount. Wanted to see what others were experiencing. 

Yeah, I certainly do, it technically feeds bacteria and relies on them to produce the alkalinity. I've started blind dosing bits of P04 and N03 just to make sure things don't swing around too much. But I would only expect carbon dosing to get rid of P04 and N03 if you were running a skimmer, otherwise something else it taking it up, corals, microalgae or fauna, denitrifying bacteria, etc. lol.

[teamschreiba]

Yeah something else must be taking it up since I’m not using a skimmer. My zoas weren’t looking great and some of them were melting which I can only assume was related to the zero N&P. It wasn’t enough to trigger dinos though which I have had in the past. 
 

I have started dosing neophos and neonitro again. So far the zoas look about the same but it hasn’t been that long. I’m mostly getting crazy algae dust/growth on the glass that comes back two hours after cleaning. 

[hazz]

Should the bottle be stored in the frig after opening ?

[jservedio]

38 minutes ago, hazz said:

Should the bottle be stored in the frig after opening ?

Nope!

[A.m.P]

I would keep it dark though personally, had a DIY batch go sour on me after a couple months of keeping it in a foolish spot.

[hazz]

Thanks .

 

[TheKleinReef]

1. what were you using before? On previous tanks I've used seachem powders, BRS 3 part, on this tank i've been using AFR since the start.
2. how long has it been since you've converted to AFR? My most recent tank is ~2 years old and has been running AFR sthe entire time.
3. First impression (optional?) It seems to work okay for me. It took a bit to get used to adjust dosing amounts. My tank has been pendulum with nutrients. It started pretty sterile, then I had a nasty algae outbreak, now it seems to be getting better but SPS color isn't ideal.  Not sure if the AFR is playing a part in that.
4. provide a link to you tank thread so those who are interested can follow: You can see my build thread here