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Frustrating nitrates


Murphs_Reef

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Murphs_Reef

I'm really struggling with nitrates at the moment and I just can't pin down the root of the issue.

Currently reading 20ppm nitrate, 0.5 phosphate.  

 

Other parameters are absolutely fine and as expected. Alk is a bit lower than it usually is but not silly. 

 

Temp: 24

Ammonia: 0

Nitrite: 0

Salinity: 1.024

Alk:  7dkh

PH: 8.2

Ca:440

 

It's a 6 gallon tank, using an Aquaone Nanoskim, with a carbon pad. 3.5kg of live rock, and for flow I have a Jebao wp-40. The tanks been running now just short of 4 months. 

 

I have 1 yellow goby, peppermint shrimp, 4 hermits and a turbo snail. .

A hammer and duncans which are both doing really well, Xenia which won't open up anymore (but that's absolutely fine by me), some red mushrooms with are doing great and a small colony of zoas which are pretty covered in GHA. 

 

Everything other than the zoas and Xenia seem brilliant but I do have to deal with daily cleaning of GHA from the rock and glass, not major but that's probably because I'm doing the daily toothbrush clean. 

 

I do weekly 50% water changes and have been adding 1 small bag of copipods as food for the goby, I don't feed anything else at all. 

I added seachem denitrate 2 weeks ago to a low flow part of the tank and it has reduced nitrates a bit but not nearly enough. 

 

I checked the source water which is Rodi from my LFS and it reads good. But a few hours after I do a water change and retest the nitrates are back up. 

Skimmate is a bit wet but dark. 

 

I can't for the life of me figure out why they won't drop. 

 

I wonder if adding the copipods there is die off which is driving nitrates up? 

 

Oh and zero coralline algae, any that I put in on frag plugs has died off ... 

 

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Murphs_Reef

Yeah it's 0.5ppm I have checked a couple of times.. it's API and I know they aren't the most accurate but baslining against the source so indicates that there is a good increase in phosphate after a few hours of being in the tank 

 

 

IMG_20200720_170542.jpg

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23 minutes ago, Grimes said:

Yeah it's 0.5ppm I have checked a couple of times.. it's API and I know they aren't the most accurate but baslining against the source so indicates that there is a good increase in phosphate after a few hours of being in the tank 

 

 

IMG_20200720_170542.jpg

Your tank looks totally normal for a 4 month old tank - I see zero issues from the photo. You really need to ditch the API kits, like yesterday, because you are not making informed decisions when you use them. Every decision you are making about nutrients is based on faulty data.

 

While live pods are good to add to your tank, let them establish a natural population level and don't just keep dumping bags of them in. Get yourself some good frozen mysis and very small sinking pellets and feed your fish only what it'll eat. Clown Goby's are tiny fish, so you won't be feeding much and you've got a whole load of hermits who will clean up any extra food the goby doesn't eat.

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Murphs_Reef
1 minute ago, jservedio said:

Your tank looks totally normal for a 4 month old tank - I see zero issues from the photo. You really need to ditch the API kits, like yesterday, because you are not making informed decisions when you use them. Every decision you are making about nutrients is based on faulty data.

 

While live pods are good to add to your tank, let them establish a natural population level and don't just keep dumping bags of them in. Get yourself some good frozen mysis and very small sinking pellets and feed your fish only what it'll eat. Clown Goby's are tiny fish, so you won't be feeding much and you've got a whole load of hermits who will clean up any extra food the goby doesn't eat.

Thanks, yes understood the the API kits. It's been tricky starting again AND during covid to get supplies so got what I could. Most of the hardware is from my previous tank from years back. 

 

Ok I will have a go at the feeding suggestions and come back in a few weeks with the result. It's much more difficult with a nano that's for sure..👍🏼

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What were the tds levels of the store water? 

 

What were the nitrates and phosphate of the water from the store?

 

If its not 0, thats the issue.

 

Api nitrate test kit is as accurate as the others its just gives you even numbers so if under 5, it will read 0 but may be 2.

 

Otherwise its as accurate as others.

 

The api phosphate test is not good for reefs. Get a better kit.

 

What filter are you using, what media is used and how often is it changed.

 

Do you vacuum your sandbed and turkey bast the rocks?

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Seachem has a decent phosphate test kit, API N03 is fine, so are the ALK and high-range PH.

20 Nitrate isn't an issue at all, the phosphates are hard to guess at until you get a better kit but 0.5 would probably mean you should do a very large waterchange (90% would still leave you with 2 No3 and .05 P04) and monitor things from there.

If P04 starts to climb again it could be an issue with your water supply or your rocks leaching P04 as they have ALLOT of color for 4-months old.
Did you happen to buy "Dry" rock from a former setup which wasn't cured/cooked/cleaned?

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Murphs_Reef
11 hours ago, Clown79 said:

What were the tds levels of the store water? 

 

What were the nitrates and phosphate of the water from the store?

 

If its not 0, thats the issue.

 

Api nitrate test kit is as accurate as the others its just gives you even numbers so if under 5, it will read 0 but may be 2.

 

Otherwise its as accurate as others.

 

The api phosphate test is not good for reefs. Get a better kit.

 

What filter are you using, what media is used and how often is it changed.

 

Do you vacuum your sandbed and turkey bast the rocks?

Thanks, reading from the store source are 0 for both nitrate and phosphate (or as close to as the API kit shows) 

 

I have a carbon pad in the back of the nanoskim which I rinse weekly. 

 

I vacuum the sandbed  and blast the rock every time I water change weekly. 

 

9 hours ago, Amphrites said:

Seachem has a decent phosphate test kit, API N03 is fine, so are the ALK and high-range PH.

20 Nitrate isn't an issue at all, the phosphates are hard to guess at until you get a better kit but 0.5 would probably mean you should do a very large waterchange (90% would still leave you with 2 No3 and .05 P04) and monitor things from there.

If P04 starts to climb again it could be an issue with your water supply or your rocks leaching P04 as they have ALLOT of color for 4-months old.
Did you happen to buy "Dry" rock from a former setup which wasn't cured/cooked/cleaned?

The rock was live from the store. This could very well be the issue though. I didnt clean it before moving it into my tank which might well be the issue? 

 

Appreciate the API kit issue and a more reliable kit is definitely something I will invest in.. thank you guys 

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Frag Factory

Do you add the copepod water to your tank?

 

Those things are cultured in phytoplankton, to keep phyto growing faster people dump fertiliser into the water which is nitrate and phosphate.

 

I would put money on that being your problem. Either buy a baby brine shrimp net and sieve out the copepods from the water or stop feeding them.

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Murphs_Reef
29 minutes ago, Frag Factory said:

Do you add the copepod water to your tank?

 

Those things are cultured in phytoplankton, to keep phyto growing faster people dump fertiliser into the water which is nitrate and phosphate.

 

I would put money on that being your problem. Either buy a baby brine shrimp net and sieve out the copepods from the water or stop feeding them.

That's a good shout. Yes I dump the lot in. Recently I have been testing, 50% water change and then an hour later testing again..  with no real change in parameters.. BUT right after water change I am adding the pods! 

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Scrubbing the algae with a toothbrush will cause it to spread quicker.  With GHA, wait for it to grow into thick clumps and pull the entire clump out with your fingers.  You'll remove more of it in one go and won't spread it to new areas of the tank.

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Frag Factory
1 hour ago, Grimes said:

That's a good shout. Yes I dump the lot in. Recently I have been testing, 50% water change and then an hour later testing again..  with no real change in parameters.. BUT right after water change I am adding the pods! 

I fell for the same trap, I culture pods in a storage box in my back yard. I use plant fertiliser to keep the water green...

 

I use one of these to filter out the pods (just pour the water through it). It cost like $5 in your money.

 

s-l1600.thumb.jpg.bd9c89bd4f5d7604f12d86b467bd2b7d.jpg

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Murphs_Reef

I'm going to have to do a bit of testing here. I did put 2 bags in to begin with for a few weeks so if this is the source of the nitrate and phosphate, I put a ton in while 50% water changes just won't shift considering that I'm still putting a bag a week in.

 

I'll start by doing a large 90% water change and not put any pods in, test over a couple of days and see where we end up. 

 

Very interesting 

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Murphs_Reef
1 hour ago, j.falk said:

Scrubbing the algae with a toothbrush will cause it to spread quicker.  With GHA, wait for it to grow into thick clumps and pull the entire clump out with your fingers.  You'll remove more of it in one go and won't spread it to new areas of the tank.

I'm not to fussed about the algae as it comes off easy enough, I do pull the big bits out where I can and scrub the smaller bits with a toothbrush then vacuum as much as I can out. I'm more interested in resolving the issue at source really 👍🏼

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Murphs_Reef

Ok so 90% water change done... No pods added, left for half an hour and tested at phosphate 0.25ppm and nitrate 0ppm. I suspect it will take another go tomorrow to get phosphate right down. 

I will do again and monitor for a few days without adding any pods to see how it goes. I have ordered a Hanna kit to get better stats

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On 7/20/2020 at 11:25 AM, Grimes said:

I'm really struggling with nitrates at the moment and I just can't pin down the root of the issue.

Currently reading 20ppm nitrate, 0.5 phosphate.  

The root of the issue is that you're struggling.  🙂 

 

There's nothing wrong with those numbers...they will come down when they need to.

 

On 7/20/2020 at 12:08 PM, Grimes said:

IMG_20200720_170542.jpg

If you don't trust me, trust your picture and your corals.  They are telling you nothing is wrong by looking good!

 

11 hours ago, Grimes said:

Ok so 90% water change done... No pods added, left for half an hour and tested at phosphate 0.25ppm and nitrate 0ppm.

Okay, that was a bit reckless.  Nothing Good Happens Fast In A Reef Tank, after all.  

 

To be clear, there was no problem...those nutrients would eventually have been used up by corals and you had ID'd where they were coming from.

 

Don't let folks fear you out over something basic like nutrients again.  Trust your gut, trust your eyeballs.  

 

Hopefully your corals won't be too fazed by the sudden drop in nutrients.  I would not repeat the procedure.

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Your tank looks good. A reasonable amount of algae, and happy corals. Those nutrient levels definitely weren't causing a problem. In fact, the 0 nitrates are much, MUCH more likely to cause a problem (as in, they eventually will, if maintained at that level) than 20. Corals need those nutrients.

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Murphs_Reef

Well the news is, tested this morning and still on 0ppm nitrate and 0.25 phosphate so it never jumped back up right away as is usually does when pods are added, so that's  something. Not sure it absolutely confirms things yet but we will see. 

 

Corals seem to be ok thus far, or at least the same as they where prior to making tweaks. I'll leave as is for now and continue with my regular schedule. 

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Murphs_Reef

The other corals are now fully opened back up since the tweaks just 2 days ago... Not going to mess anymore. Standard water changes on Sundays. And swapping out bags of pods for pellets 👍🏼

IMG_20200725_142459.jpg

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On 7/20/2020 at 5:08 PM, Grimes said:

Yeah it's 0.5ppm I have checked a couple of times.. it's API and I know they aren't the most accurate but baslining against the source so indicates that there is a good increase in phosphate after a few hours of being in the tank 

 

 

IMG_20200720_170542.jpg

Ditch the api kit, I tested my Kh with their test and it said my Kh was 7 even though it was 12

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Murphs_Reef

Readings tonight are undetectable on both nitrate and phosphate with the API kit. Hanna kit not arrived yet but all seems well. Never added pods this weekend so looks like it could have been that after all. 

 

Now just got to remove the GHA but that should slow down now I think?

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