aclman88 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 So I adopted a tank setup from a reefer who was leaving the country and I noticed from the beginning the clownfish had sunken cheeks and body and looked a little old (he said it was around 4 years old which for a clown is getting up there). Today, I noticed a white growth (or skin deterioration) on his head. I also noticed white, thing stringy poop. Any ideas what the issue is? Tank has 0 ammonia and nitrites and nitrates in the 10-20 range. Quote Link to comment
Humblefish Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Could be the start of brook: https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/402151-brooklynella-fish-disease-information/ The white stringy poop is probably intestinal worms that the fish has had for years. I recommend treating with API General Cure and also soaking the medication in his food. 2 Quote Link to comment
Humblefish Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 General Cure should be dosed once, wait 7 days and then dose again. You will probably need to also dose Seachem Metroplex (every 48 hours) in-between the two General Cure treatments to completely knock Brook out. Just don't dose Metroplex within 48 hours of dosing General Cure. 1 Quote Link to comment
aclman88 Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share Posted July 17, 2020 37 minutes ago, Humblefish said: General Cure should be dosed once, wait 7 days and then dose again. You will probably need to also dose Seachem Metroplex (every 48 hours) in-between the two General Cure treatments to completely knock Brook out. Just don't dose Metroplex within 48 hours of dosing General Cure. Thanks. I am assuming these should be dosed in a separate hospital tank? Are they reed and invert safe if I were to dose in the display tank? Quote Link to comment
A.m.P Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 You'll need a QT tank, also Clowns can live for 20+ years as an aside, 4 years is pretty young. 2 Quote Link to comment
aclman88 Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share Posted July 17, 2020 50 minutes ago, Humblefish said: General Cure should be dosed once, wait 7 days and then dose again. You will probably need to also dose Seachem Metroplex (every 48 hours) in-between the two General Cure treatments to completely knock Brook out. Just don't dose Metroplex within 48 hours of dosing General Cure. In the linked article is says to use Quick cure... is there a difference between general cure and quick cure? I have Seahem paraguard on hand which says is a formalin alternative.. is that worth a shot? Quote Link to comment
aclman88 Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Amphrites said: You'll need a QT tank, also Clowns can live for 20+ years as an aside, 4 years is pretty young. Good to know. My google search when looking at diseases yielded 4-5 in captivity so was going off of that. Thanks! Quote Link to comment
A.m.P Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 47 minutes ago, aclman88 said: Good to know. My google search when looking at diseases yielded 4-5 in captivity so was going off of that. Thanks! No problem, the general cure is a combination medication not used for ich or brook, but for the parasite. You need the formalin in the quick-cure, and to follow the provided instructions, to treat brook. 1 Quote Link to comment
jservedio Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 45 minutes ago, aclman88 said: Good to know. My google search when looking at diseases yielded 4-5 in captivity so was going off of that. Thanks! If a clown is looking "old" after 4-5 years, something is very wrong with it. My clowns are a couple months shy of 11 years old and they have absolutely no signs of ageing and are very clearly in their prime. Like, not even the slightest hint that they are over 10 years old (other than sheer size) and I would be shocked if they don't continue to look in top form for at least another 6-8 years before they start "looking old." 3 Quote Link to comment
aclman88 Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share Posted July 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, jservedio said: If a clown is looking "old" after 4-5 years, something is very wrong with it. My clowns are a couple months shy of 11 years old and they have absolutely no signs of ageing and are very clearly in their prime. Like, not even the slightest hint that they are over 10 years old (other than sheer size) and I would be shocked if they don't continue to look in top form for at least another 6-8 years before they start "looking old." Gotcha.. yea I am thinking this poor guy was already doing poorly from the previous owner. I am setting up a 4 gallon QT (all I can manage at the moment) and move froward with paraguard dips until I can get my hands on formalin. Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment
aclman88 Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share Posted July 17, 2020 9 minutes ago, Amphrites said: No problem, the general cure is a combination medication not used for ich or brook, but for the parasite. You need the formalin in the quick-cure, and to follow the provided instructions, to treat brook. Thanks. I will run to my LFS this weekend to pick up the medication. 1 Quote Link to comment
Humblefish Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 API General Cure contains two different medications: Praziquantel and Metronidazole. When dosed in water, prazi treats external worms (e.g. flukes, turbellarians) and metro treats Brook, Uronema. When soaked in food, prazi treats intestinal worms (e.g. trematodes, cestodes) and metro treats internal flagellates (parasitic diplomonads). A few caveats: When using General Cure in order to deworm, two doses are required, and it is best to use this treatment calendar to determine when is the best time to add the second dose: http://www.marineparasites.com/paratreatmentcal.html Dosing General Cure in a reef tank is NOT recommended; however you can food soak General Cure with corals/inverts IF you also use a binder (e.g. Seachem Focus) to prevent the medications from leaching out. When using General Cure to treat for Brook & Uronema, it is best to dose Seachem Metroplex in-between the two General Cure dosages to be sure the parasites have been 100% eradicated. Just be sure you DO NOT dose Metroplex within 48 hours of dosing General Cure since BOTH medications contain Metronidazole. Quick Cure USED TO BE a reliable bath treatment for Brook & Uronema, since it contained 37% formaldehyde. My understanding is this is no longer the case with the concentration of formaldehyde contained therein and the product is now diluted/watered down. 2 Quote Link to comment
Tamberav Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Hoping you can bring that YOUNG gal back 🙂 Mine are 5-6 years now and laying eggs. I hope to have mine another 30+ years. Make sure to feed her good quality foods (no brine). I would soak pellet type foods in Selcon (it is a vitamin/fatty acid liquid). I really like LRS nano for frozen. Besides medication, she needs proper nutrition for her immune system. 5 Quote Link to comment
aclman88 Posted July 18, 2020 Author Share Posted July 18, 2020 8 hours ago, Tamberav said: Hoping you can bring that YOUNG gal back 🙂 Mine are 5-6 years now and laying eggs. I hope to have mine another 30+ years. Make sure to feed her good quality foods (no brine). I would soak pellet type foods in Selcon (it is a vitamin/fatty acid liquid). I really like LRS nano for frozen. Besides medication, she needs proper nutrition for her immune system. She has been eating pellets and I already have and use selcon so I’m hoping she will rebound. 2 Quote Link to comment
aclman88 Posted July 18, 2020 Author Share Posted July 18, 2020 9 hours ago, Humblefish said: API General Cure contains two different medications: Praziquantel and Metronidazole. When dosed in water, prazi treats external worms (e.g. flukes, turbellarians) and metro treats Brook, Uronema. When soaked in food, prazi treats intestinal worms (e.g. trematodes, cestodes) and metro treats internal flagellates (parasitic diplomonads). A few caveats: When using General Cure in order to deworm, two doses are required, and it is best to use this treatment calendar to determine when is the best time to add the second dose: http://www.marineparasites.com/paratreatmentcal.html Dosing General Cure in a reef tank is NOT recommended; however you can food soak General Cure with corals/inverts IF you also use a binder (e.g. Seachem Focus) to prevent the medications from leaching out. When using General Cure to treat for Brook & Uronema, it is best to dose Seachem Metroplex in-between the two General Cure dosages to be sure the parasites have been 100% eradicated. Just be sure you DO NOT dose Metroplex within 48 hours of dosing General Cure since BOTH medications contain Metronidazole. Quick Cure USED TO BE a reliable bath treatment for Brook & Uronema, since it contained 37% formaldehyde. My understanding is this is no longer the case with the concentration of formaldehyde contained therein and the product is now diluted/watered down. Thanks for the clarification. API General cure is sold out everywhere online so hoping local places have it. Luckily, I have some older dissolving tablets with the same medications as general cure from when I inherited my freshwater tank that should work if I can’t find General cure. Not sure if those tips of medications expire or not. On a plus the para guard dip seemed to help and I think she might be passing worms (I’m assuming the large white string looking poop is a parasite?) 1 Quote Link to comment
aclman88 Posted July 18, 2020 Author Share Posted July 18, 2020 9 hours ago, Humblefish said: When soaked in food, prazi treats intestinal worms (e.g. trematodes, cestodes) and metro treats internal flagellates (parasitic diplomonads). How do I go about soaking food if the medication is powdered? Should I Just soak the food in the water I’m using for the one hot dip? Thanks Quote Link to comment
A.m.P Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 59 minutes ago, aclman88 said: Thanks for the clarification. API General cure is sold out everywhere online so hoping local places have it. Luckily, I have some older dissolving tablets with the same medications as general cure from when I inherited my freshwater tank that should work if I can’t find General cure. Not sure if those tips of medications expire or not. On a plus the para guard dip seemed to help and I think she might be passing worms (I’m assuming the large white string looking poop is a parasite?) You may be able to find things separately as prazipro and metroplex if you cannot find general cure, otherwise Amazon may have some in stock. I have allot of trouble finding it locally as well, I also misspoke on the metro -forgot it was used to treat Brook as well- we're lucky to have people like humblefish around XD Otherwise medications do expire and lose potency over time, especially in hot conditions, but something is much better than nothing. White stringy matter, from my understanding, is usually a sign of an irritated digestive tract and even lining from it, more evidence of the parasite than the parasites themselves. 2 Quote Link to comment
A.m.P Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 44 minutes ago, aclman88 said: How do I go about soaking food if the medication is powdered? Should I Just soak the food in the water I’m using for the one hot dip? Thanks Depends, most use the powdered form and a gel agent like Seachem focus to bind the medication to the food. I don't believe it's recommend to soak liquid prazi in food, something in the mix for stabilization can further damage the GI tract IIRC. Quote Link to comment
Humblefish Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 3 hours ago, aclman88 said: (I’m assuming the large white string looking poop is a parasite?) Typically means intestinal worms (prazi treats) or internal flagellates (metro treats). 3 hours ago, aclman88 said: How do I go about soaking food if the medication is powdered? Should I Just soak the food in the water I’m using for the one hot dip? My recipe for food soaking dewormers can be found below: Using a shot glass: 1 scoop (~ 1/8 teaspoon) of medication (General Cure) 1-2 scoops Seachem Focus (makes it reef safe + binds the medication) 1 Tbsp food (preferably pellets or frozen food) A pinch of Epsom salt to help expel dead worms/parasites A few drops of saltwater or fish vitamins Stir until a medicated food slurry has been achieved. Feed after soaking for 30 mins. Refrigerate or freeze any leftovers for future use. You can feed this mix 1-2 times per day. Not recommend to exceed 2 feedings per day with medicated food. Feed daily for 2-3 weeks, or until poop returns to a solid brown or green color (no white). 2 1 Quote Link to comment
aclman88 Posted July 19, 2020 Author Share Posted July 19, 2020 I wanted to update everyone who helped in this thread. Sadly she passed overnight in her QT tank. I did everything I could, but I think by the time I adopted her she was already too far gone to have had successful treatment. Thanks everyone for the advice and support. 3 Quote Link to comment
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