How to dose?

[DyloHeath]

12 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Until you're well-practiced with any given test kit, I don't think it's a bad idea (when you have time) to run every test in triplicate – test your own results to see how consistent you are.

 

Consistency is at least as important as doing the tests correctly, BTW....so definitely pay attention to how you're doing the test each time.  Slight imperfections in the process aren't such a big deal as long as you repeat those imperfections each time you run the test. 

Yep, I think thats a great idea to triplicate for a little while.

 

Okay, I will keep the testing consistently, taking notes of everything and repeat each time.

[DyloHeath]

Here are the last 4 days. Started testing 24 hours after water change.

 

I may be making human errors as the amounts are so close to each other for the salifert tests, Hanna checker is working great for PO4 and ALK!

 

Day 1: 

Mg: 1290

Cal: 420

Alk: 9.2

PO4: 0.14

 

Day 2:

Mg: 1275

Cal: 420

Alk: 9.0

 

Day3:

Mg: 1275

Cal: 420

Alk: 8.4

 

Day 4:

Mg: 1275

Cal: 410

Alk: 8.0

PO4: 0.12

 

Day 5:

Mg: 1275

Cal: 410

Alk: 7.7

 

Day 6:

Mg: 1275

Cal:410

Alk: 7.6

PO4: 0.13

 

Day 7: 

Mg: 1260

Cal: 400

Alk: 7.2

 

@mcarroll @jservedio

 

What are you thoughts on this weeks results?

 

based on these results, is this the correct calculation:

 

Mg: 1.4ppm per day

Cal: 2.8ppm per day

Alk: 0.17dkh per day

[mcarroll]

That looks like more or less the predicted alkalinity curve....ca and mg "appear" not to be moving as the movement is so slight at this point..inside or close to the margin of test error.

[jservedio]

On 6/16/2020 at 5:12 AM, DyloHeath said:

Alk: 1.2dkh per day

You'd crash your tank if you dosed that, it looks like you are roughly 0.25dkh/day! Do a water change and keep testing alk daily for the next week. Only test Ca and Mg at the start of the week and end for a sanity check.

[DyloHeath]

26 minutes ago, jservedio said:

You'd crash your tank if you dosed that, it looks like you are roughly 0.25dkh/day! Do a water change and keep testing alk daily for the next week. Only test Ca and Mg at the start of the week and end for a sanity check.

Sorry didn't divide by 7 days (0.17 dkh/day)

 

Okay I'll track next week and go from there. Thanks

[DyloHeath]

Day 1: After waterchange

 

Mg: 1290

Cal: 425

Alk: 8.5

PO4: 0.03 (No idea how my phosphate got to this level so quickly?)

 

Day 2:

Alk: 8.1

 

Day 3:

Alk: 7.8

PO4: 0.01

 

Day 4:

Alk: 7.5

 

Day 5:

Alk: 7.2

 

Day 6:

Alk: 6.9

 

Day 7:

 

Mg: 1260

Cal: 400

Alk: 6.6

[mcarroll]

Water changes?  Test error?  Feeding change?  Etc?

[DyloHeath]

1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

Water changes?  Test error?  Feeding change?  Etc?

I'm going to test the phosphates again today, wanted to give it a few days. Will update tonight (my time).

 

But to answer your question, I am feeding my corals a lot less (They are thriving), did a sand vac with the water change.

 

 

[mcarroll]

LOTS of P comes in by way of feeding, so that (and the demand for P in the tank) makes sense.  👍

[DyloHeath]

6 hours ago, mcarroll said:

LOTS of P comes in by way of feeding, so that (and the demand for P in the tank) makes sense.  👍

Yeah I must of been over feeding big time, phosphate is 0.01 now. Wow, can't believe the difference, from 0.5 to 0.01 in the matter of 2 weeks from feeding less. Learning a lot by testing and trying new things.

[jservedio]

5 hours ago, DyloHeath said:

Yeah I must of been over feeding big time, phosphate is 0.01 now. Wow, can't believe the difference, from 0.5 to 0.01 in the matter of 2 weeks from feeding less. Learning a lot by testing and trying new things.

Just be careful you don't let it get too low, if it is too low for a while, you can start having stuff you don't want out competing the regular algae - stuff like dinos and chrysophytes. 0.01ppm is fine as long as it stays at that level, but 0.03 - 0.10ppm is a really good range where you don't have tons of nuisance algae, but you also don't have to worry about it bottoming out and you have some breathing room.

[mcarroll]

I think I'm duplicating my comments in your other thread......in summary, back to feeding as it was IMO. 😉 

[DyloHeath]

8 hours ago, jservedio said:

Just be careful you don't let it get too low, if it is too low for a while, you can start having stuff you don't want out competing the regular algae - stuff like dinos and chrysophytes. 0.01ppm is fine as long as it stays at that level, but 0.03 - 0.10ppm is a really good range where you don't have tons of nuisance algae, but you also don't have to worry about it bottoming out and you have some breathing room.

So maybe feed a little bit more I guess, find the the right amount.

[DyloHeath]

On 6/22/2020 at 9:13 AM, DyloHeath said:

Day 1: After waterchange

 

Mg: 1290

Cal: 425

Alk: 8.5

PO4: 0.03 (No idea how my phosphate got to this level so quickly?)

 

Day 2:

Alk: 8.1

 

Day 3:

Alk: 7.8

PO4: 0.01

 

Day 4:

Alk: 7.5

 

Day 5:

Alk: 7.2

 

Day 6:

Alk: 6.9

 

Day 7:

 

Mg: 1260

Cal: 400

Alk: 6.6

Based on these numbers my tank uses:

 

Mg: 4.3ppm per day

Cal: 3.6ppm per day

Alk: 0.3dkh per day

 

Now, what are your thoughts?

 

Should I start dosing to control this? And when should i test again to keep up with numbers?

 

@mcarroll @jservedio

[DyloHeath]

Here's what I've come up with.

 

I did a waterchange, waited 24 hours and tested:

 

Mg: 1300

Cal: 415

Alk: 7.9

 

Here are the parameters I want: (REVISED)

 

Cal: 450

Alk: 9

Mg: 1350

 

Difference needed to reach my desired levels:

 

Cal: 35ppm

Alk: 1.1

Mg: 50ppm

 

Using the reef chemistry calculator by JDieck based on 10 gallons, using red sea liquid foundations ABC+

 

Cal: 6.6ml

Alk: 4.1mL

Mg: 18.9

 

Obviously I well not dose all at once, here is what I dosed today:

 

Cal: 1/2 (3.3ml)

Alk: 1/2 mL/ per each gallon (5ml)

Mg: 1/3 (6.3mL)

 

These numbers should approx. result in:

 

Cal: 415>432 (+17.8ppm)

Alk: 7.9>9.2 (+1.3dkh)

Mg: 1300>1316 (+16.38ppm)

[mitten_reef]

1 hour ago, DyloHeath said:

Here's what I've come up with.

 

I did a waterchange, waited 24 hours and tested:

 

Mg: 1300

Cal: 415

Alk: 7.9

 

Here are the parameters I want:

 

Cal: 450

Alk: 11.5

Mg: 1350

 

Difference needed to reach my desired levels:

 

Cal: 35ppm

Alk: 3.6

Mg: 50ppm

 

Using the reef chemistry calculator by JDieck based on 10 gallons, using red sea liquid foundations ABC+

 

Cal: 6.6ml

Alk: 13.5mL

Mg: 18.9

 

Obviously I well not dose all at once, here is what I dosed today:

 

Cal: 1/2 (3.3ml)

Alk: 1/2 mL/ per each gallon (5ml)

Mg: 1/3 (6.3mL)

 

These numbers should approx. result in:

 

Cal: 415>432 (+17.8ppm)

Alk: 7.9>9.2 (+1.3dkh)

Mg: 1300>1316 (+16.38ppm)

You don’t want your alk at 11.5!!! Leave you zero room for error. In fact, in and of itself, will likely ruin most of your corals, regardless of acclimation. 
 

my suggestion was going to be doing one-time bump mid week to keep alk between 7-8 range, not letting it drop below 7. 

[DyloHeath]

15 minutes ago, mitten_reef said:

You don’t want your alk at 11.5!!! Leave you zero room for error. In fact, in and of itself, will likely ruin most of your corals, regardless of acclimation. 
 

my suggestion was going to be doing one-time bump mid week to keep alk between 7-8 range, not letting it drop below 7. 

Okay understood, I will lower the desired alk level to leave room for error. Was targeting my coral pro salt level of 11.5 dkh. Is this not the right level to aim for?

 

There is a lot of conflicting information. The back of the ALK foundation bottle says a mixed reef optimal level is 11.5. Because I have a mixture of SPS, LPS, and softies to account for?

 

 

[mitten_reef]

high alkalinity can promote growths, but the inherent risks are too high in my opinion. 

• corals coming from LFS with alk of 7 (sometimes might be even lower due to lack of dosing), will have a hard time adjusting to 10 dKh or above
• if you accidentally overdose the alk at that level, you'll have no room for error.

I'm slightly (very?) lazy when it comes to my reefing effort, less is more.  if you read about tank crashes, alk spikes are often cited as the cause.

I don't know the logic behind the recommendation by red sea, and I use only their products 😅 when it comes to water chemistry.  I keep my tank based on sps-dominated recommendation, I keep mostly acros.  

[Clown79]

3 hours ago, DyloHeath said:

Okay understood, I will lower the desired alk level to leave room for error. Was targeting my coral pro salt level of 11.5 dkh. Is this not the right level to aim for?

 

There is a lot of conflicting information. The back of the ALK foundation bottle says a mixed reef optimal level is 11.5. Because I have a mixture of SPS, LPS, and softies to account for?

 

 

Salt doesn't always mix to what the levels on the package states.

 

Have you tested a newly mixed batch of SW and your tank right after a waterchange?

Those are your target levels to maintain.

 

Have you checked online for the batch readings for that bucket? 

[DyloHeath]

2 hours ago, mitten_reef said:

high alkalinity can promote growths, but the inherent risks are too high in my opinion. 

• corals coming from LFS with alk of 7 (sometimes might be even lower due to lack of dosing), will have a hard time adjusting to 10 dKh or above
• if you accidentally overdose the alk at that level, you'll have no room for error.

I'm slightly (very?) lazy when it comes to my reefing effort, less is more.  if you read about tank crashes, alk spikes are often cited as the cause.

I don't know the logic behind the recommendation by red sea, and I use only their products 😅 when it comes to water chemistry.  I keep my tank based on sps-dominated recommendation, I keep mostly acros.  

Makes sense when you say most corals come from an alk of 7 from the LFS.  I agree that acclimating will be a lot harder at that much of a difference in Dkh. More of a shock.

And I also like the idea that I'm not leaving room for error, I'm a huge believer of playing it safe so I appreciate the response, Thanks.

 

I would much prefer to listen to reefers than the red sea bottle. I'll keep you updated.

[DyloHeath]

1 hour ago, Clown79 said:

Salt doesn't always mix to what the levels on the package states.

 

Have you tested a newly mixed batch of SW and your tank right after a waterchange?

Those are your target levels to maintain.

 

Have you checked online for the batch readings for that bucket? 

I haven' tested the actual salt batch in the bucket, but i've tested multiple times are a water change. And the levels don't even come close whats shown on the salt box.

 

I will look around for batch readings.

[DyloHeath]

Here are the desired parameters I would like: (REVISED)

 

Cal: 450

Alk: 9 (Here is the change, originally was aiming for 11.5, this left too little room for error, and was too high in general)

Mg: 1350

 

Using the reef chemistry calculator by JDieck based on 10 gallons, using red sea liquid foundations ABC+

 

Cal: 6.6ml

Alk: 4.1mL

Mg: 18.9

 

Obviously I well not dose all at once, here is what I dosed today:

 

Cal: 1/2 (3.3ml)

Alk: 1/2 mL/ per each gallon (5ml)

Mg: 1/3 (6.3mL)

 

These numbers should approx. result in:

 

Cal: 415>432 (+17.8ppm)

Alk: 7.9>9.2 (+1.3dkh)

Mg: 1300>1316 (+16.38ppm)

 

After I reach the desired levels, this is what my tank uses each day, and the amount of dosing to maintain:

 

Mg: 4.3ppm per day  = Dose (1.8ml)

Cal: 3.6ppm per day = Dose (0.6ml)

Alk: 0.3dkh per day  = Dose (Approx 1.1ml)

[jservedio]

8 hours ago, DyloHeath said:

After I reach the desired levels, this is what my tank uses each day, and the amount of dosing to maintain:

 

Mg: 4.3ppm per day  = Dose (1.8ml)

Cal: 3.6ppm per day = Dose (0.6ml)

Alk: 0.3dkh per day  = Dose (Approx 1.1ml)

This looks correct based on your testing - you will want to change your salt to match your parameters so that water changes aren't throwing things off once you are dosing. RSCP (and Reef Crystals) are not good salt mixes to use when you are dosing.

 

That said, you will want to test alk much more frequently than many of us that dose do because your pictures do not really match the levels of usage you are going through. Something is definitely using up that alk, and from the number and size of the corals you have, my suspicion is that it isn't the corals taking up the bulk of your alk/ca. Your magnesium usage still really doesn't make a whole lot of sense from a reef chemistry standpoint since your corals simply will not use more magnesium than calcium (should be roughly 6.5:1 Ca to Mg) and you shouldn't need to dose it unless you are using a ton 2-part (like a couple dkh/more) and your water changes won't keep up. For example, I use about 3x the alk/ca you do and only need to adjust magnesium a couple times per year or just do a few big water changes.

 

Do have you have a boom in your coralline algae growth going on? Have you checked your pumps and heater recently to make sure there is no build up on them? Any macro algaes taking off?

[mitten_reef]

29 minutes ago, jservedio said:

This looks correct based on your testing - you will want to change your salt to match your parameters so that water changes aren't throwing things off once you are dosing.

while it is true that new mixed sw can throw off the parameters at wc time, if you're manually dosing once or twice a week AND know what the anticipated after WC impact is supposed to be, you should be able to account for it on the weekly/each WC-cycle basis.  Just want to point that out.  again, I reef based on "acceptable range" rather than "precision", 😅.

 

[jservedio]

1 hour ago, mitten_reef said:

while it is true that new mixed sw can throw off the parameters at wc time, if you're manually dosing once or twice a week AND know what the anticipated after WC impact is supposed to be, you should be able to account for it on the weekly/each WC-cycle basis.  Just want to point that out.  again, I reef based on "acceptable range" rather than "precision", 😅.

 

Absolutely right, it isn't necessary at all. Just wanted OP to know that having salt that mixes up close to where your tank is already at definitely simplifies the math and reduces any swings (especially if he's at 8-9dkh and his water is 11 or 12dkh).

 

And you know I am all about  stretching "acceptable range" and "looks good enough," but that comes with years of experience and Obi-Wan levels of reef-force to just instinctively know what parameters are. OP should probably be as precise as possible in the beginning before getting all lazy.