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neyes_ice

two return lines one pump, two nano’s

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neyes_ice

hello everyone, need an opinion on plumbing 

 

sump is fiji cube -12

 

two tanks one sump, a 16 and 6 gallon

 

which one would be best for controlling the flow?

 

#1 did it that way because #3 might not fit, there will be drain lines right beside the return.

 

#2 im concerned the right return might not get enough flow.

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seabass

I like #2.  You have valves on each, so you should be able to adjust the flow independently.

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neyes_ice

the sump arrived today! here’s 2 and 3

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seabass

Nice.

 

I don't feel that an even balance of pressure and flow is required (or even desirable).  Therefore, I still like #2.  That said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with option #3.  Whichever option you prefer should work just as well as the other.

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neyes_ice
30 minutes ago, seabass said:

Nice.

 

I don't feel that an even balance of pressure and flow is required (or even desirable).  Therefore, I still like #2.  That said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with option #3.  Whichever option you prefer should work just as well as the other.

what is the reasoning for the even pressure to be not desirable? if i were to go with #2 im thinking the 16 gallon gets the straight line and the 6 gallon gets the elbowed line. it might not matter though, we will see when its installed

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seabass
2 minutes ago, neyes_ice said:

what is the reasoning for the even pressure to be not desirable?

Because you will probably need uneven flow/pressure to the different sized tanks.  I assume that the 16 gallon tank will receive more flow than the 6 gallon tank.  In order to accomplish that, you will need to independently manage the pressure in the two lines

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seabass

I should also point out that the least amount of total head pressure means more total flow.  A 90 degree elbow adds roughly a foot of head pressure.

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mcarroll

In a plumbing run that short with flow rates this low, a few elbows actually don't add up to anything significant.  For example, 100 GPH pushed through ten short-radius 90º elbows (the normal ones) on ten feet of 1" plumbing takes the pressure loss due to friction from 0.01 psi with zero elbows up to 0.02 psi of loss.  Not even enough to register in terms of feet of head pressure.

 

Elbows and friction-losses in general take on a lot more significance when you're pushing your plumbing closer to its limit...like if the OP was trying this with 3/8" tubing for some reason.  (Looks like 1" in the pictures to me, which is more than adequate for LOTS more flow than this installation will see.)

 

FYI.  Ten elbows on a 1/2" plumbing system that's otherwise like the example above would take the pressure loss from 0.12 psi with zero elbows up to 0.24 psi of loss.  Significant, but still only equal to .5 feet of added head pressure.

 

(Calculator I'm using for friction losses:  http://www.freecalc.com/fric.htm)

 

That said, I'd question whether the extra complexity on that return set up is necessary.

 

@neyes_ice I'd condider two discreet plumbing runs from the sump...one for each display.  If the 6 gallon isn't too far from the sump, a little quiet One 800 would do it.  $15.  A Quiet One 1200 for the larger tank...about $25.  Save the money on the valves and simplify the plumbing in the process.

 

Can you show a picture of the display tanks and the space around them so I can see how they are relative to each other?  (ie same height?  how far is each from the sump?)

 

Chances are you can get by with at most a single valve on the smaller tank's return line – restrict that line and the other will naturally increase its flow.  The Quiet One pumps have a built-in ability to be throttled back, so that will still be an option if you wanted to use it in tandem with the one in-line valve.

 

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neyes_ice

here’s the DTs  and the sump WIP. return pump is jebao dcp 3500 925 gph

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neyes_ice

return lines are 1/2”

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mcarroll

Guessing that the larger tank's (left) return level is about 3' off the ground....maybe only 2' above the sump's water level?  

 

The smaller tank (right) might be 2.5-3.5' over the sump water level?

 

Even if you're not using any powerbeads for supplemental flow, you still only need about one Quiet One 800 and one 1200 to flow each tank discreetly – about $40 total for both of them. I'd really consider this.  (Both are compatible with 1/2" tubing if you want to keep that.  Upgrade to 3/4" or larger if you need more flow.). You might even get away with a 400 and 800....but I'd do some more precise measurements and calculations before pulling the trigger just to be sure.

 

Even knowing that the pump you have already is controllable, I can say without exaggeration that it (at 900+GPH) is way, way, way, way, way, way too much return pump for this tiny installation.  Sell your existing pump or use it for something else.  👍

 

It's also way larger in physical dimensions than it needs to be....you have NO extra space in that return compartment.  (And FYI, even just the Quiet One 1200 would work if you still wanted to do the common plumbing system and keep it to a single return pump.)

 

Using right-sized pumps (even two) is almost always the best way to go IMO.

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neyes_ice

16G is 50” from bottom of sump to return nozzle. 6 gallon tank is 58”

 

i did overdo it incase i upgrade in the near future.

 

right now the pump is running 45% in the single display

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mcarroll

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Correct me if I've got that wrong.

 

I'd either consider not using their (rather pointless) designated holes for your return lines and drain lines or consider using those holes differently than intended if they don't work for you.  (Looks like the plate for the drains is removable.)

 

I generally favor hard-plumbing, but for an installation this small, tubing works well and is VERY easy to deploy.  It's main weakness is that its internal diameter is MUCH smaller than what you'd get from hard plumbing, so it can be restrictive on flow.  But again, at your flow rates (around 100 GPH total) that is a non-issue.

 

4 minutes ago, neyes_ice said:

16G is 50” from bottom of sump to return nozzle. 6 gallon tank is 58”

Measure from the water line in the sump to the discharges level in the display.  Guessing maybe that changes those numbers to 40" and 48", respectively?

 

Either way, still more or less within the guidance already stated for pump/flow selection.

 

1/2" plumbing doesn't change anything significantly vs 1" plumbing at the flow rates you're looking at.  👍

 

9 minutes ago, neyes_ice said:

i did overdo it incase i upgrade in the near future.

Unless you already have the new, larger tank and "the near future" is measured in days or weeks, then I don't agree with buying for "the next tank".  It never works our economically, in spite of seeming like it should.  

 

For one thing, that next tank often takes A LOT LONGER to arrive than one thinks it will and could very well end up being a MUCH different shape and size than you're imagining today.  

 

For another thing....yes you can turn down your monster pump....but it will still cost more up front and use more power every day than a right-sized pump pushing the same amount of water.  Not only that, but it'll be half worn out when you take it to the next tank.  (A significant factor on a cheap pump.)

 

Last, these pumps depend on the flow through them for cooling....below a certain rate of flow, the pump (and impeller) will be overheating, which causes premature wear (if not premature failure, depending on the extent).

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neyes_ice

the 16 gallon is hard plumbed most of the way. right now the thicker black hose is the emergency drain. that will be the main drain for the 6 gallon soon. the 6 gallon has a union after the overflow box then hose in the middle then pvc at the end for the gate valve. reason for this is the 6 gallon overflows from the side, then goes to the back and around the 16 gallon cabinet. thats why i opted to use a soft plumbing

 

i get your point on future upgrades, most likely i won’t. but what i have seen around here is people oversize the equipment to it doesn’t have to work 100% which will in turn “shorten” its lifespan. but if this is not the case the pump will be sold. 

 

i do have a mighty jet 325 from the old tanks. might just use that for the 16 gallon or maybe it’s enough for both? i was going to use that for the turf scrubber. if i’m going to use the mighty jet should i just use a Y barbed splitter and those two little fishies ball valves? 😷

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