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Mitten_reef’s WB FRAG 55.2

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mitten_reef
6 hours ago, xiaoxiy said:

I was wondering if that was a AtomicBallz vs Amazeballs Goni. Love it.

Check with @pokerdobe, he may have both available at some point, or check with Ty at <https://farmertyfrags.com>.

he has both goniopora, you can also search for him on IG.  Be warned, I got @ECLS Reefer hooked on Ty’s stuff, shop carefully 😂.

Those who have been following my past and current journals would know I’m a fan of minimal filtration equipment, often just filter floss to catch any uneaten food.  With that, I still experienced rather low nutrients in my system. So now I’ve decided that I’m gonna experiment with a “natural filtration” system. I have two hitchhiker clams in the display, about 1-2” and a big maxima (and I’m planning a second Maxima relatively soon). In the sump, I’m going to begin to introduce nps gorgonian and some structurally-interesting/colorful sponges.  Here’s my first piece of future nps-dominant sump, yellow finger (diodogorgia) gorgonian. Today I removed the filter pad, which is already the only form of filtration left in this system other than the rocks. We’ll see how the nutrients level and algae growth react to not having any filter at all this week. I’m gonna try to maintain the same feeding routine.  
 

C4B4C9F4-180C-4B38-B951-F0E8AA92C55A.thumb.jpeg.6bd883cead74a0206d8960e3e4bb2d61.jpeg

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ECLS Reefer
26 minutes ago, mitten_reef said:

Check with @pokerdobe, he may have both available at some point, or check with Ty at <https://farmertyfrags.com>.

he has both goniopora, you can also search for him on IG.  Be warned, I got @ECLS Reefer hooked on Ty’s stuff, shop carefully 😂.

 

 

We don’t talk about others addictions 🤫🤫🤫🤫

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mitten_reef
On 10/16/2021 at 9:02 PM, mitten_reef said:

Check with @pokerdobe, he may have both available at some point, or check with Ty at <https://farmertyfrags.com>.

he has both goniopora, you can also search for him on IG.  Be warned, I got @ECLS Reefer hooked on Ty’s stuff, shop carefully 😂.

Those who have been following my past and current journals would know I’m a fan of minimal filtration equipment, often just filter floss to catch any uneaten food.  With that, I still experienced rather low nutrients in my system. So now I’ve decided that I’m gonna experiment with a “natural filtration” system. I have two hitchhiker clams in the display, about 1-2” and a big maxima (and I’m planning a second Maxima relatively soon). In the sump, I’m going to begin to introduce nps gorgonian and some structurally-interesting/colorful sponges.  Here’s my first piece of future nps-dominant sump, yellow finger (diodogorgia) gorgonian. Today I removed the filter pad, which is already the only form of filtration left in this system other than the rocks. We’ll see how the nutrients level and algae growth react to not having any filter at all this week. I’m gonna try to maintain the same feeding routine.  
 

C4B4C9F4-180C-4B38-B951-F0E8AA92C55A.thumb.jpeg.6bd883cead74a0206d8960e3e4bb2d61.jpeg

@Subsea, do you have any recommendations for common NPS items/species to improve particulate filtration in the sump?  

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Subsea

Oysters as well as cryptic sponges should assist with particulate filtration.  
 

I have little experience with NPS.

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mitten_reef
1 hour ago, Subsea said:

Oysters as well as cryptic sponges should assist with particulate filtration.  
 

I have little experience with NPS.

I've seen oyster mentioned in a few places.  are fishmonger's "fresh oysters" alive enough to drop in the sump?  how do you typically acquire yours?  how fast do they consume the calcium/alk?

 

I saw one red sponge and had it on hold at LFS this past wknd.  it looked a little rough, covered by algae and gunk.  he was gonna drop it in the hermit tank to get them to clean up the sponge a bit.  i'll see what they look like next time i stop in.  

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Subsea
2 hours ago, mitten_reef said:

I've seen oyster mentioned in a few places.  are fishmonger's "fresh oysters" alive enough to drop in the sump?  how do you typically acquire yours?  how fast do they consume the calcium/alk?

 

I saw one red sponge and had it on hold at LFS this past wknd.  it looked a little rough, covered by algae and gunk.  he was gonna drop it in the hermit tank to get them to clean up the sponge a bit.  i'll see what they look like next time i stop in.  

I get live mussels, clams & oysters from HEB seafood counter.  All will survive in your reef tank depending on maturity of your system. 

 

I prefer bringing  in diver collected live rock with much more diversity than the above bivalves.  I can’t tell you how much alkalinity they consume.  I don’t measure it.  After 50 yrs of reefkeeping, I choose easy softies & lps along with more interesting filter feeders like flame scallops, sea apples and ornamental sponges.  Not much need for strict alkalinity or nutrient management, they do fine handling that for themselves.  
 

A more complex issue than particulates in the water is dissolved organic carbon.  DOC from coral is mostly lipids & proteins while DOC from macro is mostly carbohydrates.  Cryptic sponges will remove all types of DOC 100 times more effective than activated carbon and activated carbon removes DOC 5 fold more effective than protein skimmers.  I will look for Dutch research paper on “sponge loop”.  Ornamental sponges are not included in this nutrient recycling process, only cryptic sponges.  I will summarize:  

 

Cryptic sponges remove so much POC (particulate organic carbon) & DOC (dissolved organic carbon), they should double in size every 6 hrs but for the detritus they shed.  This detritus is the beginning of the microbial loop which moves organic carbon up the food chain.

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Subsea

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24092742/

Abstract

Ever since Darwin's early descriptions of coral reefs, scientists have debated how one of the world's most productive and diverse ecosystems can thrive in the marine equivalent of a desert. It is an enigma how the flux of dissolved organic matter (DOM), the largest resource produced on reefs, is transferred to higher trophic levels. Here we show that sponges make DOM available to fauna by rapidly expelling filter cells as detritus that is subsequently consumed by reef fauna. This "sponge loop" was confirmed in aquarium and in situ food web experiments, using (13)C- and (15)N-enriched DOM. The DOM-sponge-fauna pathway explains why biological hot spots such as coral reefs persist in oligotrophic seas--the reef's paradox--and has implications for reef ecosystem functioning and conservation strategies.

 


https://wamas.org/forums/topic/78578-mulm-in-a-reef-tank/

 

  • paul bOracle Reefer
  • WAMAS Speaker
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island NY

I think one of the most important, and least understood or mentioned things in a reef tank is "mulm". That stuff that grows in the dark portions of a tank if it is set up long enough. "Mulm" is a combination of algae, sponges, bacteria, pods, worms, detritus, poop and any thing else that can be propagated or grown in the dark. I realize most people would immediately get out the sponge, razor blade or grenade to remove it but there is a word I like to use to describe those people. That word is "wrong". Mulm is a natural product that you will find in the sea all over the world. Our tanks run on bacteria, algae and a food chain. Bacteria and a food chain are dependent on having a place to reproduce. Mulm is the perfect place. Rocks and glass are flat surfaces that are only two dimensional. Mulm makes these places three dimensional allowing much more space for bacteria and microscopic organisms to grow and do the macarana. (Then love to dance) Pods, which are needed for any small fish also need to eat and their numbers are directly related to how much food they can get their hands on (or whatever pods use to eat with) The more food, the more pods, the more pods, the easier to keep smaller fish. Larger fish such as copperbands and angels also eat pods.

Many people try to keep fish such as pipefish, mandarins or other dragonettes in a sterile tank and while feeding them a couple of times a day with tiger pods or some other expensive food. Those types of fish will not live for long in such a tank and they certainly won't spawn which I consider the "only" criteria to determine the state of health for any paired fish.

Mulm (after a while, maybe a few years) should grow on the back and sides of glass as well as under rocks.

Here in this picture of my clingfish, the mulm appears green. It is really brownish and that fish is on the side of my tank. I brightened up the picture and turned it sideways because it was in the dark and the fish was hard to see.

There is a thick layer of it on the back of my tank where my mandarins and pipefish like to hunt. My long spined urchin also grazes there most of the time as there is not much algae in my tank for him to eat. He is many years old as are the mandarins and pipefish and they are dependent on this food source.

A sterile tank IMO is the biggest problem we have keeping certain fish healthy.

Sterile is good in an operating room but very bad in a tank.

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mitten_reef
7 hours ago, Subsea said:

I get live mussels, clams & oysters from HEB seafood counter.  All will survive in your reef tank depending on maturity of your system. 

 

I prefer bringing  in diver collected live rock with much more diversity than the above bivalves.  I can’t tell you how much alkalinity they consume.  I don’t measure it.  After 50 yrs of reefkeeping, I choose easy softies & lps along with more interesting filter feeders like flame scallops, sea apples and ornamental sponges.  Not much need for strict alkalinity or nutrient management, they do fine handling that for themselves.  
 

A more complex issue than particulates in the water is dissolved organic carbon.  DOC from coral is mostly lipids & proteins while DOC from macro is mostly carbohydrates.  Cryptic sponges will remove all types of DOC 100 times more effective than activated carbon and activated carbon removes DOC 5 fold more effective than protein skimmers.  I will look for Dutch research paper on “sponge loop”.  Ornamental sponges are not included in this nutrient recycling process, only cryptic sponges.  I will summarize:  

 

Cryptic sponges remove so much POC (particulate organic carbon) & DOC (dissolved organic carbon), they should double in size every 6 hrs but for the detritus they shed.  This detritus is the beginning of the microbial loop which moves organic carbon up the food chain.

I may just stick with photosynthetic clams for bivalve filtration (I like things that do double duty). But I’ll keep in mind next time I visit the fish stand I go to for fresh seafood to check their oyster and mussels. 
I do have a few varieties of non-ornamental sponge in the tank and the sump, and they’re growing quite steadily.  I’m, in fact, battling against a particularly fast-growing orange mat sponge that has spread all across a few branches of my scape, as well as encroaching on a few sps. There should be an example image of it on the last two pages here. Since this sponge is rapidly growing, and other are growing steadily, I must have plenty of extra POC and DOC as you summarized.
I recently found that pencil urchins will eat sponge and should be able to keep them in check in my display.  I just need to find one small enough to fit tiny nooks and cracks of a nano tank.  I’m slowly coming to terms with the fact that I probably won’t be able to eradicate them out from the display completely.  So having the check and balance with urchins will be helpful, I also like that the urchins have been freshening up the rocks for me quite a bit. 



 

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mitten_reef
6 hours ago, Subsea said:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24092742/

Abstract

Ever since Darwin's early descriptions of coral reefs, scientists have debated how one of the world's most productive and diverse ecosystems can thrive in the marine equivalent of a desert. It is an enigma how the flux of dissolved organic matter (DOM), the largest resource produced on reefs, is transferred to higher trophic levels. Here we show that sponges make DOM available to fauna by rapidly expelling filter cells as detritus that is subsequently consumed by reef fauna. This "sponge loop" was confirmed in aquarium and in situ food web experiments, using (13)C- and (15)N-enriched DOM. The DOM-sponge-fauna pathway explains why biological hot spots such as coral reefs persist in oligotrophic seas--the reef's paradox--and has implications for reef ecosystem functioning and conservation strategies.

 


https://wamas.org/forums/topic/78578-mulm-in-a-reef-tank/

 

  • paul bOracle Reefer
  • WAMAS Speaker
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island NY

I think one of the most important, and least understood or mentioned things in a reef tank is "mulm". That stuff that grows in the dark portions of a tank if it is set up long enough. "Mulm" is a combination of algae, sponges, bacteria, pods, worms, detritus, poop and any thing else that can be propagated or grown in the dark. I realize most people would immediately get out the sponge, razor blade or grenade to remove it but there is a word I like to use to describe those people. That word is "wrong". Mulm is a natural product that you will find in the sea all over the world. Our tanks run on bacteria, algae and a food chain. Bacteria and a food chain are dependent on having a place to reproduce. Mulm is the perfect place. Rocks and glass are flat surfaces that are only two dimensional. Mulm makes these places three dimensional allowing much more space for bacteria and microscopic organisms to grow and do the macarana. (Then love to dance) Pods, which are needed for any small fish also need to eat and their numbers are directly related to how much food they can get their hands on (or whatever pods use to eat with) The more food, the more pods, the more pods, the easier to keep smaller fish. Larger fish such as copperbands and angels also eat pods.

Many people try to keep fish such as pipefish, mandarins or other dragonettes in a sterile tank and while feeding them a couple of times a day with tiger pods or some other expensive food. Those types of fish will not live for long in such a tank and they certainly won't spawn which I consider the "only" criteria to determine the state of health for any paired fish.

Mulm (after a while, maybe a few years) should grow on the back and sides of glass as well as under rocks.

Here in this picture of my clingfish, the mulm appears green. It is really brownish and that fish is on the side of my tank. I brightened up the picture and turned it sideways because it was in the dark and the fish was hard to see.

There is a thick layer of it on the back of my tank where my mandarins and pipefish like to hunt. My long spined urchin also grazes there most of the time as there is not much algae in my tank for him to eat. He is many years old as are the mandarins and pipefish and they are dependent on this food source.

A sterile tank IMO is the biggest problem we have keeping certain fish healthy.

Sterile is good in an operating room but very bad in a tank.

The mulm. 
yeah, I had a nice little pile in the sump, I decided to stir them up to feed the display the other week. I ended up with lil piles of it all over the tank floor. They’re almost inert, from nutrient-leaching, perspective. I hadn’t seen any changes to algae growth after stirring it up. But that was when I also ran the filter floss, catching any floating one out of the water column.  But interesting point of it being bacteria home and potential food for smaller-to-micro fauna that may fine their particulate-like size the only thing edible. 
 

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Subsea
9 hours ago, mitten_reef said:

I may just stick with photosynthetic clams for bivalve filtration (I like things that do double duty). But I’ll keep in mind next time I visit the fish stand I go to for fresh seafood to check their oyster and mussels. 
I do have a few varieties of non-ornamental sponge in the tank and the sump, and they’re growing quite steadily.  I’m, in fact, battling against a particularly fast-growing orange mat sponge that has spread all across a few branches of my scape, as well as encroaching on a few sps. There should be an example image of it on the last two pages here. Since this sponge is rapidly growing, and other are growing steadily, I must have plenty of extra POC and DOC as you summarized.
I recently found that pencil urchins will eat sponge and should be able to keep them in check in my display.  I just need to find one small enough to fit tiny nooks and cracks of a nano tank.  I’m slowly coming to terms with the fact that I probably won’t be able to eradicate them out from the display completely.  So having the check and balance with urchins will be helpful, I also like that the urchins have been freshening up the rocks for me quite a bit. 



 

If your tank was larger, angels & tangs would groom your sponges for you.  You are correct about urchins eating everything.  The fact you have several variety of sponges says much for the biodiversity in your system.  I will go back and read more of your tank journal.

 

 

 

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mitten_reef
1 hour ago, Subsea said:

If your tank was larger, angels & tangs would groom your sponges for you.  You are correct about urchins eating everything.  The fact you have several variety of sponges says much for the biodiversity in your system.  I will go back and read more of your tank journal.

 

 

 

sorry, there hasn't been much action or records on the actual system since it's been up and running.  mostly just livestock update.  

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mitten_reef

Topdown looks so nice this afternoon 

 

9EB74EF3-6A87-4C69-B4B0-9A073734CFBD.thumb.jpeg.bef3fb111103574e8bed78588a819d48.jpeg

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debbeach13

Yeas very pretty 

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NoOneLikesADryTang

You’re going to tease us with one clam photo and brag about how nice it looks topless and not let us see the all the goodies? WTF bro! Ain’t no fun if the homies can’t see some! 

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mitten_reef
22 minutes ago, debbeach13 said:

Yeas very pretty 

Thanks Deb!

3 minutes ago, NoOneLikesADryTang said:

You’re going to tease us with one clam photo and brag about how nice it looks topless and not let us see the all the goodies? WTF bro! Ain’t no fun if the homies can’t see some! 

so more like this?  I only took two pics....no full frontal, uhhh, full tank shot. 
C0980EEF-7C92-4026-A9EC-CBCA8AE202AD.thumb.jpeg.127775f82460b2b6e25c93467eeb6f3e.jpeg

 

Decluttered the sandbed this past few days, made it look a lot less junkyard-y. 

 

 

 

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NoOneLikesADryTang

That’s definitely a step in the right direction! Everything looks so happy! 
 

Who doesn’t love a full frontal shot? Also, I’m man enough to admit I like side boob shots as well!

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mitten_reef
1 minute ago, NoOneLikesADryTang said:

That’s definitely a step in the right direction! Everything looks so happy! 
 

Who doesn’t love a full frontal shot? Also, I’m man enough to admit I like side boob shots as well!

Actually I did take a partial front shot of what used to be the junkyard 

 

733B852D-D2E7-4E0B-973E-998635FC97BE.thumb.jpeg.fcd072bc3bec5b8f47be300c0df9f1cc.jpeg

 

 

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mitten_reef

So, it isn't in my tank.  But it's in a tank of someone I actually know, so close enough.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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joshthebox
2 hours ago, mitten_reef said:

So, it isn't in my tank.  But it's in a tank of someone I actually know, so close enough.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The ultimate goal of keeping corals! Beautiful. 

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mitten_reef
2 hours ago, joshthebox said:

The ultimate goal of keeping corals! Beautiful. 

Right?  The ultimate goal of a Reefer for sure!!

 

and here we go with another fts Friday

F82E61AD-38C9-46BE-923C-CED9F06DDBDB.thumb.jpeg.eb8a50cc867f93d486a0c780d74c65ab.jpeg

 

 

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mitten_reef

These were, at one time, utter chaos zoas - not so much any more. Wonder where/how it’ll end up

7086182E-1CBB-4F64-B1C8-04338C179E07.thumb.jpeg.9e5d9e4c5688ec3db73e5ad1be19fda5.jpeg

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mitten_reef

@jservedio and @ECLS Reefer you're the only two camera nerds I know on here.  i'd normally also share/consult with @Cannedfish, but he's doing his disappearing act again.  I came across a new feature for newer-model Olympus cameras.  They now have built-in focus-stacking and bracketing.  so you no longer need a macro slide rail.  There are a few other blogs of their site that discuss the feature - but this one seems most applicable/related to our hobby.

 

https://learnandsupport.getolympus.com/learn-center/photography-tips/macro/autumn-mushrooms-focus-stacking-bracketing

 

I thought you might want to keep an eye out for your respective brand of camera equipment to see if they release some similar feature.  or something to keep an eye out for for future... 

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ECLS Reefer
7 hours ago, mitten_reef said:

@jservedio and @ECLS Reefer you're the only two camera nerds I know on here.  i'd normally also share/consult with @Cannedfish, but he's doing his disappearing act again.  I came across a new feature for newer-model Olympus cameras.  They now have built-in focus-stacking and bracketing.  so you no longer need a macro slide rail.  There are a few other blogs of their site that discuss the feature - but this one seems most applicable/related to our hobby.

 

https://learnandsupport.getolympus.com/learn-center/photography-tips/macro/autumn-mushrooms-focus-stacking-bracketing

 

I thought you might want to keep an eye out for your respective brand of camera equipment to see if they release some similar feature.  or something to keep an eye out for for future... 

yeah where has @Cannedfish gone? Is he alive or has he gotten the Vid or what? 😢

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mitten_reef
8 hours ago, ECLS Reefer said:

yeah where has @Cannedfish gone? Is he alive or has he gotten the Vid or what? 😢

probably got burned out after the BRS saga and tank didn't recover from the move, I suspect.

 

on a different note, lost the pygmy angel yesterday.  it jumped, found behind the tank this morning, sigh

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jservedio
16 hours ago, mitten_reef said:

@jservedio and @ECLS Reefer you're the only two camera nerds I know on here.  i'd normally also share/consult with @Cannedfish, but he's doing his disappearing act again.  I came across a new feature for newer-model Olympus cameras.  They now have built-in focus-stacking and bracketing.  so you no longer need a macro slide rail.  There are a few other blogs of their site that discuss the feature - but this one seems most applicable/related to our hobby.

 

https://learnandsupport.getolympus.com/learn-center/photography-tips/macro/autumn-mushrooms-focus-stacking-bracketing

 

I thought you might want to keep an eye out for your respective brand of camera equipment to see if they release some similar feature.  or something to keep an eye out for for future... 

The FX Nikons have this - I know it comes on the D850. I have HDR bracketing built in, but I've still got to do focus stacking the old fashioned way by hand. My next camera body will be a used FX, so maybe in like...10 more years I'll be able to do it automated!

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