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New tank questions


BrianW89

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Hi everyone,

 

New to the hobby and just setup my biocube 16 earlier this week. 

 

Used the natures ocean live sand and got 15lbs of cured live rock from my LFS. 

 

My tank is currently cycling.

 

I got a 480 GPH powerhead from a friend and installed that yesterday. I had to reposition it numerous times due to it pushing my sand around but, finally found a spot that it does not disturb anything. 

 

I do plan on getting corals at some point.

 

Along with the return pump would this be too much flow for my tank?

 

I also feel like I have a lot of live rock in my tank. I can access the sides and back with my gravel vacuum. Does my live rock setup look okay for when I get coral? I'm particularly worried about being able to get anything on the top piece of live rock or is that enough room?

 

Any opinions are appreciated because I am overthinking this 😂 thank you for your time!

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Thrassian Atoll

Flow rates really depend on what corals you go with.  I don’t think you will have too much.  The rocks are a little too high imo.  It’s really preference though.  I think pulling that middle rock and making a nice bridge with the top rock would look good.

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I was going to start with the beginner corals that I am researching info on. Mushrooms, leathers, zoanthids, and other ones that I can find that have easier needs. Corals will not be introduced for a while until I understand their needs more. Thanks for the info I am going to pull that middle piece out and try different setups with the other 2. I felt like it could be a little too high.

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Thrassian Atoll

Yeah, just rearrange everything a few times, pulling different pieces and stacking them differently.  Just look through here at tanks, especially the tanks of the month to get some good ideas on the aquascape.  

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I'm inclined to agree, the rocks go up a bit too high. Partly because you want open water up at the top for fish to move, partly because you want that space for corals to grow into, partly just because the empty space looks good. Try not to take the rocks out, you need the biofilter space, just put 'em elsewhere if you can. 

 

Any cool critters show up on your rock? It doesn't look like it has the amount of life on it that I'd expect from ocean rock. 

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Okay! I've been looking at tanks on here for ideas. Once I get a good setup I'll post a picture of it. 

 

Nope no critters or tagalongs! The LFS has 2 different tubs of live rock. He said one should be critter free and the other wasn't. I went with critter free because at the time I was still getting small temperature jumps in the day but I fixed that with an air conditioner in the room. 

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That's probably just rock that's been stuck in an established system for awhile. It'll work for your cycle, but I'd highly recommend getting a couple pieces of critter rock at some point. You need the scavengers, detritivores, and algae on it to be able to get a biodiverse system going, which is your fastest and best route to stability. Most of the stuff that would hitchhike in will eventually come in on frag plugs and the like, but very slowly, and there'll be a lot of time for pest algae to get established in the meantime. 

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I'm going to take a trip to a different store later this week that's farther away to see what they have. Just limited on stores in my area unfortunately.

 

Well this is what I got with my rock.... after hours of trying different things I got the hammer and flathead screw driver out. Didn't have to lose any rock this way. I couldnt get anything to look good with those big pieces.

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Thrassian Atoll
14 minutes ago, BrianW89 said:

I'm going to take a trip to a different store later this week that's farther away to see what they have. Just limited on stores in my area unfortunately.

 

Well this is what I got with my rock.... after hours of trying different things I got the hammer and flathead screw driver out. Didn't have to lose any rock this way. I couldnt get anything to look good with those big pieces.

20200511_113733.jpg


That looks pretty good.  Lots of different tiers for corals.

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A hammer and anything like a chisel will get you all sorts of nice results in reefing. You have what should be a very nice setup there, with some good hiding places and lots of spots to put corals.

 

What does the rock look like inside? Is it nice and porous, or kinda dense? 

 

What are you planning to keep? In a tank that size, you should probably keep no more than 3 fish, maybe 4 if you pick especially small ones. I'd strongly recommend a shrimpgoby and pistol shrimp, they're fascinating to watch. 

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22 minutes ago, Tired said:

A hammer and anything like a chisel will get you all sorts of nice results in reefing. You have what should be a very nice setup there, with some good hiding places and lots of spots to put corals.

 

What does the rock look like inside? Is it nice and porous, or kinda dense? 

 

What are you planning to keep? In a tank that size, you should probably keep no more than 3 fish, maybe 4 if you pick especially small ones. I'd strongly recommend a shrimpgoby and pistol shrimp, they're fascinating to watch. 

Thank you! I feel much better about my rock work now. I love how I almost have shelves now. It's at least 1 thing to knock off my stress list.

 

The rock was porous inside. I was actually very surprised how easy it was to break.

 

Fish wise I was going to go with a pair of the black and white oscelaris clowns, a yellow watchman goby, and I really want a pistol shrimp for the symbiotic relationship they are supposed to develop. 

 

I think this would be an okay amount for this size tank right?

 

The research I do on pistol shrimp worry me though. Do you have a kind you prefer? From what I read on them some can get an little aggressive.

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Sounds like a good stock for that tank. You may consider another, smaller watchman goby (yasha haze and antenna goby come to mind) for just a bit less bioload, but it should be fine either way. Preferably, add the goby first, so it has time to get tunnels established before the aggressive clowns.

 

Pistol shrimp get blamed for things they don't do sometimes, and people who have really aggressive ones often got the wrong species. You want either a tiger pistol shrimp (gets 2-3") or a candycane pistol (gets a bit over 1"), depending on tank size and what shrimpgoby you get. Tigers move a LOT of sand, so I'd be inclined to suggest a candycane pistol for a tank that size. They're snappy, but not aggressive, and lack the killing power in their snap to kill anything more durable than a worm. Green pistols can work, too, but they're a bit more difficult to properly ID. 

Pistol shrimp appreciate building materials. See if you can get some clamshells or the like, bust them up into pieces from about 1/4" to 1" across, and scatter them around the rockwork. They'll use those to shore up their tunnels, and even to build roofs so they can extend tunnels out into the sandbed and away from the rocks. 

Also, don't put small coral frags directly on the sandbed, or close to it. Your pistol WILL find them and use them for things. Large frags are fine on the sand, and small things are fine up high, but pistols are little thieves. I love them, but they're thieves. As a general rule, anything that's as wide as the shrimp is long, or smaller, is up for grabs. Flat shell pieces up to twice the length of the shrimp are probably workable, too, they're strong. 

 

Porous rock is the good stuff. If it breaks easily, it's probably less dense like you should go for. Lots of places for things to hide, easier for burrowing creatures to get inside, lots of space for bacteria. 

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11 minutes ago, Tired said:

Sounds like a good stock for that tank. You may consider another, smaller watchman goby (yasha haze and antenna goby come to mind) for just a bit less bioload, but it should be fine either way. Preferably, add the goby first, so it has time to get tunnels established before the aggressive clowns.

 

Pistol shrimp get blamed for things they don't do sometimes, and people who have really aggressive ones often got the wrong species. You want either a tiger pistol shrimp (gets 2-3") or a candycane pistol (gets a bit over 1"), depending on tank size and what shrimpgoby you get. Tigers move a LOT of sand, so I'd be inclined to suggest a candycane pistol for a tank that size. They're snappy, but not aggressive, and lack the killing power in their snap to kill anything more durable than a worm. Green pistols can work, too, but they're a bit more difficult to properly ID. 

Pistol shrimp appreciate building materials. See if you can get some clamshells or the like, bust them up into pieces from about 1/4" to 1" across, and scatter them around the rockwork. They'll use those to shore up their tunnels, and even to build roofs so they can extend tunnels out into the sandbed and away from the rocks. 

Also, don't put small coral frags directly on the sandbed, or close to it. Your pistol WILL find them and use them for things. Large frags are fine on the sand, and small things are fine up high, but pistols are little thieves. I love them, but they're thieves. As a general rule, anything that's as wide as the shrimp is long, or smaller, is up for grabs. Flat shell pieces up to twice the length of the shrimp are probably workable, too, they're strong. 

 

Porous rock is the good stuff. If it breaks easily, it's probably less dense like you should go for. Lots of places for things to hide, easier for burrowing creatures to get inside, lots of space for bacteria. 

Okay I was thinking it would be an okay amount at least from the research I've done on all of them. I am going to do some research on them gobys though since I have not seen them yet.

 

I'm just at the beginning of my cycle so I'm assuming it's going to be multiple weeks before I get any fish.

 

When I am ready I was going to get my goby and pistol shrimp first at the same time and then get the clowns.

 

Thank you for the info on the pistol shrimp. The candy cane seems like it would be a good option then. I mainly read up on the tiger and I guess that's what spooked me.

 

I really like the rock I broke the one big peice in half with my hands (and I'm a small guy!) So there is plenty of little crevices and hiding spots now.

 

Just waiting, testing, and keeping track of perimeters daily. 

 

When I do get fish I'll be posting them!!!

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Shrimpgobies are all pretty much the same, aside from size, though research is always good. They defend their tunnels, but otherwise don't tend to be too aggressive, and are generally easy to feed and otherwise keep happy. 

 

If that live rock is actually cycled, your cycle should be done instantly. Good live rock has enough bacteria on it to do that. REALLY good live rock has the bacteria, and all the critters you'll need as well, plus some fun stuff like tunicates and sponges. 

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I went and bought 3 brand new 5 gallon blue containers of RO water from the Clearwater store down the road and used that for water. It tested 0 ppm for ammonia with my freshwater test kit that I have for cichlids. I wanted to check before mixing it.

 

I added the natures ocean along with live rock. The guy that owns the local fish store said I should have no cycle either and that after a day I should be safe to add a fish. 

 

The first time I tested my water with my saltwater test kit after I put in the live rock and live sand I had about 0.25 on my ammonia and 0 on nitrite and nitrates. 

 

That was 5 days ago. When I tested today ammonia showed about 2.0 ppm, nitrites are at 0.25, and nitrates are about 5.0 ppm. 

 

So I don't know what happened but I have ammonia. Maybe I did something wrong.

 

The only thing I have in my filtration is filter floss. I thought about putting in the bag of chemi pure elite I ordered but I haven't yet.

 

So I'm assuming my tank isn't cycled.

 

 

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Probably something on the rock is dead and decaying. The good news is, you have nitrates! That means all the types of bacteria you need are already present. You just need to give it some time for those bacteria to multiply. Your tank probably isn't cycled, no, but it shouldn't take long. 

 

It's also possible that your tank is cycled, but the cycle is being overwhelmed by a large amount of decay. Does anything stink? Did you see anything that looked alive on the rocks? 

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1 minute ago, Tired said:

Probably something on the rock is dead and decaying. The good news is, you have nitrates! That means all the types of bacteria you need are already present. You just need to give it some time for those bacteria to multiply. Your tank probably isn't cycled, no, but it shouldn't take long. 

 

It's also possible that your tank is cycled, but the cycle is being overwhelmed by a large amount of decay. Does anything stink? Did you see anything that looked alive on the rocks? 

The nitrates showed up in yesterday's test and was a little higher today. I examined the rock pretty well and I have not noticed anything on it or anything moving around the tank. I try to look with the blue light on and with a flashlight at night when the lights are off.

 

The tank does not have a smell. I thought it could possibly be the live sand but the bag does not expire until Jan 22 of 2022. I kept it lol. It smelled like what I would think wet sand would smell like. (I live in ohio, we lack oceans) 

 

I'm going to use chemi pure elite and purigen for filtration but from what I read I shouldn't add it or do water changes on it while its cycling so I'm just kicking rocks waiting to see what happens.

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Don't add chemipure or purigen unless they're actually needed. Otherwise, you can end up stripping too much nutrition from your water and starving your corals.

 

If your ammonia gets too high, it can slow the growth of your good bacteria. Water changes are good if ammonia gets high, but what "high" is seems to be pretty heavily debated. Safe to say, over 5 is probably not good. 

 

I would suspect something is decaying in your rockwork. I assume you aren't ghost-feeding, if the ammonia is a surprise? Just wait it out, it'll rot away in time.

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banasophia

Yay for Biocubes, congrats on the new tank. Looks great, and looks like your rock is probably Caribsea Liferock, which is what I always use. I personally prefer to avoid live rock from the ocean, and all the hitchhikers it contains. If it was already wet at the LFS, then it should be live and hopefully your cycle will be fast.
 

I used that same sand in my recent setup and my nitrates were unexplainably high too... wonder if it was the sand that caused the elevated nitrates. 

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IMO, you want those hitchhikers. If your live rock is bare, any pest algaes that come in (and they will!) have free rein to spread. If your rock is already covered in 10 species of algae, they fight with each other, compete, and make it much harder for anything to overwhelm the rest and cause too much of an algae spike. Then there's all the detritivores, the 'pods, mysis shrimp sometimes, scavenging worms, and all sorts of things. They help keep the algae contained as well, they clean up waste and food and turn it into things your corals can use, and they turn themselves into fish food. Sure, there can be pests, but there's so much good stuff on the rock as well. Without live rock, you have to buy your pods, and hope that other useful things come in on frag plugs. 

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banasophia
32 minutes ago, Tired said:

IMO, you want those hitchhikers. If your live rock is bare, any pest algaes that come in (and they will!) have free rein to spread. If your rock is already covered in 10 species of algae, they fight with each other, compete, and make it much harder for anything to overwhelm...

Well IMO, that’s why I would add a good cleanup crew, and pods if needed... gives more control over what is added to your system so you don’t have to worry as much about the pests. 

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I plan on adding my cleanup crew after I add my first fish. My LFS told me that I would be better off going with just live rock with no critters on it since my tank wasnt established yet. That's why I chose the caribsea liverock.

 

He said he's had the Caribsea LR in that tank for over a year. 

 

I'm still doing research on pods and stuff so a lot of that is still unclear to me. 

 

I might have to push off getting fish or anything until getting a chilling unit either way. Since I cannot keep my temperature consistent now that it's getting warmer outside.

13 hours ago, banasophia said:

Yay for Biocubes, congrats on the new tank. Looks great, and looks like your rock is probably Caribsea Liferock, which is what I always use. I personally prefer to avoid live rock from the ocean, and all the hitchhikers it contains. If it was already wet at the LFS, then it should be live and hopefully your cycle will be fast.
 

I used that same sand in my recent setup and my nitrates were unexplainably high too... wonder if it was the sand that caused the elevated nitrates. 

 

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banasophia
1 minute ago, BrianW89 said:

 

I plan on adding my cleanup crew after I add my first fish. My LFS told me that I would be better off going with just live rock with no critters on it since my tank wasnt established yet. That's why I chose the caribsea liverock.

 

He said he's had the Caribsea LR in that tank for over a year. 

 

I'm still doing research on pods and stuff so a lot of that is still unclear to me. 

 

I might have to push off getting fish or anything until getting a chilling unit either way. Since I cannot keep my temperature consistent now that it's getting warmer outside.

 

I use a chill solutions chiller in both of my Biocubes. Pricey, but I think it’s a great investment in the tank. Here’s a thread I did about it. Others with nice stock LED biocubes have controlled their temp well enough without it though. 

 

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banasophia

If you do order that chiller I recommend getting the install kit with the tubing and small pump... it comes separately. 

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