cycling with aquvavitro seed

[Arun]

i have 30 Gallon tank with Live rock and live sand. i started cycling my tank with Aquavitro Seed. From the Day one i could  see Zero Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrites. its been 3 weeks now. i dont see any spike. i dosed Seed, as prescribed for 7 days.  i haven't added any ammonia or source for ammonia. is my tank is cycled? 

[mitten_reef]

9 minutes ago, Arun said:

i have 30 Gallon tank with Live rock and live sand. i started cycling my tank with Aquavitro Seed. From the Day one i could  see Zero Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrites. its been 3 weeks now. i dont see any spike. i dosed Seed, as prescribed for 7 days.  i haven't added any ammonia or source for ammonia. is my tank is cycled? 

Live rocks? - wet or dry? 

Generally, you'll need to add an ammonia source to actually kickstart the cycling process and measure the progress.

 @banasophia, can give a better rundown on bottled bacteria cycling method than me.  So hopefully she’ll chime in later (she’s on west coast time). In the mean time, check out her tank of the month feature under the library section. 

[Arun]

It used live rocks from another tank, but while i got that it was kept outside for last few days. technically it should be dry rocks.

[treedog5]

You will need to add an ammonia source then test your water to see what the ammonia level is, then test the next day and see if the ammonia level has decreased. If it has then you know the cycle is working.

[Arun]

Thank you

[banasophia]

Thanks for the tag, @mitten_reef.
 

I don’t hear about people using that product often and just looked for reviews to see people’s experience with it, couldn’t find any on amazon, BRS, or marine depot. I did find this same question posted on the seachem (manufacturer) website:

 

https://www.seachem.com/support/forums/forum/under-the-sea/18910-o-ammonia-cycling-with-aquavitro-seed

 

 

Based on that info, personally I would not recommend that product at all since it says it can take from days to weeks to work and that you need to be prepared to use Prime when adding fish to detoxify the ammonia and nitrite the fish produce. Sounds a lot like a traditional cycle with fish, doesn’t seem like much benefit to using it. Seachem has tons of great products I do use... but I don’t think I would use this product. 

 

So, at this point your tank has the product in it but it doesn’t have an ammonia source so nothing has really happened yet. With this particular product I would not add fish as the ammonia source since the manufacturer does not trust their own product to keep up with the fish waste.
 

You could do a fish less cycle and add an ammonia source such as raw shrimp, fish food, or ammonia drops to feed the bacteria and allow them to populate your tank. Dr Tim’s ammonia drops are nice because you know exactly how much to add to get the correct ammonia level, and then you can go by the instructions for fish less cycling on the Dr Tim’s website (linked below). As the previous poster mentioned, you will add the ammonia source and then test the water to see if the bacteria in the tank are able to process it from ammonia to nitrites and then to nitrates. 
 

http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/fishless-cycling

 

 

 

 

The other option is that instead of adding the ammonia to your setup, you could order a bottle of BioSpira (and a Seachem ammonia badge), add them, and then you could add 1-2 small fish as the ammonia source the following week. I use BioSpira when I start my tanks as my primary bacteria source, it is recommended by BRS and has excellent reviews on the BRS website and amazon... check out the reviews for yourself if thinking of using it.

 

And then I also use at least one other product as a back up (Nutri-Seawater, live sand) because the beneficial bacteria products can be sensitive to temperature extremes and I want to be sure I have a back up source in the event the BioSpira may have been damaged during storage/transport before I received it.
 

I usually start my tank by adding the BioSpira/Nutri-Seawater/live sand and dry rock, wait about a week to be sure my system is running smoothly (temp, flow, salinity, water level, initial water testing), and then add 1-2 fish as my ammonia source. I keep a Seachem ammonia badge in my tanks as an early warning in the event there is an unexpected increase in ammonia. It is important to note that you cannot combine methods - if you add fish as the ammonia source, you do not add any ammonia drops, it would harm the fish!

 

Hope this makes sense! I’m in a bit of a rush because I need to start work, but I’ll try to check back for questions later if you have any. 

 

[mitten_reef]

4 minutes ago, banasophia said:

I don’t hear about people using that product often and just looked for reviews to see people’s experience with it, couldn’t find any on amazon, BRS, or marine depot. I did find this same question posted on the seachem (manufacturer) website:

you don't see them online, because they're meant strictly to be a brick-n-mortar brand to support LFS - an interesting business strategy choice by Seachem IMO.  I've liked all of AquaVitro products I've tried, except for the prices since LFS don't have to compete with online stores on this particular product line (and there's no MSRP to go off on AV website either).  I just never had any need for AV Seed.   

[Arun]

Thanks for your response. Already i have aquavitro seed in my tank, three weeks back. Now can i add Bio spira as recommended for 30 gallon and in a following week i can go with fishes without adding any other botteled ammonia? if fishes can be added to the tank, how many i can add to it to initially?

[banasophia]

2 minutes ago, mitten_reef said:

you don't see them online, because they're meant strictly to be a brick-n-mortar brand to support LFS - an interesting business strategy choice by Seachem IMO.  I've liked all of AquaVitro products I've tried, except for the prices since LFS don't have to compete with online stores on this particular product line (and there's no MSRP to go off on AV website either).  I just never had any need for AV Seed.   

That’s interesting... yeah I don’t have any personal experience with that product obviously, but since they are saying you need to be prepared to add Prime to keep the fish safe, that does not seem like a good sign to me at all... 

[treedog5]

I agree with @banashophia on this one, no one is sure what the product you have already added is doing for you, so your best bet would be to add the BioSpira or Dr. Tims one and only Nitrifying bacteria. Then you could possibly add 1 or 2 small fish as your ammonia source, I would recommend just adding bottled ammonia but either way don't add fish until your sure your Nitrifying bacteria is present.

[banasophia]

1 minute ago, Arun said:

Thanks for your response. Already i have aquavitro seed in my tank, three weeks back. Now can i add Bio spira as recommended for 30 gallon and in a following week i can go with fishes without adding any other botteled ammonia? if fishes can be added to the tank, how many i can add to it to initially?

That’s what I would do if it was my tank based on what I just read about Seed. It shouldn’t cause any harm to add both.

 

In your case, your tank has been running 3 weeks already, so as long as you know the equipment is already functioning properly with the temperature, salinity, and water level all staying stable, I would add the BioSpira (and ammonia badge for peace of mind), wait a couple days, and test the water again... if it looks good (0 ammonia, 0 nitrites) then I would add 1-2 fish. You should start with hardy/easy fish... I like adding my clownfish pair first personally. 

[Tamberav]

Did anyone else not notice the OP said he used previously live rock that sat outside for a few days first?

 

I don't see how that can't be an ammonia source right there. Still I bet plenty of bacteria survived that. There just should have been die off too if it was actually live shortly before.

 

I know he said he tested zero but still? Unless it was kept wet? Like in a bucket of salt outside? Then it may stay mostly live.

 

 

[mitten_reef]

On 4/23/2020 at 8:33 AM, Arun said:

technically it should be dry rocks.

 

4 hours ago, Tamberav said:

Did anyone else not notice the OP said he used previously live rock that sat outside for a few days first?

 

I don't see how that can't be an ammonia source right there. Still I bet plenty of bacteria survived that. There just should have been die off too if it was actually live shortly before.

 

I know he said he tested zero but still? Unless it was kept wet? Like in a bucket of salt outside? Then it may stay mostly live.

 

 

OP did say that we should look at it as dry rocks.  But I hear what you’re saying about possible leftover die-off of things.  But OP also said that the tank tested zero for everything since day one, so not likely to have any carryover die-off?  

[Clown79]

7 hours ago, Tamberav said:

Did anyone else not notice the OP said he used previously live rock that sat outside for a few days first?

 

I don't see how that can't be an ammonia source right there. Still I bet plenty of bacteria survived that. There just should have been die off too if it was actually live shortly before.

 

I know he said he tested zero but still? Unless it was kept wet? Like in a bucket of salt outside? Then it may stay mostly live.

 

 

I doubt they dried out completely unless OP lives somewhere very hot.

 

There still should have been some die off.

 

The one thing that's missing is nitrates. All tests have read 0 from beginning. That seems off

 

[banasophia]

Yes, I saw the following:

i started cycling my tank with Aquavitro Seed.

It used live rocks from another tank, but while i got that it was kept outside for last few days. technically it should be dry rocks.

From the Day one i could  see Zero Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrites. its been 3 weeks now.

So this was what I thought about:

this is a new hobbyist that wants to use a beneficial bacteria product, but that particular product appears unreliable 

the rock was originally live but was outside a few days and they said was dried out, so it may or may not have still been live when added to the tank

they did also use live sand, so it’s possible that was enough of a bacteria source

the nitrates were zero, which is surprising given the partially or fully dried out live rock, leading to several questions:

-what is the nature of the rock? 

-was the nitrate test done correctly?

-is the rock still live and actually denitrifying?

 

Of course I considered a wide range of options in the scenario for further evaluation and for resolving the situation. The two options that I considered easiest would be to either get Dr Tim’s ammonium chloride to test and see whether it could already be cycled, and if not do a fishless cycle, or just add Biospira and add fish a couple days later.  As I mentioned if it was my tank, I would do the BioSpira. 
 

There are many ways to cycle a tank and they will all ultimately get to the same final outcome... just trying to provide what I consider the easiest advice in the given situation after being tagged to help by @mitten_reef. 
 

[Clown79]

20 minutes ago, banasophia said:

Yes, I saw the following:

i started cycling my tank with Aquavitro Seed.

It used live rocks from another tank, but while i got that it was kept outside for last few days. technically it should be dry rocks.

From the Day one i could  see Zero Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrites. its been 3 weeks now.

So this was what I thought about:

this is a new hobbyist that wants to use a beneficial bacteria product, but that particular product appears unreliable 

the rock was originally live but was outside a few days and they said was dried out, so it may or may not have still been live when added to the tank

they did also use live sand, so it’s possible that was enough of a bacteria source

the nitrates were zero, which is surprising given the partially or fully dried out live rock, leading to several questions:

-what is the nature of the rock? 

-was the nitrate test done correctly?

-is the rock still live and actually denitrifying?

 

Of course I considered a wide range of options in the scenario for further evaluation and for resolving the situation. The two options that I considered easiest would be to either get Dr Tim’s ammonium chloride to test and see whether it could already be cycled, and if not do a fishless cycle, or just add Biospira and add fish a couple days later.  As I mentioned if it was my tank, I would do the BioSpira. 
 

There are many ways to cycle a tank and they will all ultimately get to the same final outcome... just trying to provide what I consider the easiest advice in the given situation after being tagged to help by @mitten_reef. 
 

Definitely agree that aquavitro seed is not obviously helping and if it suggests using Prime with it, that leads me to believe the bacteria or whatever is in it, doesn't significantly help with establishing the bacteria needed for cycling.

 

Biospira should be added. That's a product we know works 

 

 

[Tamberav]

8 hours ago, mitten_reef said:

 

OP did say that we should look at it as dry rocks.  But I hear what you’re saying about possible leftover die-off of things.  But OP also said that the tank tested zero for everything since day one, so not likely to have any carryover die-off?  

Yeah it just doesn't add up. Perhaps it wasn't very alive to start out or maybe it was and it cycled quickly. 

 

Seems easy enough to test out with some ammonia. 

[banasophia]

49 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

Yeah it just doesn't add up. Perhaps it wasn't very alive to start out or maybe it was and it cycled quickly. 

 

Seems easy enough to test out with some ammonia. 

yup, that was one of the two options I mentioned...  either test out with Dr Tim’s ammonia or add BioSpira... either way would have worked 

[Arun]

Thanks for your suggestions. I got Bio spira, will add it to the tank. Following that will add fish within in a week. Now am seeing Diatoms in my tank, so I have ordered clean up crew. After adding bio spira, can I add CUC? 

[banasophia]

yes, you can go ahead and add them 

[Sector001]

Considering aquavitro® seed also for new 20 gallon Waterbox nanao. Not sure if  I want to add a fish right away and i will have CaribSea-LifeRock and CaribSea Arag-Alive Pound Fiji Pink Sand in the tank.

 

My question is when do I add my chemical filtration (Chemipure blue) and when should I start my skimmer (IceCap K1-Nano Protein Skimmer)

[debbeach13]

8 minutes ago, Sector001 said:

Considering aquavitro® seed also for new 20 gallon Waterbox nanao. Not sure if  I want to add a fish right away and i will have CaribSea-LifeRock and CaribSea Arag-Alive Pound Fiji Pink Sand in the tank.

 

My question is when do I add my chemical filtration (Chemipure blue)

Based on this thread it seems there is no real advantage to using aquavitro seed. You start chemical filtration after the cycle is complete.

[banasophia]

3 hours ago, Sector001 said:

Considering aquavitro® seed also for new 20 gallon Waterbox nanao. Not sure if  I want to add a fish right away and i will have CaribSea-LifeRock and CaribSea Arag-Alive Pound Fiji Pink Sand in the tank.

 

My question is when do I add my chemical filtration (Chemipure blue) and when should I start my skimmer (IceCap K1-Nano Protein Skimmer)

I would suggest using a better beneficial bacteria product such as BioSpira, which was invented by Dr Tim Hovanec before he branched off and started his own company. 

[Sector001]

Yes, heard good things about that, TY