Seeking opinion on treatment of old Live Rock and CoraLife Salt Crystals?

[websherpa]

I did a search but could only find one post particularly related, so I am looking for some opinions on the viability of really old dead dry live rock (that's been stored outside for years in Ontario, Canada).  I was quite an active aquarist most of first 35 years of life, but have refrained for the last 20 after a major move.  The MOMENT I gave away my old tanks and equipment, I developed a taste to start a small pico reef for my home office.

 

I'm taking some baby steps forward toward setting up a NOS 2.5 gal Fluval Spec (that I put aside decades ago) and doing a lot of re-learning and research.

 

RE: Dry "once live shipped" reef rock and sand

I never threw away the now long dead, dry and bleached coral rock (mostly Fiji Rock I think??) and live coral sand (not uniform), from my 15gal display / 10 gal sump reef tank from the 1990's, it "was" all quite "live" at the time.  Those were amazing years (before we knew the amount of live reef damage we were supporting) with all sorts of hitchikers, I had feather dusters and christmas worms, brittle starts and bristle worms, pods, apstasia, snails, coralline algae, sponges, some tiny soft corals, and a thumb splitter mantis shrimp among other things.  At the time the live rock was simply re-cured for a time in a garbage pail with salt water changes, but the rock was bought from a very reputable dealer at the time, so it established a balance very quickly (I had a massive homemade protein skimmer tuned for such a small tank that it's volume almost equaled the sump) with very little die off and my nano was very successful.

 

Now I am looking for some opinions on treating the now long dead, dry rock and sand to re-incorporate in the tank.

 

The coral rock sat outside for a few years, in Toronto Winters, so it's well bleached and picked over by ants and so forth. Part of me is curious about what bacterial life and potential other spores might remain viable on 20 year old dry reef rock, if any, if I just throw the rock into a heated bucket of synthetic sea water with a pump for aeration for a while.

 

Does anyone know from experience what, if anything, I might expect (other than a bacterial cycle and maybe good and bad algae once re-established to light) from doing that? 

 

To be honest what I might hope best for is to re-innoculate corraline algae. 

 

Or do some people think I should go the route of thoroughly disinfecting the rock and sand (vinegar or bleach bath, followed by chlorine neutralizer, fresh water soaks and then a cycle).  And starting the cycle again.

 

Or (since I don't have a desire to rush into stocking it) just throw it in the tank, start it all up and see what happens before adding any inhabitants? (Part of me can already see the diatom bloom.)

 

RE: 20 year old 5gal bucket of Coralife Sea Salt Crystals

Just before the breakdown and move, I had purchased a new bucket of Coralife Marine Salt (I was on a budget), stored dry and likely still crystalline. I have no idea what edition it was, and there is no ingredient mix given. 

 

Given that I am on a tight budget again for this pico restart and mostly going to be using a replacement water regime to attend to my levels, does anyone with similar experience think that I should use it, or wait and use a better quality salt like Instant Ocean Reef Crystals or another suggested brand? (Nothing more complex than some inverts, shrimps, soft corals and a goby for this tank.)

 

Thank you in advance!

[Clown79]

If the rock was stored outside exposed to pollutants, rain, snow, animals(basically not stored in a sealed container)

 

I personally wouldn't use it at all.

Some might do an acid bath(can't remember the acid) I assume that would remove anything within the rocks.

 

I definitely wouldn't use the old sand. Buy new sand.

 

 

[Humblefish]

I reused some rock that has been sitting outside for 10+ years, but gave it both a chlorine bath and then a muriatic acid bath beforehand.

[websherpa]

Thank you!

 

In this case I am being a tight-wad and looking to re-use what I can, even if it means an ultra long cycle (and some prep work). I potentially have everything except inhabitants at my disposal, I even own a working RO/DI unit that I use for my orchids, so I am trying to understand the risks better to balance against my potential reward - I am in no rush to introduce new inhabitants and can bucket cure both the sand and rock for a while.

 

I guess the only "rewards" I am looking for are:

1. existing bacteria
2. possibility of generating coralline algae from long dead spores (assuming nothing else could re-generate)
3. innate sense of "recycle & resuse" - I try not to be an overly consumptive soul where I can
4. the cost savings

Help me understand the risks better, please.  

 

The reef rock spent a year outside exposed to the elements I think, and the rest of the time in a bucket in a shed.  A rinse will remove a lot of loosely encrusted calcium from the outside as it's been weathered.  

 

Pesticides I understand.   We have a relatively low use here in Ontario backyards due to the environmental laws, but I "may" have used some Round-up in the vicinity - but it has a half-life of say 50 days, more or less, before any washing.

 

And sand, let's say with thorough rinsing (with or without a bleach)... what exactly is the potential risk?

[websherpa]

(The acid would be muriatic - which I have an abundance of due to a pool.  But I would be more inclined to do a strong vinegar bath or bleach if anything other tan just time curing and cycling and water changes.)

[Clown79]

2 hours ago, Humblefish said:

I reused some rock that has been sitting outside for 10+ years, but gave it both a chlorine bath and then a muriatic acid bath beforehand.

That's the acid I was thinking of. Muriatic.

[Clown79]

21 minutes ago, websherpa said:

(The acid would be muriatic - which I have an abundance of due to a pool.  But I would be more inclined to do a strong vinegar bath or bleach if anything other tan just time curing and cycling and water changes.)

You need to remove anything that may have contaminated the rocks which needs more than vinegar. Vinegar baths helps with phosphate reduction in dry reef rock.

 

For rocks left outside you will need to do a bit more to make them safe for use like a muriatic bath. The purpose of the bath is to remove everything from the rocks to make them safe for use. They still will need to fully cycle and since they will be devoid of life, they will then need to be cycled like dry reef rock fishless cycling.

 

Any coralline or anything "beneficial" on those rocks is dead now and won't live through a muriatic acid bath.

[mcarroll]

7 hours ago, websherpa said:

Does anyone know from experience what, if anything, I might expect (other than a bacterial cycle and maybe good and bad algae once re-established to light) from doing that? 

Only the cycle and algae...cyano most likely...maybe hair algae.  I'd be extremely doubtful of coralline, but that'll come in on the shells of snails.  Add a snail early.  Depending on your comfort level, add a small amount of coral next.  Go back and forth adding small amounts of CUC and small amounts of coral until the tank is built how you like it.  Then start adding fish slowly.  One at a time...no more often than about once a month (or less).

 

7 hours ago, websherpa said:

Or do some people think I should go the route of thoroughly disinfecting the rock and sand (vinegar or bleach bath, followed by chlorine neutralizer, fresh water soaks and then a cycle).

"F" no.  None of that.  

 

Forget even the concept of "disinfecting" rock for your tank.  It's a popular concept, but very misplaced....not to mention unnecessarily dangerous.

 

Sanity Check:  We know that everything foul on the whole planet has been washing into the ocean every time it rains for 4.5 trillion years.  We know there is something on the order trillions of microorganisms in one single teaspoon of seawater.  Hold those two thoughts in mind for a moment.

 

The ocean is the opposite of "clean" or "disinfected".  Your tank should be too.  👍 

 

And in point of fact, your rock has been getting a continuous acid bath (thanks acid rain!) and UV bath (thanks Sun!) the whole time it's been outside.  

 

DO NOT DO ANYTHING MORE except what YOU suggested...  

 

7 hours ago, websherpa said:

Or (since I don't have a desire to rush into stocking it) just throw it in the tank, start it all up and see what happens before adding any inhabitants? (Part of me can already see the diatom bloom.)

This.  

 

Diatoms are a natural first phase (if you're lucky).  

 

All algae should be welcome when it comes...and inevitably goes.   

 

See above for stocking tips.  Just go slow and don't let anything get out of control.  (Easy to do when you go slow.)

 

7 hours ago, websherpa said:

Coralife Marine Salt

Mix it up and see what happens.  There's no specific reason that it shouldn't be used.

 

I would put some effort into re-mixing the contents of the bucket by rolling it around on the ground for a good 10-15 minutes before you start using it.

 

Post your results from mixing a batch the first time if you have any questions.

 

 

 

One Caveat on the rock:  If you think there's any chance that it's been exposed to herbicides or pesticides of any kind, put the rock into the garbage and start over.  No cleaning process would convince me it was safe if it had been exposed to that kind of stuff.

[websherpa]

Thank you everyone I do really appreciate all of. the advice!  I'm not entirely new to the Reef hobby, so I am familiar with the cycle, diatom blooms and the loading of life in the tanks... I was more curious about the opinions on what might happen given different scenarios (additional bleaching vs no bleaching). And whether using old salt would be a horrid idea.

 

(Of course given a perfect world I would start again from scratch with fresh rock and salt, but I am curious to try to resurrect with what I have on hand.)

 

I will attempt to re-use the rock regardless (I need very little of what I have on hand), wash thoroughly and then cycle it in the dark, likely out of tank at first for a month.  I'm doing a little research into herbicide abatement techniques.  We aren't really allowed to use pesticides here in Ontario.  Besides which people use certain pesticides all the time to dip corals and seem satisfied with being able to live with a quick rinse.  

 

I do tend to ascribe to @mcarroll's approach since the observations of my own original reef aquarium (and copious freshwater cichlid aquariums - back in the day) coincide and other than the live reef rock that I once used, my inhabitant bio-load was always kept to a manageable minimum.

[mcarroll]

On 4/15/2020 at 8:48 AM, websherpa said:

Besides which people use certain pesticides all the time to dip corals and seem satisfied with being able to live with a quick rinse.  

That's not a standard.   People do all kinds of highly questionable/objectionable things in the hobby and post online about it.  It almost seems like that's one of the main objects of having an Internet!    Bleach and pesticide treatments are like the tips of a proverbial Iceberg of Bad Ideas.  😉

 

If you can acquire some farmed pods, use them as your "canary in the coal mine".  If pods live with your rock, everything else will too.  Pods will be likely to scavenge on any detritus left on the rocks as well.