Dosing a 5 Gallon PIco.. Necessary and if so, how?

[aclman88]

Hey guys and gals,

 

I have a 5 gallon pico (link is in my signature) and have noticed that the Alk has been running a little on the low end.  Coral consist of softies, LPS and a couple SPS frags.

 

I recently switched to Tropic Marin Pro Reef.  My Alk is testing in around 6.5-7.0 after water changes, which is a little lower than TMPR mixes up to. (~7.7)  I was using Instant Ocean Reef Crystals with great success, but this is supposed to mix up at a much higher Alk and the batch I recently mixed and tested is only hitting high 7s in Alk.  I don't like the inconsistency I am seeing in this batch.  I also realize that if I continued using Reef Crystals for my usual one gallon water change, and it is mixing up at advertised 13 alk, my tank would jump from 6.4 to over 8 in a single water change, which I think is too much.  

 

Two weeks ago, I tested the Alk daily using a Hanna checker and found about .1 Alk drop every two days.  Below is the testing results I performed this past week after a water change; it looks like the tank is using up about .1 Dkh Alk daily.  All tests were done with the salifert, and I used a hanna checker a bunch of the days as well.

 

Freshly Mixed Tropic Marin Pro Reef Levels:

Alk - 7.7

Cal - 425

Mag 1305

 

3/29 - After 25% Water Change (~1 Gallon)

Alk - 6.8

Cal - 395

Mag 1245

 

3/30 - 

Alk - 6.7

Cal - 395

Mag 1260

 

3/31 - 

Alk - 6.5/6.6       Hanna Alk - 6.7

Cal - 395

Mag 1260

 

4/01 - 

Alk - 6.5            Hanna Alk - 6.4

Cal - 395

Mag 1275

 

4/02 - 

Alk - 6.4             Hanna Alk - 6.3

Cal - 385

Mag 1245

 

4/03 - 

 

Alk - 6.4.        Hanna Alk - 6.2

Cal - 395

Mag 1245

 

4/04 -  After 25% Water Change (~1 Gallon)

 

Alk - 6.55.     Hanna Alk - 6.7

Cal - 395

Mag 1305

 

I don't think that water changes will keep up with this drop since after a water change I am still below 7 Dkh.

 

My question is, should I be dosing this tank or just perform larger water changes to keep up with the demand?  I already have the ESV B-Ionic two part system, so if I am dosing I will be using that.  If so, should I be performing a couple larger water changes first to get parameters closer to what my salt mixes up to?

 

Any advice or experience dosing such a small tank would be really great.

Thanks!

 

[Clown79]

Did you mix the dry salt before use? Stirring the sand ensures a good mix.

 

Does the batch have a batch number to see what it supposed to mix at?

 

 

You can switch to any salt with parameters you prefer, you just need to start with smaller waterchanges so that parameters change gradually. 

 

You can also dose the newly mixed saltwater to get better levels. It's just an extra step because you will need to test alk before use.

 

[aclman88]

16 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

Did you mix the dry salt before use? Stirring the sand ensures a good mix.

 

Does the batch have a batch number to see what it supposed to mix at?

 

 

You can switch to any salt with parameters you prefer, you just need to start with smaller waterchanges so that parameters change gradually. 

 

You can also dose the newly mixed saltwater to get better levels. It's just an extra step because you will need to test alk before use.

 

I didn’t mix it really before but it was a small ten gallon pouch. Already got rid of any packaging. Either way, if it mixed up to its  stated 11 or so my ALK would jump a full point or more with each water change. Not sure if that is too much. If I ever needed a larger water change my alkalinity would be jumping by two points or more. 
 

Everything in the tank is/was growing and happy, nor sure I should have swirled salted to begin with but that ship has sailed. 

[Clown79]

22 minutes ago, aclman88 said:

I didn’t mix it really before but it was a small ten gallon pouch. Already got rid of any packaging. Either way, if it mixed up to its  stated 11 or so my ALK would jump a full point or more with each water change. Not sure if that is too much. If I ever needed a larger water change my alkalinity would be jumping by two points or more. 
 

Everything in the tank is/was growing and happy, nor sure I should have swirled salted to begin with but that ship has sailed. 

Its recommended to pre stir or roll the container for even distribution. 

 

A salt can advertise an alk level but not everyone will get that number.

Reef crystals claims to have high alk but none of my bags ever got higher than 9.

 

My Rscp bucket batches were 11dkh but mine mixed anywhere from 11 to 12.5

[aclman88]

8 hours ago, Clown79 said:

Its recommended to pre stir or roll the container for even distribution. 

 

A salt can advertise an alk level but not everyone will get that number.

Reef crystals claims to have high alk but none of my bags ever got higher than 9.

 

My Rscp bucket batches were 11dkh but mine mixed anywhere from 11 to 12.5

Ya I did that with the new bucket of tropic Marin and noticed higher levels than the first time I mixed it. Thanks. 
 

do you think dissing is necessary, or can the tank run okay a little below 7 dkh?

[aclman88]

Bump.  Any advice about whether not I should try dosing?  I was thinking of doing a larger 50% water change to get params up and then dose up to where the salt is mixing (~7.7) if needed.  

[mcarroll]

dosing seems like it could be a good option right now. If there was any reason you didn't want to, I think you have room to increase your water changes as well – potentially up to 100% each time.

 

TMPR is known to mix at low alkalinity like that.  I don't know if I understand why they make it like that, but as best as I can figure it is for people who auto-dose or who use a calcium reactor. Folks who do not need much if any safety margin in their alkalinity.

 

Folks who are maintaining their numbers by water changes and/or manual dosing are always the best off with some margin of safety. Instant ocean is a fine minimum, but Reef crystals gives you an even bigger margin – intended to support stony coral growth. The idea is that you don't want alkalinity to fall any lower than seven or you end up with large pH swings.

[aclman88]

3 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

dosing seems like it could be a good option right now. If there was any reason you didn't want to, I think you have room to increase your water changes as well – potentially up to 100% each time.

 

TMPR is known to mix at low alkalinity like that.  I don't know if I understand why they make it like that, but as best as I can figure it is for people who auto-dose or who use a calcium reactor. Folks who do not need much if any safety margin in their alkalinity.

 

Folks who are maintaining their numbers by water changes and/or manual dosing are always the best off with some margin of safety. Instant ocean is a fine minimum, but Reef crystals gives you an even bigger margin – intended to support stony coral growth. The idea is that you don't want alkalinity to fall any lower than seven or you end up with large pH swings.

Makes sense.  I think I will stick with TMPR, perform larger water change for the next couple of weeks and then consider dosing; I don't want the salt to go to waste and I do like that it mixes cleaner.  I am worried about going back to reef crystals since things seem to be doing so well at a lower alk, and their alk is now much higher than what my tank has accidentally grown accustomed to... by not premixing the dry salt the alk to drop considerably since the reef crystals wasn't mixing lot high params like it should have been.  Glad I decided to test it when I did... if I waited another couple of weeks I would have been below 6. 😯

 

The other option is burn through this bucket and just go back to reef crystals to see if that would maintain proper alk.  I don't have much in the way of corals, but with the .5-1 dkh drop per week I'm seeing now, I don't think even Reef Crystals will be enough to maintain proper alk as the coral continue to grow.

 

[Clown79]

46 minutes ago, aclman88 said:

Makes sense.  I think I will stick with TMPR, perform larger water change for the next couple of weeks and then consider dosing; I don't want the salt to go to waste and I do like that it mixes cleaner.  I am worried about going back to reef crystals since things seem to be doing so well at a lower alk, and their alk is now much higher than what my tank has accidentally grown accustomed to... by not premixing the dry salt the alk to drop considerably since the reef crystals wasn't mixing lot high params like it should have been.  Glad I decided to test it when I did... if I waited another couple of weeks I would have been below 6. 😯

 

The other option is burn through this bucket and just go back to reef crystals to see if that would maintain proper alk.  I don't have much in the way of corals, but with the .5-1 dkh drop per week I'm seeing now, I don't think even Reef Crystals will be enough to maintain proper alk as the coral continue to grow.

 

There are other salts like Fritz and red Sea Blue bucket. Both highly recommended

[mcarroll]

16 hours ago, aclman88 said:

mixes cleaner

I never have residues mixing at home MY WAY.  Never.  No brand has done it to me.

 

Here's my vid:

 

Less preferred, but works just as well:

Note, in vid#2 that's about 200x flow via 1000GPH propellor pump mounted at the top of the bucket.  Less flow, different style of pump and different positioning do not work worth a crap.

 

A mixing paddle (vid #1) is so much easier and just as effective though.  (Works just like your hand, only you stay dry!!)

 

NO HEAT IN EITHER ONE.

 

But..

 

When I worked at a saltwater store, we had side-by-side 100+ gallon vats for a constant supply of Pro Reef and Instant Ocean.

 

Both vats were set up in the pretty typical manner that most folks seem to use at home with a heater in the bottom and a pump providing a little bit of flow.  (Prolly 10x.  Consider that a MJ1200 in a 5 gallon bucket is only 60x and still sucks.)

 

Both vats would get residue.....IO would leave a brown one....TMpr would leave a black one.

[aclman88]

3 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Both vats would get residue.....IO would leave a brown one....TMpr would leave a black one

Interesting.  Thanks for sharing and chiming in.

 

Usually I just mix it unheated and then use it the next day since I am only doing single gallon water changes once a week.  I have decided though, to mix around 4-5 gallons so that I can just mix salt monthly rather than weekly. The plan is to mix it clear and then store it covered, unheated and without any flow.  I watched a BRS investigates that showed even after a month parameters remained stable.

19 hours ago, Clown79 said:

There are other salts like Fritz and red Sea Blue bucket. Both highly recommended

Thanks.  I will see how things go with this bucket and go from there. I have heard a lot about the blue bucket as well, and it mixes up a little higher in alk than the tropic Marin.

 

Glad you both have responded, I really value your input and you have both helped me tremendously in my introduction to reef keeping.  Thanks!