Phosphate 0 - Nitrate 15

[mcarroll]

3 minutes ago, darksun92 said:

I try to clean the algae on the sand and clean the detritus, I can’t siphon cause all my coral plugs are on the sand.

It sounds like you may have a lack of flow if detritus is collecting that quickly.  With enough flow to keep it moving (not sinking) detritus becomes coral food.

 

What is the plan for these corals on the sand?  Is this their long term home?   If not, it sounds like they're in need of placement.

 

If the sand is their permanent location, then more flow is your only real option.  Having more scavengers (eg nassarius snails, blue leg hermits) may help, but don't try to use them in place of better flow.

 

7 minutes ago, darksun92 said:

if I turn on again there’s no risk to decrease my nitrate to 0 or avoid to rise the phosphate?

No risk.   Phosphates and nitrates aren't skimmable since they are dissolved in the water.  

 

Skimming works (more or less) on things that stick to bubbles (ie have a hydrophobic/-phyllic nature) and it works on particulates that float well enough to be skimmed out in the foam.  

 

Food generally lowers the surface tension of the tank water which prevents skimming for an hour or so....because of that, food items generally don't get skimmed out.  

 

The nitrogen and phosphorous going into the tank via food absolutely dwarfs any ability of the skimmer to remove them.  👍

 

According to the few studies done on skimmate, protein skimmers are no more than about 30% efficient at removing what they do remove.....in other words 60-70% of what they "should" remove is still in the water, unskimmable.  Skimmers stop skimming when there isn't enough to skim -- self-limiting.

 

It's a very passive filter, which is one of its better features.

 

It's very hard to go wrong (ie do harm) using a protein skimmer.  Not something you can say about much of our gear.  For example, you can murder coral with lights, pumps, additives...just about anything else I can think of offhand.  But you can't do kill corals with a protein skimmer.  (Well....pick it up and use it like a weapon and you could bash some corals....but we hope it never comes to that.)  😉

 

I think the aeration provided by use of a protein skimmer can be as valuable as the filtration it brings.

 

24 minutes ago, darksun92 said:

So I need to remove marine pure spheres too? stop dosing supplements and stop reef roids?

I would.  Correct.

 

24 minutes ago, darksun92 said:

5 minutes ago 🤣

👍

 

26 minutes ago, darksun92 said:

Here in the room the water temperature can rise to 85 or even more, with the fan on it rarely low to 83 or 82 so yes is pretty important here. 
thanks!

Unless you're keeping cooler water specimens, 85 shouldn't really be a problem.  If temperature is really cresting over 90ºF, then it's probably worth applying some cooling....keep it under 90º just to be safe.

 

More important I'd say is to keep it stable.  How much does the temperature swing on those hot days?  From what low at night up to 85ºF at the peak?

 

Back when I ran halide lights, they'd bring up the tank temperature to about 83ºF and I just chose (after talking with a diver familiar with water temps in Palau) not to fight it and instead went with it.  I turned off the heaters during the day with a timer (they were still running!) and ONLY ran them at night to hold the temperature at about 82ºF.  

 

< 2ºF swing from day to night was my goal...and I think it was usually more like 1 degree.   I had a cooling fan with that light setup, but never had temps go high enough to activate it.  

[Clown79]

Removing carbon really wasn't necessary. It's a pretty staple media that helps remove toxins from corals.

It really doesn't do much for nutrient export, using small quantities changed every 2-3 weeks is fine.

 

Just like floss, it's a safe and commonly used media. It's only meant to collect particles, any left over food.

 

Phosguard, gfo, and purigen on the other hand all remove nutrients and can do so quite rapidly, so these media's are generally used on a need up basis.

[darksun92]

56 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

It sounds like you may have a lack of flow if detritus is collecting that quickly.  With enough flow to keep it moving (not sinking) detritus becomes coral food.

 

What is the plan for these corals on the sand?  Is this their long term home?   If not, it sounds like they're in need of placement.

 

If the sand is their permanent location, then more flow is your only real option.  Having more scavengers (eg nassarius snails, blue leg hermits) may help, but don't try to use them in place of better flow.

I use only my return pump as flow with a little pump that I took from and tiny old floss filter, I got an Jebao SW4 but in the minimum speed and the minimum force it makes a storm in the aquarium (14Lx10Wx14H) I tried a lot of placements but it simply stress the corals and make things fly, maybe I need one with less potency , I’m planning to buy a frag rack this weekend to put my corals on it until I found a place for them in the rock and then I can siphon the sand when I do WC.

 

1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

No risk.   Phosphates and nitrates aren't skimmable since they are dissolved in the water.  

 

Skimming works (more or less) on things that stick to bubbles (ie have a hydrophobic/-phyllic nature) and it works on particulates that float well enough to be skimmed out in the foam.  

 

Food generally lowers the surface tension of the tank water which prevents skimming for an hour or so....because of that, food items generally don't get skimmed out.  

 

The nitrogen and phosphorous going into the tank via food absolutely dwarfs any ability of the skimmer to remove them.  👍

 

According to the few studies done on skimmate, protein skimmers are no more than about 30% efficient at removing what they do remove.....in other words 60-70% of what they "should" remove is still in the water, unskimmable.  Skimmers stop skimming when there isn't enough to skim -- self-limiting.

 

It's a very passive filter, which is one of its better features.

 

It's very hard to go wrong (ie do harm) using a protein skimmer.  Not something you can say about much of our gear.  For example, you can murder coral with lights, pumps, additives...just about anything else I can think of offhand.  But you can't do kill corals with a protein skimmer.  (Well....pick it up and use it like a weapon and you could bash some corals....but we hope it never comes to that.)  😉

 

I think the aeration provided by use of a protein skimmer can be as valuable as the filtration it brings

OMG I just learned what a skimmer is today, thanks for all that info! I turned on again

 

1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

I would.  Correct.

Would you recommend to take out just now, or do it slowly? 
 

1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

Unless you're keeping cooler water specimens, 85 shouldn't really be a problem.  If temperature is really cresting over 90ºF, then it's probably worth applying some cooling....keep it under 90º just to be safe.

 

More important I'd say is to keep it stable.  How much does the temperature swing on those hot days?  From what low at night up to 85ºF at the peak?

 

Back when I ran halide lights, they'd bring up the tank temperature to about 83ºF and I just chose (after talking with a diver familiar with water temps in Palau) not to fight it and instead went with it.  I turned off the heaters during the day with a timer (they were still running!) and ONLY ran them at night to hold the temperature at about 82ºF.  

 

< 2ºF swing from day to night was my goal...and I think it was usually more like 1 degree.   I had a cooling fan with that light setup, but never had temps go high enough to activate it.  

I based on corals care described on most pages that suggest temperatures between 79/82 if I don’t use the fan in the day it reaches mostly 86, with the fan around 84 but in the day can reach 76 with the fan or 78 without the fan so what can be the best take care of? 

[mcarroll]

1 hour ago, darksun92 said:

I use only my return pump as flow with a little pump that I took from and tiny old floss filter, I got an Jebao SW4 but in the minimum speed and the minimum force it makes a storm in the aquarium (14Lx10Wx14H) I tried a lot of placements but it simply stress the corals and make things fly, maybe I need one with less potency , I’m planning to buy a frag rack this weekend to put my corals on it until I found a place for them in the rock and then I can siphon the sand when I do WC.

 

OMG I just learned what a skimmer is today, thanks for all that info! I turned on again

 

Would you recommend to take out just now, or do it slowly? 
 

I based on corals care described on most pages that suggest temperatures between 79/82 if I don’t use the fan in the day it reaches mostly 86, with the fan around 84 but in the day can reach 76 with the fan or 78 without the fan so what can be the best take care of? 

Sounds like more flow would be a good thing.   8 Gallons is pretty small for most pumps though, as you found.

 

Maximizing your return pump is one avenue.  Use the largest pump with the most flow that will fit into your available space.  Consider a flow randomizer like the RFG or like the Hydor Flo.  If you can implement something like the SCWD to allow your tank to have two alternating points of flow from your return pump DO IT.  They say the 3/4" model will run fine on as little as 50 GPH, so a strong return pump should work well.

 

Finding a more suitable flow pump is another avenue.  Size-size, nothing is very ideal in a tank with such a small display area.  Something like the Hydor nano (240gph) should be OK speed-wise, I think.

 

Dunno if you're familiar with the SCWD since they don't get mentioned much:

3/4" SCWD Wave Maker (Switching Current Water Director)

 

Listed for $32 at marine depot.

[darksun92]

21 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Sounds like more flow would be a good thing.   8 Gallons is pretty small for most pumps though, as you found.

 

Maximizing your return pump is one avenue.  Use the largest pump with the most flow that will fit into your available space.  Consider a flow randomizer like the RFG or like the Hydor Flo.  If you can implement something like the SCWD to allow your tank to have two alternating points of flow from your return pump DO IT.  They say the 3/4" model will run fine on as little as 50 GPH, so a strong return pump should work well.

 

Finding a more suitable flow pump is another avenue.  Size-size, nothing is very ideal in a tank with such a small display area.  Something like the Hydor nano (240gph) should be OK speed-wise, I think.

 

Dunno if you're familiar with the SCWD since they don't get mentioned much:

3/4" SCWD Wave Maker (Switching Current Water Director)

 

Listed for $32 at marine depot.

Unfortunately in my country (Mexico) there’s no much places to buy accessories like them but I’m going to take a look to change the return pump and add a bigger pump than this one that was added just for support the return pump 

 

 

So today I finally bought my seachem flourish phosphorus added .7ml, tested after 3 hours and “voila” there was 0.02 phosphate 🥳🥳🥳 so what’s the next step? 

 

 

[mcarroll]

👍 I would consider dosing up to 0.10 ppm.  Either way, you just need to re-test periodically to make sure it doesn't go back to zero any time soon.  

 

Once everything is growing and otherwise heading in the right direction you should be able to give up dosing....normal feeding should be more than enough in the medium or long term.

 

[darksun92]

2 hours ago, mcarroll said:

👍 I would consider dosing up to 0.10 ppm.  Either way, you just need to re-test periodically to make sure it doesn't go back to zero any time soon.  

 

Once everything is growing and otherwise heading in the right direction you should be able to give up dosing....normal feeding should be more than enough in the medium or long term.

 

Yesterday I tested PO4 and the result was 0.05 so I think is getting high alone, did you recommend use Aquaforest supplements? Or just throw to the trashcan? 🤣

thanks for your help!

[mcarroll]

7 hours ago, darksun92 said:

Yesterday I tested PO4 and the result was 0.05 so I think is getting high alone

👍

[risk1994]

On 3/29/2020 at 5:15 PM, mcarroll said:

Amino acids are a carbon source and nitrogen source -- the opposite of what you need, so stop dosing that stuff immediately.  Energy is probably in the same category....guessing it's an organic carbon source.

So something like Brightwell CoralAmino is a carbon source?  If I understand this supercharges they biological filtration and will drop Po4 in the presence of Nitrate faster?

 

I never heard this before.  I too am having issues keeping Po4 up and I add this periodically.  Is it ever safe to use in a tank with issues keeping up phosphate?

[darksun92]

12 hours ago, risk1994 said:

So something like Brightwell CoralAmino is a carbon source?  If I understand this supercharges they biological filtration and will drop Po4 in the presence of Nitrate faster?

 

I never heard this before.  I too am having issues keeping Po4 up and I add this periodically.  Is it ever safe to use in a tank with issues keeping up phosphate?

After 24 days dosing phosphate everyday I can say you, yes you can do It if necessary, my corals are thriving amazing now, the slowest recover is in the sps and incrusting corals but the are trying to recover, softies and lps are almost recovered, every thank is different so take test and don’t exceed the dosing on phosphate, I use 1ml on my 10g to up to 0.01 daily and everything is good.