Please Help - Algae Bloom Issue (I think)

[Doc_]

This is my first Salt Water Tank

 

My tank has been established for two months, it is a 30G Waterbox all in one and things have been moving along pretty much as expected from my reading over the last few years.

 

In about the second week after my cycle I started to get brown algae on the sandbed and a little on the rocks, I determined it to be diatoms at the time and I added a cleanup crew to start to deal with it. The bloom got stronger then died off a little with the CUC doing their job. It never totally went away though and when I extended out my lighting hours to start to test my schedule before adding in any corals the algae got worse and the CUC got lazier.

 

I have added two Onyx True Percs to the tank but haven’t added any corals yet, so given the fact I really don’t have any stock that need the light yet, I cut down my photo period to 5.5 hours including a 30 minute ramp up on either side. Within this photo period I have completely dropped off the UV, Green, Red and Green LED’s and am running it just blue and royal blue with some cool white just so I can still enjoy my tank and give myself some lights on time to inspect it each day.

 

Within two days of changing my lighting period my sandbed which was worse than in the image below saw I’d say a 70% improvement.

 

I’m now on the 5th day of cutting the photo period and I have found that like clock work around 13 hours after lights go out the tank suddenly gets very cloudy (and I do mean suddenly … within about 20 mins) as you often see with tanks where there is an Algae bloom in the water column. It is basically like a brownish/red fogginess which I included a picture of below.

 

When the lights come back on, the fogginess goes away and the water returns clear. I have tried to identify whether when this happens if the sandbed gets worse but honestly if it does it’s very slight if at all.   

 

This behavior has me a little worried that rather than diatoms which would be on queue around this time that I may have some other issue so I’m hoping that the members here can help 😊

 

My parameters are as follows

 

• Salinity – 1.023 sg
• Ammonia – 0
• Nitrites - 0
• Nitrates – 5
• Phosphates - 0.015 (Estimation doing a doubled up Salfert test and dividing by two as per their instructions)
• PH – Swings between 8.1 – 8.3 in a 24 hour period (The low seems to happen as the foggieness comes)

 

I’m hoping someone can provide me with some help or provide some opinions and advice around what I might be dealing with and what the best strategy in dealing with it might be.

 

I tried the Jar test and to determine if it was Dino but the strands never re-formed but in all the reading I have done I haven't seen any mention of the water going cloudy with diatoms

 

I did a 25% water change about a week ago and have been changing out the Filter floss when it discolors. Other than the Floss I am only running carbon.

 

If there is any other information you need to help please just ask and I’ll provide it 😊

 

[wiigelec]

How long was your cycle and how did you initiate it?

[Doc_]

I cycled for a month but the tank remained empty for about 1.5 months without live stock 

 

Cycle was done using ammonia dosing and Dr Tims , at the end of the cycle I was converting just short of 2ppm Ammonia to Nitrates inside of 30 hours I then did a 90%- 95% water change added more Dr Tims just for good measure.

 

I know ammonia can turn the water cloudy and it was the first thing I checked for it with my API and RedSea Kits, I also run a Seneye which monitors NH3 24x7 this also appears to be a Brownish Red haze rather than the milky haze high level of ammonia can show 

[wiigelec]

It can take a few months for everything to stabilize be patient and don’t add stuff too fast. Be careful with clean up crews if you add the wrong type and/or at the wrong time and/or too many they will just die and contribute to the problems rather than solving them.

[Doc_]

Thanks for the feedback , yes I plan to take the process slowly and not overstock 🙂 

 

I have a 4 Nassarius Snails and 3 Trochus Snails and the clown fish pair and that is all I plan to add in for the time being.  Ammonia is being monitored multiple times an hour by the Seneye and I'm still running the basic Ammonia and Nitrate tests once a week manually just while I assess the bio-load that is in there.

 

The part that has me fairly confused at the moment and wondering what I might be dealing with is the redish/brown haze in the water that comes and goes like clock work. 

 

The haze appears at about midday each day (when I would say the room gets the most passive sunlight that hits it ) and it's like a switch is hit as it goes from clear water to cloudy.

 

The cloudy water stays around until my lights come on around 5:30pm at which point the water starts to clear up and the water remains clear until around the same time the next day.

 

If the answer is to simply leave it and let it do it's thing then I can completely live with that, I have no corals atm so I have no reason I have to go back to a full light schedule I'd just like to identify what the issue might be and potentially know some tests I can do to confirm it is infact a particular issue so that I can act or treat it accordingly (even if that "fix" is to let it just happen and it will go away) 

 

The fish don't seem phased and the issue doesn't seem to be getting any better or worse, it's just odd and odd with an explanation is fine but odd with no ideas has me concerned.

[mcarroll]

Pretty strange....cloudy white or cloudy green aren't too uncommon....never heard of cloudy brown outside of a skimmer cup though.

 

4 hours ago, Doc_ said:

redish/brown

That's the color of Dino's....but the ones we typically see aren't pelagic, they're benthic.

 

Diatoms can be similarly colored...so maybe that?

 

You'd have to try looking at samples under a microscope to have any degree of surety beyond a guess IMO.

 

Worth it too if you're up for it!  This is pretty peculiar in my book.  

 

Do you have a scope?

 

(You're right to consider this nothing more than a curiosity, at least for the time being.  But IMO, I would still investigate with some vigor.)

[wiigelec]

Are you using “live rock”? If so can you provide some more details such as type, source, curing etc...

[Doc_]

 

4 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Pretty strange....cloudy white or cloudy green aren't too uncommon....

Completely agree in the fresh water world and as I understand it in Salt water as well , though whenever I have seen it before with fresh water and the examples I have found the tank is hazy and that is that for a period of time. I've never seen it bloom for literally only a few hours a day during lights out. My current guess is that although it's indirect light from a window it's probably as bright as that room gets in the right spectrum for the bloom and when the lights come on purely with blues and very little cool white and the sun has passed it's peak it just dies back down again until that peak hits the next day? But that's a complete guess atm 

 

4 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Diatoms can be similarly colored...so maybe that?

 

You'd have to try looking at samples under a microscope to have any degree of surety beyond a guess IMO.

 

Worth it too if you're up for it!  This is pretty peculiar in my book.  

 

Do you have a scope?

Diatoms is my hope at the moment , I tried to do the Jar test which I saw someone recommend and the strands didn't re-form   and the jar water didn't bloom 

 

I do not have a scope at the moment, it's something I have been looking at the option around picking up but I figured some advice from people who have seen it before could save me hunting around for that sweetspot between finding a Cheap Scope that doesn't cut it and a Scope that is far outside of anything I'll ever actually need. 

 

My work has an R&D department with nice scopes but we are all in isolation at the moment and the office is inaccessible for the foreseeable future 

 

I'm definitely curious as to what is going on as I mentioned I'm not trying to rush to a quick fix as things seem happy enough atm despite the bloom and parameters seem ok other than PH swinging a little more than I'd like but the swings seem predictable within a day and I was warned that monitoring my PH constantly while the tank was in it's first 12 months was likely to look like this 

 

15 minutes ago, wiigelec said:

Are you using “live rock”? If so can you provide some more details such as type, source, curing etc...

 

The tank was started with , CaribSea Life Rock , which is dry rock pre-seeded with dormant bacteria , CaribSea Live Sand , Red Sea Sea Salt ( Blue Bucket) and RODI water  

[wiigelec]

If you’re really worried about it you could get a UV filter but chances are without any input from you it will balance itself out in a few weeks...

[Doc_]

Yeah , UV is an option I considered as a potential solution. Given whatever it is seems to impact the water column I figured that would likely solve it if it is infact a bloom I will need to get rid of through action rather than waiting

 

Though what I'm most interested in if it's possible or feasible is really trying to narrow down what it might be and understanding if there are tests I can do to verify what it is so that I can assess what my best action would be if any at all

 

Frankly if it is just some symptom of diatoms which I haven't seen before in tropical tanks then I don't see a need to take any drastic measures and I'm also trying to limit what I do in the way of treatments at the moment as I'm trying to let Phos come up a little past zero which is also why I haven't done a water change this week.

 

That in itself is presenting a challenge because differentiating shades of blue in a test even when I double the test as per the Salifert suggestions I have a hard time determining exactly where I am. My Hanna Checker should be here tomorrow for ULR Phos at which point I'll make a decision around a water change this weekend.  

 

The  zero Phos is also why I was concerned if it was dinos and why I did the Jar test (assuming I did it right ! lol) and based on what I have been reading cyano tends to stay grounded on surfaces so I'm hoping I can at least rule that out ?

[mcarroll]

10 hours ago, Doc_ said:

sweetspot between finding a Cheap Scope that doesn't cut it and a Scope that is far outside of anything I'll ever actually need. 

$10 = totally usable toy scope.  It' just a little shaky, so extended viewing isn't that comfortable.

$50 = great, basic REAL stop.  Low power, but that's all you need for what we're doing.

 

Yes you can spend more for higher power, special lighting, et al, but save that for later.  (All of it can be added on to a real scope.)

 

IMO don't wait.  😉

 

Check out this set of value scopes, just to get you warmed up....all of these would be fine starters IMO:

https://www.amscope.com/student-microscopes/iqcrew-microscopes.html

 

Plenty of other brands to look at as well....and remember to shop craigslist as this is something that schools replace semi-regularly, so they seem to be out there.

 

19 minutes ago, Doc_ said:

I'm trying to let Phos come up a little past zero

Definitely on this!  Double down on these efforts.

[Doc_]

If I do get a scope , what specifications should I be looking at ? 

 

Would something like this suffice ? 

 

https://www.amazon.com.au/Jiusion-Original-Microscope-Magnification-Endoscope/dp/B07DRGR6LX/ref=nav_ya_signin?keywords=microscope&qid=1585101099&sr=8-13&

 

[mcarroll]

I'd look at options like the ones I linked.

 

That one on amazon is an inspection scope...you'd be better off saving some of your money with one of the $10 toy scopes IMO.

 

For just a little more $ than the one you linked you can have a real microscope.   (Check out that Amscop link for better ideas.  LOTS of options there.)

[Doc_]

There are a lot of options on that site , any hints at what I should be looking for to do the job I need to now and moving forward with diagnosing reef issues ? 

 

I'm also in Australia so I have to consider local availability and shipping etc. I can get some Am-scope equipment here though the options start at around 60 and far exceed 1000 just based off amazon and ebay so knowing what I will actually need from the scope now and moving forward would be tremendously helpful.

[mcarroll]

4 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Check out this set of value scopes, just to get you warmed up....all of these would be fine starters IMO:

https://www.amscope.com/student-microscopes/iqcrew-microscopes.html

Didn't know that link would just route back to their homepage....sorry, but that's just a dumb bit of web programming.

 

Check out the "IQ Crew" section under "Kid, Student Microscopes and Telescopes"....it's a limited range of introductory scopes of all types.   Generally $80 and less.

 

As for specs, even the lowest power microscopes (eg 400X like mine) will be very adequate.

 

There are no advanced features that you'll really need.  And you don't need extra strong magnifications.

 

👍

 

It's probably worth checking around to see if there are any used scopes for sale locally to you, or if you have a local (eg) camera shop that sells them.

 

Online, check out Omax, Amscope....seems like they're all very similar, so it's possible the same scope might be marketed under different brand names in your area.

[mcarroll]

This would be a nice starter...

IQCREW® 100x-1200x Kids Microscope with Smartphone Adapter and Accessory Kit

 

SKU: M29-KT1-SP

$47.99 

 

$23.99

 

Basically the same toy scope I started with, but includes a cellphone adapter (which I bought separately).

 

Same downside applies that I already mentioned....it's all plastic, so it'll be bouncy/unstable to a degree.  Still a bargain, and very useful.

 

For a few dollars more there are metal-bodied versions available.

 

But....for a few dollars more than that, you can get into something like this:

 

 

IQCrew by AmScope 40X-1000X Dual Illumination Microscope for Kids (Red)

 

 

(5) 

SKU: M50C-R14

$135.99 

 

$72.99

 

This would be pretty high end compared to what I started with.  😉

 

This next scope is approximately what I'm using currently, except mine (which was used) came with only a mirror for light and no stage clips:

 

 

40X-400X Student Monocular Biological Compound Microscope

 

SKU: M100

$141.99 

 

$70.99

 

A totally solid, and upgradable standard microscope.

 

I added a 3D mechanical stage and LED light to mine, BTW....about $30 worth of upgrades.

 

(Amscope is nice and has a great selection, but please shop around....they aren't the only game in town.)

[mcarroll]

Dunno if it's the same vendor, but this is the exact scope I started with:

 

SPONSORED

Starter Educational Science Compound Microscope Toy Lab Set for Kids Student US

Brand New

1.0 out of 5 stars.

2 product ratings- Starter Educational Science Compound Microscope Toy Lab Set for Kids Student US

$9.99

[Doc_]

Thank you very much for the recommendations 😊

 

I'll bet anything once I pick something the bloom will wait till the day it gets here and disappear but seems the sort of thing I'll find a use for as I'm learning and no doubt troubleshooting more issues where it will help lol 

[mcarroll]

I used mine a few times during my hair algae bloom, but I've used it at least as many times since then.  I even got a small set of prepared slides to have a variety of stuff to look at for my daughter.