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A.m.P

Lighting for a 33 Long

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A.m.P

So, for trying to light a 42" span, if my math is correct, I *might* be able to get away with using the 120W two-puck maxspect razor if I mount it around 10-12" above the surface of the water. 
Having a ton of PAR isn't the end of the world, but I'm trying to have this tank be primarily Montipora with a few softies or LPS scattered around the far perimeters, the rockwork will essentially just be an artsy-interpretation of a solid 5-8" tall straight-line about 2-3" from the back-glass.

I think that at around 80% A and 100% blue I should be able to achieve nearly 150-200 PAR throughout the entire 6" depth-mark. But I imagine this would probably cause a near-unlivable hotspot under the center of the pucks - likely 500+ PAR, which just seems like a waste - although I could scape easily enough around it.


The other Idea I have is to try to sell the newly-refurbished 120W model I have for around $300 and then replace it with three 23-watt ABI Tuna-Blue PAR bulbs, hung about 8-12" from the surface of the tank, spaced out in one of two ways; either @ 7 1/2", 21", and 34 1/2"; or @ 5 1/4", 21", and 36 3/4" with the outside two bulbs angled towards the center at 15 degrees.

The downside to this plan is that I'm not certain what the PAR values will be lol, I can only work with the advertised lens-spreads (30 degree effective center and 60 degree lensing) and make cutesy little diagrams like this one (which is flawed, of course, as it assumes a single, central origin-point for the lighting and doesn't account for the 5" plane which houses the LEDS):


bbb.jpg.89ea562868250edcba61bfeedc7371b0.jpg

 

Anyone with experience or thoughts care to offer some assistance? I may just end up buying them to trial things and then return them if it doesn't work out, I figured I can get some PAR readings in air and then subtract about 25-20% and have a decent idea of what I'll be dropping onto the animals.

Appreciate any time and advice to be offered!

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A.m.P

I swear I made this in the lighting forum and I have no idea why it's in general, any mods who see this feel free to move it >_<

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mitten_reef
2 hours ago, Amphrites said:

So, for trying to light a 42" span, if my math is correct, I *might* be able to get away with using the 120W two-puck maxspect razor if I mount it around 10-12" above the surface of the water. 
Having a ton of PAR isn't the end of the world, but I'm trying to have this tank be primarily Montipora with a few softies or LPS scattered around the far perimeters, the rockwork will essentially just be an artsy-interpretation of a solid 5-8" tall straight-line about 2-3" from the back-glass.

I think that at around 80% A and 100% blue I should be able to achieve nearly 150-200 PAR throughout the entire 6" depth-mark. But I imagine this would probably cause a near-unlivable hotspot under the center of the pucks - likely 500+ PAR, which just seems like a waste - although I could scape easily enough around it.


The other Idea I have is to try to sell the newly-refurbished 120W model I have for around $300 and then replace it with three 23-watt ABI Tuna-Blue PAR bulbs, hung about 8-12" from the surface of the tank, spaced out in one of two ways; either @ 7 1/2", 21", and 34 1/2"; or @ 5 1/4", 21", and 36 3/4" with the outside two bulbs angled towards the center at 15 degrees.

The downside to this plan is that I'm not certain what the PAR values will be lol, I can only work with the advertised lens-spreads (30 degree effective center and 60 degree lensing) and make cutesy little diagrams like this one (which is flawed, of course, as it assumes a single, central origin-point for the lighting and doesn't account for the 5" plane which houses the LEDS😞


bbb.jpg.89ea562868250edcba61bfeedc7371b0.jpg

 

Anyone with experience or thoughts care to offer some assistance? I may just end up buying them to trial things and then return them if it doesn't work out, I figured I can get some PAR readings in air and then subtract about 25-20% and have a decent idea of what I'll be dropping onto the animals.

Appreciate any time and advice to be offered!

Interesting.  If you look up japanese reef tanks, some (many?) of them are lit with small individual PAR bulbs.  reefbuilders may even have a post about it.  

 

as far as your actual question?  I got nothing 😄.

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A.m.P
36 minutes ago, mitten_reef said:

Interesting.  If you look up japanese reef tanks, some (many?) of them are lit with small individual PAR bulbs.  reefbuilders may even have a post about it.  

 

as far as your actual question?  I got nothing 😄.

I'll see what I can find, maybe there will be some more information on these abi bulbs. I have readings for the 12W, but not the 23W and too many people use these for nobody to have any PAR data at all - so I figured I'd fish for information and experience-informed advice lol.

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mcarroll
On 3/12/2020 at 11:52 AM, Amphrites said:

So, for trying to light a 42" span, if my math is correct, I *might* be able to get away with using the 120W two-puck maxspect razor if I mount it around 10-12" above the surface of the water

An okay plan if you already have these lights, but you'll be spilling a ton of watts over the front and back while you try and light up those distant ends.  Not a "great" option.

 

On 3/12/2020 at 11:52 AM, Amphrites said:

Anyone with experience or thoughts care to offer some assistance?

I don't think those PAR38's make any sense for such a shallow tank since they are designed with so much punch.  

 

A layout like you're describing makes some sense IFF they were dimmable.   If lenses are 60 degrees, then a 10" mounting height should give you a 12" diameter of coverage at the water surface from each light.  That's only about 3 square feet of coverage whereas you have about 4 square feet to cover....so ideally it would be 4 dimmable PAR38's like this.

 

You could probably substitute their 12 watt version (X4 units) and avoid the dimming, assuming it has the same lenses as the bigger model.....still not the most optimal setup IMO, but would be functional!!  (I'd prolly run them on individual timers and set them to simulate sun crossing the sky in lieu of sunrise/sunset effects.  (E.g. NIGHT,1on, 2on, 3on, 4on, 4on, 4on, 3on, 2on, 1on, NIGHT)

 

To me a 36-48" Orbit Marine strip makes more sense given the shallow depth and long, narrow footprint of this tank.  $220 brand new.....they come up for sale USED sometimes.

Orbit Marine LED Lighting System with LOOP Wireless Control

 

A pair of 48" TrueLumen Pro's would also work well at around $100 for the pair....plus transformer and dimmers if you want them.

48″ TrueLumen Pro LED Aquarium Light Strips

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A.m.P

The 12w unfortunately only have 30° lenses, while the 23w have the 60°.

I was taking a shot in the dark that the 5" effective surface area of the puck itself meant that the spread would be a bit larger than 12". I really only need to squeeze an extra two inches a piece from each bulb to hit 42" of coverage after all. I'm also not certain if 4 of the 12w will be able to provide enough par for an sps dominant system, though from what I've seen of the power these bulbs pack that shouldn't really be a concern lol.

 

I already have the maxspect and agree it would be an insane amount of wasted light, which is why I'm considering swapping it out if I can.

 

I do actually like that trulumen bar, any known PAR ratings at depth for them? It would be pretty easy to just hang a pair over the tank and treat them like CFLs.

 

EDIT: I found their data sheet, looking at it they seem to only put out around 48 par at six inches, so I think two would struggle to keep montipora happy.

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mitten_reef
49 minutes ago, Amphrites said:

The 12w unfortunately only have 30° lenses, while the 23w have the 60°.

I was taking a shot in the dark that the 5" effective surface area of the puck itself meant that the spread would be a bit larger than 12". I really only need to squeeze an extra two inches a piece from each bulb to hit 42" of coverage after all. I'm also not certain if 4 of the 12w will be able to provide enough par for an sps dominant system, though from what I've seen of the power these bulbs pack that shouldn't really be a concern lol.

 

I already have the maxspect and agree it would be an insane amount of wasted light, which is why I'm considering swapping it out if I can.

 

I do actually like that trulumen bar, any known PAR ratings at depth for them? It would be pretty easy to just hang a pair over the tank and treat them like CFLs.

 

EDIT: I found their data sheet, looking at it they seem to only put out around 48 par at six inches, so I think two would struggle to keep montipora happy.

I have the most recent orbit IC 36”-48” bars in classified. Check it out and let me know if you’re interested. It’s just collecting dust in my basement. 

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A.m.P
2 hours ago, mitten_reef said:

I have the most recent orbit IC 36”-48” bars in classified. Check it out and let me know if you’re interested. It’s just collecting dust in my basement. 

I took a look at your thread and it seems you weren't too impressed with their par output. 

Since I'm mostly growing Monti's and my tank has the same height and a longer footprint, I don't know if that would work out too well for me unfortunately - which is a shame because you've got them listed for a great price.

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mitten_reef
3 hours ago, Amphrites said:

I took a look at your thread and it seems you weren't too impressed with their par output. 

Since I'm mostly growing Monti's and my tank has the same height and a longer footprint, I don't know if that would work out too well for me unfortunately - which is a shame because you've got them listed for a great price.

As long as you’re not growing Acropora, The two bars should be more than sufficient to grow monti’s and other sps.  CurrentUSA has the par values listed somewhere on their website for a dual-bar setups, if the numbers are what you’re looking for. 

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mcarroll
7 hours ago, Amphrites said:

The 12w unfortunately only have 30° lenses, while the 23w have the 60°.

Think of that as a difference in mounting height rather than anything else....mount twice as high for the same diameter of coverage as the 60 degree lenses.

 

As long as that works for you, I still think they'd be a better (ie lower power) option.

 

3 hours ago, Amphrites said:

I took a look at your thread and it seems you weren't too impressed with their par output. 

Since I'm mostly growing Monti's and my tank has the same height and a longer footprint, I don't know if that would work out too well for me unfortunately - which is a shame because you've got them listed for a great price.

Orbit-Marine-Spectrum.jpgA single non-IC (ie plain Orbit Marine Model #4102) would be more than adequate and actually has better spread for this tank due to the 120 degree optics.  (PAR numbers can't account for this so appear lower intensity than the lights will be for your corals.  True for Kessils with their 140 degree lenses too.)   See chart at RIGHT:  50 and up should be fine, and your corals will be in the 70 and up territory with one of these.

 

An Orbit IC single (same watts, but 90 degree lenses) would be a little MORE than half of the values on the PAR chart below (which is for a Pro IC that has two fixtures).  Your tank is only 12" deep...excluding sand and rocks that will be under your corals.  Still plenty of PAR for the vast most of corals out there.

 

Orbit-IC-Pro-White-BLK-600x400.pngA Pro IC kit (ie dual fixtures....e.g. Model #4226) would be ridonkulous in terms of power (72 watts, via 90 deg lenses, over such a TINY, SHALLOW tank!!!!) as well as in terms of having the whole top of the tank blocked up with light fixtures. 

 

But if they are cheap enough, you can dim them and prolly be fine......just overkill is all. 

 

IC's also have 90 degree lenses, so ONE would be more compatible with being mounted on their 90 degree arms.  Two would blast too much light over the front and back of the tank to be mounted up like that....would have to be down on the tank rim (which is my pref. for these anyway....almost invisible).

 

 

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A.m.P

Hmm, I had looked at the PAR charts on their actual website and found that mitten's pair of IC non-pros should be throwing down 200ish PAR at 6-8" depth.

But I hadn't considered the difficulty of mounting them right next to each other. The stands they come with don't look as if they occupy too much space, but you mentioned it seeming easier to keep them down on the rim, I don't think that would be possible since they're only 36" and not the 48" versions.
Being 3.5" wide, I suppose that means the lights would be running down the tank at around 2" off center on each side, which sounds pretty well-centered to me, unless the mounting bracket it super-wide?
 

My main concern was with their only being 36", leaving 7" or so without direct light, I might be able to somewhat compensate by offsetting each bar 3" or so to either side however.

 

But the montis I'm growing tend to be higher-par animals, a Leng Sy and a Lantana especially - alongside a few undata. So I wasn't terribly offput by the concept of the spotlights blasting a few islands with somewhat spooky numbers... 

That's a tough call.

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mitten_reef

Mine is orbit marine ICs. The  IC “Pro” designation only means that they come as a double-bar package, not to be confused with their previous-gen’s Pro.  They do come with extendable wire legs, that’s why they’re 36-48” model.  Sorry, not trying to push sales here, just try to make correction to what might have been misunderstood.  
 

Leng Sy loves a lot of light, agree with you on that. I have one in my tank, and love it.  When the light is not strong, you don’t get the purple rim, my mini colony is sitting on the bottom of my tank and it’s just a green cap, but only I knew what potential beauty it holds.  I had the old colony up high at one point and it was beautiful, skim thru my thread around 2017-2018 to see it.  So if you’d prefer stronger light due to that particular Monti, I’d totally understand. 
 


 


 

 

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A.m.P
41 minutes ago, mitten_reef said:

Mine is orbit marine ICs. The  IC “Pro” designation only means that they come as a double-bar package, not to be confused with their previous-gen’s Pro.  They do come with extendable wire legs, that’s why they’re 36-48” model.  Sorry, not trying to push sales here, just try to make correction to what might have been misunderstood.  
 

Leng Sy loves a lot of light, agree with you on that. I have one in my tank, and love it.  When the light is not strong, you don’t get the purple rim, my mini colony is sitting on the bottom of my tank and it’s just a green cap, but only I knew what potential beauty it holds.  I had the old colony up high at one point and it was beautiful, skim thru my thread around 2017-2018 to see it.  So if you’d prefer stronger light due to that particular Monti, I’d totally understand. 
 


 


 

 

I did skim through your thread actually lol, only 20 pages or so this AM since we've been running around town all day though. It was really cool to see another happy Leng Sy ^^

It's a really-tempting offer, it's kind of frustrating as I contacted ABI and in a decade they haven't checked the PAR their bulbs put out lol... I may grab one just to finally put a bloody-chart out for people to use instead of just recommending them because "they work".
 

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mcarroll
44 minutes ago, Amphrites said:

My main concern was with their only being 36", leaving 7" or so without direct light, I might be able to somewhat compensate by offsetting each bar 3" or so to either side however.

Actually, if they go to the ends, thanks to reflected light, the ends of the tank end up being over-lit relative to the middle....so IMO these are perfect for your tank if you want to really blast it with light.

 

Spotlights would be a perfectly legit option as well, but the look would be very different....and overall light would be less, all things considered.  Four 24w spotlights will be 48 watts overall.....which is fine in and of itself.

 

But compared to the IC Pro setup at 72 watts, there's no comparison even when considering the stronger lenses in the spotlights -- the IC Pro setup will be really blasting the tank compared to the spotlight setup.   But it will also be lighting the tank A  LOT more evenly.  That's a double-win vs the spotlight setup.

 

To me the Current USA's are a no-brainer, at least given the lights we're talking about and your stated needs/wants. 

 

A set of Kessils would be "better" IMO if you wanted a different spotlight on the list.  A set of two or three Ocean Revive's could be an alternative to the Current USA setup.....I think they are the best black box out there due to the emitter setup. 

 

Your judgement may differ, but IMO they are all compelling options in their own right......I just think the Current setups mentioned fit your situation (SUPER shallow, SUPER wide) best.  If you want, you can even go for a 48" version if you really want the "coast to coast" coverage.

 

Remember:   Current's Truelumen's Pro strips are on sale 50% off.....about $50 each.  At 30 watts each, it would only take two or three....but you'd have room for more if you wanted since they are TINY compared to the Orbits.  As set of four 48" strips would only run you $238 plus transformers and manual dimmers, if you needed them too.  

 

48″ TrueLumen Pro LED Aquarium Light Strips

TrueLumen-Spectrums.jpg

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A.m.P

Well, since I'm feeling crazy and @mitten_reef was feeling exceedingly generous, I think I'll try the pair of 36" IC's plus one of the 12000k/465 duo lumen bars and see if the combo actually drops 400 PAR 8" deep, if it does I suppose I can just dim the IC's or sell the extra bar XD

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