Declining Leopard Wrasse

[Ratvan]

Hi All, 

 

@Humblefish, @mcarroll

Having an issue at the moment with my Leopard Wrasse. I first noticed that she was very lethargic on Monday (9th March), she was "perching" on the sandbed and not moving an awful lot which is very out of character for her. She would however swim and eat mysis from the end of the pipette when i fed the tank. After eating she would then go back to perching.

 

Photo's of "perching". She spent the majority of Monday like this

 

So I tested the Parameters of the tank, before placing her into my QT

Temperature 75F/24C (stable temp for tank for past 2 weeks) 
Salinity 1.024 (little low but cant see it being the issue)
PH 7.8
Alk 8 DKH
NH3 0
NO2 0
NO3 1
PO4 0.2
Calcium 420
Mag 1300

 

Yesterday 10th March. 

Seems more lethargic, Still eats, rests and buries. 

 

Today 11th March

Even more lethargic. Left sandbed at 3pm, ate mysis, retreated to sandbed

 

Not holding out a great deal of hope at the moment

 

THE QT HAS A SANDBED THAT REACHES 4" IN PLACES AND IS SLOPED SO I CAN EASILY OBSERVE THE FISH INSIDE THE TANK

Had her since October 2019.

[Humblefish]

How's your pod population in the DT? Their primary diet is pods, and they will sometimes get weak with too few pods to eat no matter how well you supplement feed them.

 

Another possibility is she has a spinal injury. When she does swim, is it done vertically with the tail down??

[Ratvan]

3 minutes ago, Humblefish said:

How's your pod population in the DT? Their primary diet is pods, and they will sometimes get weak with too few pods to eat no matter how well you supplement feed them.

 

Another possibility is she has a spinal injury. When she does swim, is it done vertically with the tail down??

Usually pretty good, can't say I've seen many lately though. Although I don't really check that on the daily.

 

Added a pouch (150ml) to QT before I left for the night. Will visit LFS on way into work and pick up another dozen pouches or so. 

 

It's not an injury (IMO) swims well, just can't seemed to be bothered to at the minute. 

 

Older video but you get the idea. Also that flashing is her breaking a pellet. She does/did that with Ceriths too

 

[Ratvan]

So yesterday I purchased a few (10) 120ml pouches, one went into the QT. One went into the DT. Will continue to does pods like this for the next week or so.

I wasn't in the office much but did not see her at all during the day. 

 

This morning (Friday 13.03.2020) have not yet dosed pods. Can see a lot on the glass will add a couple of pouches for the weekend before I leave today

 

[debbeach13]

I hope she makes it. Such a beautiful fish.

[Ratvan]

3 minutes ago, debbeach13 said:

I hope she makes it. Such a beautiful fish.

Thanks, so do I. Hope the fact that she's been buried for a few days is a good sign 🤷‍♂️

[Humblefish]

3 hours ago, Ratvan said:

Thanks, so do I. Hope the fact that she's been buried for a few days is a good sign 🤷‍♂️

She's using less energy, but IME that's not a good sign with Leopards. Healthy specimens typically adhere to a strict sleeping schedule. They are always out & about when they know it's feeding time.

[Ratvan]

1 minute ago, Humblefish said:

She's using less energy, but IME that's not a good sign with Leopards. Healthy specimens typically adhere to a strict sleeping schedule. They are always out & about when they know it's feeding time.

Well not dead yet and I need some form of good news at the moment so that'll do for me lol

[Tamberav]

@Ratvan

 

How often do you feed her and what do you feed her?

 

Does her head or belly look pinched at all? Did it when she became lethargic?

 

Was she ever treated for internal parasites? or flukes?

 

 

 

 

[Ratvan]

I rotate my foods for my tank but she seems to take anything I put in (except flake- thats just for Pele)

Intermittently feed the tank Mysis and BBS once a week

 

Monday: Pellets

Tuesday: Mussel Meat

Wednesday: Frozen Copepods (Gamma)

Thursday: Pellets

Friday: Mussel Meat

 

I've started to dose pods and phyto again as of Thursday this week to keep the population up.

 

No pinching at all she actually looks amazing now, just lazy. Colours were the best i have seen them, really bright, almost cartoonish in brightness

 

I treated with Prazi for the first 7 days when she was in QT, not seen any signs of Flukes or Parasites (huge poops)

 

Worth treating Pele (Filefish) for Parasites? The only other one I have left 

[Snow_Phoenix]

9 minutes ago, Ratvan said:

I rotate my foods for my tank but she seems to take anything I put in (except flake- thats just for Pele)

Intermittently feed the tank Mysis and BBS once a week

 

Monday: Pellets

Tuesday: Mussel Meat

Wednesday: Frozen Copepods (Gamma)

Thursday: Pellets

Friday: Mussel Meat

 

I've started to dose pods and phyto again as of Thursday this week to keep the population up.

 

No pinching at all she actually looks amazing now, just lazy. Colours were the best i have seen them, really bright, almost cartoonish in brightness

 

I treated with Prazi for the first 7 days when she was in QT, not seen any signs of Flukes or Parasites (huge poops)

 

Worth treating Pele (Filefish) for Parasites? The only other one I have left 

Might want to increase the feedings to twice or thrice a day - small amounts. But if she's fat, then that's good. 

Is she swimming normally (when she swims)? Or does she sink to the bottom?

[Ratvan]

1 minute ago, Snow_Phoenix said:

Might want to increase the feedings to twice or thrice a day - small amounts. But if she's fat, then that's good. 

Is she swimming normally (when she swims)? Or does she sink to the bottom?

I do multiple small feeds throughout the day, probably should have said that

She swims normally, just very very small distances and not very often anymore (not that i seen her lately) not tilting or tail down, still as fast as normal

Almost like she starts swimming and then says "f#ck this" and settles on the bottom

Not breathing faster than I have usually noticed

[Tamberav]

13 minutes ago, Ratvan said:

I rotate my foods for my tank but she seems to take anything I put in (except flake- thats just for Pele)

Intermittently feed the tank Mysis and BBS once a week

 

Monday: Pellets

Tuesday: Mussel Meat

Wednesday: Frozen Copepods (Gamma)

Thursday: Pellets

Friday: Mussel Meat

 

I've started to dose pods and phyto again as of Thursday this week to keep the population up.

 

No pinching at all she actually looks amazing now, just lazy. Colours were the best i have seen them, really bright, almost cartoonish in brightness

 

I treated with Prazi for the first 7 days when she was in QT, not seen any signs of Flukes or Parasites (huge poops)

 

Worth treating Pele (Filefish) for Parasites? The only other one I have left 

 

Vibrant colors can be a sign of cyanide poisoning but I don't believe sand sleeping wrasses are typically caught with such things. I think they just chase them into the sand and scoop them out?

 

I personally won't let mine stay buried. In QT I always made them come out and eat by gently disturbing where they slept. I know this causes stress but for me it was a benefits vs risk, I wanted them eating more than I wanted them not to be disturbed. I can't say if this is the right thing to do or not. 

 

Could anything have been bullying her? Wrasse will hide a lot if something is giving them shit. Then they miss meals and become weak.

[Ratvan]

3 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

 

Vibrant colors can be a sign of cyanide poisoning but I don't believe sand sleeping wrasses are typically caught with such things. I think they just chase them into the sand and scoop them out?

 

I personally won't let mine stay buried. In QT I always made them come out and eat by gently disturbing where they slept. I know this causes stress but for me it was a benefits vs risk, I wanted them eating more than I wanted them not to be disturbed. I can't say if this is the right thing to do or not. 

 

Could anything have been bullying her? Wrasse will hide a lot if something is giving them shit. Then they miss meals and become weak.

I would have expected Cyanide to have shown sooner than this though (at least 6 months later)? I thought that they would have with these due to the speed trying to catch (i can vouch for this) 🤷‍♂️. Although I guess it could have done a small amount of damage, she was recovering and the tank crashes (and cock ups) just put too much pressure on an already overworked system? Possible

 

Bollocks, I'm peeking

 

No she was the Bully in the tank

[Tamberav]

25 minutes ago, Ratvan said:

I would have expected Cyanide to have shown sooner than this though (at least 6 months later)? I thought that they would have with these due to the speed trying to catch (i can vouch for this) 🤷‍♂️. Although I guess it could have done a small amount of damage, she was recovering and the tank crashes (and cock ups) just put too much pressure on an already overworked system? Possible

 

Bollocks, I'm peeking

 

No she was the Bully in the tank

LA lists Maldives and Africa as collection areas so don't think cyanide is a big concern here.

 

They can be pretty fragile, I thought I was going to lose mine when I moved. She was swimming listless and slow and only accepting ova. I actually caught her easily with my hand and moved her back to QT (my QT is basically full blown reef though) where she wouldn't have to compete with other fish for food. I then fed the crap out of her with ova and she recovered and went back into the DT eventually and started eating anything I offered again. 

 

[Ratvan]

Hmmm i've been told Indo for these as an origin..... 

She's alive, disturbed the sand and saw her pop out, nibble a few bits off the glass and flash back into the sand 

[Tamberav]

6 minutes ago, Ratvan said:

Hmmm i've been told Indo for these as an origin..... 

She's alive, disturbed the sand and saw her pop out, nibble a few bits off the glass and flash back into the sand 

Do you know where she was collected? Where did you buy her from?

 

LA doesn't have any listed as indo but a quick google shows they range there. Probably different wholesaler?

 

Can't say I know a lot about it, I am just speculating. 

[Ratvan]

1 hour ago, Tamberav said:

Do you know where she was collected? Where did you buy her from?

 

LA doesn't have any listed as indo but a quick google shows they range there. Probably different wholesaler?

 

Can't say I know a lot about it, I am just speculating. 

Well I ordered a Tanaka Possum and got her so not overly confident they will know but I will ask. 

 

Definately a different wholesaler, me being in England and all

[Reefsamurai]

On 3/13/2020 at 1:12 PM, Ratvan said:

Well I ordered a Tanaka Possum and got her so not overly confident they will know but I will ask. 

 

Definately a different wholesaler, me being in England and all

I've been following your 130 thread and I think your wrasse issue may stem from the stressors of an unestablished and stable tank to include water conditions and low natural pod population. It may also be that this looks to be female colors and these wrasses do better(less stress) in groups. I've also noticed there's rubble in the tank. How fine is your sand bed for burial? 

[Ratvan]

32 minutes ago, Reefsamurai said:

I've been following your 130 thread and I think your wrasse issue may stem from the stressors of an unestablished and stable tank to include water conditions and low natural pod population. It may also be that this looks to be female colors and these wrasses do better(less stress) in groups. I've also noticed there's rubble in the tank. How fine is your sand bed for burial? 

The rubble is a capping layer on the fronts and sides of the reef only, very very fine sand