Debate: Will the Coronavirus outbreak affect the reefing community

[Tamberav]

When we get some mutated form of polio or some such that we have no vaccine for...I will gladly fall into hysteria.

 

I think.....the biggest problem we face is the fact our health care system probably can't handle the amount of people who could potentially need to be hospitalized at once. 

 

Even without coronavirus here in Milwaukee my hospital is almost always over capacity with people boarding in the ED. So how could we even begin to handle covid with the already sick or injured people? 

 

I looked right now and wait time in the ED of the main hospital is two hours and it's 1:20am and that's without covid.

 

 

 

 

[Sancho]

11 minutes ago, banasophia said:

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/11/fauci-recommends-against-large-crowds-coronavirus/

‘Fauci estimated that true mortality rate, given the number of cases that do not result in serious symptoms, as “somewhere around 1%, which means it is 10 times more lethal than the seasonal flu,” he said. “I think that’s something that people can get their arms around and understand.”‘

 

 

Not buying it...I’m for prevention however this seems to have been blown way out of proportion.  My point is that based on actual numbers the flu kills more...we don’t lock down travel, cancel events, postpone NBA, Coachella and run out of toilet paper during flu season.  Forgive my ignorance but all of this seems to be media driven.  If my time is up and Covid-19 is it so be it. I’m not gonna hoard TP  and live in fear life is too damn short for that nonsense 

[Clown79]

17 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

When we get some mutated form of polio or some such that we have no vaccine for...I will gladly fall into hysteria.

 

I think.....the biggest problem we face is the fact our health care system probably can't handle the amount of people who could potentially need to be hospitalized at once. 

 

Even without coronavirus here in Milwaukee my hospital is almost always over capacity with people boarding in the ED. So how could we even begin to handle covid with the already sick or injured people? 

 

I looked right now and wait time in the ED of the main hospital is two hours and it's 1:20am and that's without covid.

Ya, our average wait times are between 5-8hrs at emergency. We have 2 hospitals here

 

A lot of hospitals here often have to do hallway treatment they get so busy.

 

My mom had a mini stroke and Sat in the hallway for treatment and tests overnight

 

This is a common problem in most emergency depots here.

I'm not really sure how they will be able to cope with a influx of patients if an outbreak occurs.

[Sancho]

1 minute ago, Clown79 said:

Ya, our average wait times are between 5-8hrs at emergency. We have 2 hospitals here

 

A lot of hospitals here often have to do hallway treatment they get so busy.

 

My mom had a mini stroke and Sat in the hallway for treatment and tests overnight

 

This is a common problem in most emergency depots here.

I'm not really sure how they will be able to cope with a influx of patients if an outbreak occurs.

What can the hospital do for coronavirus??? There’s no treatment, cure or really anything that can be offered to a patient. 

[Tamberav]

9 minutes ago, Sancho said:

What can the hospital do for coronavirus??? There’s no treatment, cure or really anything that can be offered to a patient. 

Mostly the same thing they do when people are hospitalized with the flu.

 

They treat symptoms and keep a pt stable until the worst passes.

 

Frequent monitoring.....Breathing treatments...IV fluids....tamiflu...oxygen.... Bipap for the very sick and so on to keep airways working.

 

A lot of times when an older person gets the flu they can not compete their daily activities if living...they get so weak they fall frequently and so on and are unsafe to go home.

 

If you get sick enough from pneumonia or flu...or any infection... you can go septic....this is more dangerous and your blood pressure can crash and so on and you may need a bolus of fluids or a constant drip of iv medication to keep your pressures up otherwise your organs are screwed.

 

 

[Sancho]

Seriously they can hydrate you and maybe keep your fever down and give you respiratory therapy. All at a huge cost 

[banasophia]

14 minutes ago, Sancho said:

Not buying it...I’m for prevention however this seems to have been blown way out of proportion.  My point is that based on actual numbers the flu kills more...we don’t lock down travel, cancel events, postpone NBA, Coachella and run out of toilet paper during flu season.  Forgive my ignorance but all of this seems to be media driven.  If my time is up and Covid-19 is it so be it. I’m not gonna hoard TP  and live in fear life is too damn short for that nonsense 

Dr Fauci is not Geraldo Rivera... it may be beneficial to listen to the head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease. 

[Tamberav]

19 minutes ago, Sancho said:

Seriously they can hydrate you and maybe keep your fever down and give you respiratory therapy. All at a huge cost 

 

It's more for the frail or old or those with prexisting respiratory conditions that will need to be hospitalized. Unfortunately that's a large amount of people.

 

I have plenty of flu pts who would have died if not hospitalized. They were mostly all elderly though.

 

 

The average healthy adult can just take dayquill or something....but people love to come to the ED over nothing and waste time a lot too or they want drugs.

 

 

[Clown79]

45 minutes ago, Sancho said:

What can the hospital do for coronavirus??? There’s no treatment, cure or really anything that can be offered to a patient. 

Everything @Tamberav stated.

[Clown79]

41 minutes ago, banasophia said:

Dr Fauci is not Geraldo Rivera... it may be beneficial to listen to the head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease. 

I agree.

 

Not all media is lies and since we are talking about scientists, dr's who specialize in infectious diseases, etc. I think we should really be listening.

 

 

[Clown79]

On 3/10/2020 at 12:42 PM, Dirté Sanchez said:

Actually COVID-19 does discriminate. We haven't been able to figure out yet why it's sparing children. I mean, be very thankful, but it's a weird almost exclusively adult only virus.

it is very odd, there have been cases with children but very few and no deaths(which is definitely a positive)

 

We just had our first child case here. 

[Snow_Phoenix]

10 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

it is very odd, there have been cases with children but very few and no deaths(which is definitely a positive)

 

We just had our first child case here. 

A child died of it here, but the child had deformities and a weak immune system. 

Since we're extremely close to Singapore and can't exactly ban Malaysia-to-Singapore travel (a lot of Malaysians - Johoreans, to be more specific - work in Singapore and travel back and forth on a daily/weekly basis), we have had several cases. But the death cases are usually the elderly or those with compromised immune systems. 

 

Plus, the weather is very hot and humid here - so it's flu season too. Quite a number of people are sick, but with regular flu - not COVID-19. 

 

Otherwise, we do have special isolation wards allocated in most hospitals to quarantine COVID patients (or those suspected of it). They also banned group-travel from China so there's a steep decline in mainland Chinese tourists - our hospitality and tourism sectors are quite badly affected. (eg. empty hotels, empty resorts, cancelled bookings/conferences etc.)
 

[banasophia]

Right, older people (and they are using age 50 in a lot of the info I’ve seen!) and people with compromised immune systems... that’s a lot of people... like the rest of us, they are people that haven’t been exposed to this new virus or been able to get any vaccinations for it before.
 

High risk people are especially vulnerable, and that’s where we really have an opportunity to do our best to avoid spreading it when we think we have it, if we are in the lower risk categories and not seriously affected by it. It’s not about living in fear, it’s about doing our best to protect other people, following guidelines provided by those who are specialists in protecting the public health. 

 

Like, not going to group events, or even our favorite bar, when we think we may actually have it, keeping in mind that those around us we are exposing may not look like people with risk factors, but you can’t always tell by looking at people, and if the person you expose isn’t in a high risk category, they most likely have loved ones that are. 

[ECLS Reefer]

8 hours ago, Tamberav said:

When we get some mutated form of polio or some such that we have no vaccine for...I will gladly fall into hysteria.

 

I think.....the biggest problem we face is the fact our health care system probably can't handle the amount of people who could potentially need to be hospitalized at once. 

 

Even without coronavirus here in Milwaukee my hospital is almost always over capacity with people boarding in the ED. So how could we even begin to handle covid with the already sick or injured people? 

 

I looked right now and wait time in the ED of the main hospital is two hours and it's 1:20am and that's without covid.

 

 

 

 

It’s a scary thought but Italy has decided to move to treating the young over the old. If our healthcare system starts to wobble I wouldn’t be surprised if that doesn’t get tossed around here in the US

[olive]

22 minutes ago, banasophia said:

High risk people are especially vulnerable, and that’s where we really have an opportunity to do our best to avoid spreading it when we think we have it, if we are in the lower risk categories and not seriously affected by it. It’s not about living in fear, it’s about doing our best to protect other people, following guidelines provided by those who are specialists in protecting the public health. 

As a person with a suppressed immune system, I am at high risk. I really appreciate you for saying this, because for me COVID-19 does pose a serious risk. If you are not in a high risk population, you still need to think about the people that are and take the recommended precautions. This is different then the flu because there is no vaccination or widespread testng (at least in the US), which leaves it up to our bodies to fight the disease. 

 

Thank you for pointing this out @banasophia

[Clown79]

34 minutes ago, banasophia said:

Right, older people (and they are using age 50 in a lot of the info I’ve seen!) and people with compromised immune systems... that’s a lot of people... like the rest of us, they are people that haven’t been exposed to this new virus or been able to get any vaccinations for it before.
 

High risk people are especially vulnerable, and that’s where we really have an opportunity to do our best to avoid spreading it when we think we have it, if we are in the lower risk categories and not seriously affected by it. It’s not about living in fear, it’s about doing our best to protect other people, following guidelines provided by those who are specialists in protecting the public health. 

 

Like, not going to group events, or even our favorite bar, when we think we may actually have it, keeping in mind that those around us we are exposing may not look like people with risk factors, but you can’t always tell by looking at people, and if if the person you expose isn’t in a high risk category, they most likely have loved ones that are. 

Very well said.

 

Everyone has a responsibility to try to prevent spreading this further

 

The "I'm young, I'll be fine attitude" is self serving because its not about 1 individual, its about all the people. Maybe you will be fine but that person next to you won't be, or maybe their child, parent, partner etc etc won't be.

 

We had a Dr go back to work after traveling. She works at a cancer hospital. She went back to work and shortly after was positive for covid.

 

That's a lot of people who could have been infected and people of all ages in a seriously immunocompromised situations.

 

This was preventable 

[Clown79]

19 minutes ago, Dirté Sanchez said:

It’s a scary thought but Italy has decided to move to treating the young over the old. If our healthcare system starts to wobble I wouldn’t be surprised if that doesn’t get tossed around here in the US

I heard it was those with the most likely cases of survival, not really age.

 

Its sad that they are so over run that now they have to focus on putting all efforts on those who are more likely to survive

[DNR88]

The Prime Minister of the Netherlands announced today that all events and gatherings with more than 100 people will be canceled and that everyone should work from home who has any cough or cold.

 

Pretty serious measures now here! 😮

[cosmicbread]

56 minutes ago, banasophia said:

Right, older people (and they are using age 50 in a lot of the info I’ve seen!) and people with compromised immune systems... that’s a lot of people... like the rest of us, they are people that haven’t been exposed to this new virus or been able to get any vaccinations for it before.
 

High risk people are especially vulnerable, and that’s where we really have an opportunity to do our best to avoid spreading it when we think we have it, if we are in the lower risk categories and not seriously affected by it. It’s not about living in fear, it’s about doing our best to protect other people, following guidelines provided by those who are specialists in protecting the public health. 

 

Like, not going to group events, or even our favorite bar, when we think we may actually have it, keeping in mind that those around us we are exposing may not look like people with risk factors, but you can’t always tell by looking at people, and if the person you expose isn’t in a high risk category, they most likely have loved ones that are. 

+1

This thing is an order of magnitude deadlier than flu (1 - 3 percent), and many survivable cases seem to require hospital intervention. Yes, for most of those who are younger/healthy, it may barely graze you. However it is a huge risk to our parents, grandparents, immunocompromised etc. This cavalier attitude of "it doesn't affect me so you all are overreacting/being too fearful" is unbelievably selfish. 

 

I'm not advocating hoarding or legitimately fear-mongering. But canceling nonessential travel and not attending large gatherings, move theaters etc is our civic duty for the time being.

 

Aside from health consequences, and the impact on our hospitals (let us pray the US doesn't go the way of Italy, but it very well might considering how we refuse to test people so asymptomatic/mildly infected people are unknowingly spreading it around), it's gonna be an economic sucker punch for just about everyone. I am in the performing arts community and we are loosing money left and right from canceled concerts, school closures and travel restrictions. It sucks, but extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures and we need to buckle down, quit complaining and do our part. 

[William]

8 hours ago, Sancho said:

What can the hospital do for coronavirus??? There’s no treatment, cure or really anything that can be offered to a patient. 

They can put you on a ventilator when your lungs fill with fluid so that you don’t immediately die. 

[banasophia]

6 minutes ago, William said:

They can put you on a ventilator when your lungs fill with fluid so that you don’t immediately die. 

Oh yeah, I thought this was an interesting idea in the comments for the article I posted yesterday:

 

 

Here’s the link to the article again:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/10/coronavirus-what-matters-isnt-what-you-can-see-what-you-cant/

 

[cosmicbread]

Also, this testimony from Cristina Higgins...I hope that we are able to take this seriously, as an entire country certainly doesn't up and close shop for a "normal flu":

 

I am writing to you from Bergamo, Italy, at the heart of the coronavirus crisis. The news media in the US has not captured the severity of what is happening here. I am writing this post because each of you, today, not the government, not the school district, not the mayor, each individual citizen has the chance, today to take actions that will deter the Italian situation from becoming your own country’s reality. The only way to stop this virus is to limit contagion. And the only way to limit contagion is for millions of people to change their behavior today. 

If you are in Europe or the US you are weeks away from where we are today in Italy.

I can hear you now. “It’s just a flu. It only affects old people with preconditions”

There are 2 reasons why Coronavirus has brought Italy to it’s knees. First it is a flu is devastating when people get really sick they need weeks of ICU – and, second, because of how fast and effectively it spreads. There is 2 week incubation period and many who have it never show symptoms. 

When Prime Minister Conte announced last night that the entire country, 60 million people, would go on lock down, the line that struck me most was “there is no more time.” Because to be clear, this national lock down, is a hail mary. What he means is that if the numbers of contagion do not start to go down, the system, Italy, will collapse. 

Why? Today the ICUs in Lombardy are at capacity – more than capacity. They have begun to put ICU units in the hallways. If the numbers do not go down, the growth rate of contagion tells us that there will be thousands of people who in a matter of a week? two weeks? who will need care. What will happen when there are 100, or a 1000 people who need the hospital and only a few ICU places left? 

On Monday a doctor wrote in the paper that they have begun to have to decide who lives and who dies when the patients show up in the emergency room, like what is done in war. This will only get worse. 

There are a finite number of drs, nurses, medical staff and they are getting the virus. They have also been working non-stop, non-stop for days and days. What happens when the drs, nurses and medical staff are simply not able to care for the patients, when they are not there?

And finally for those who say that this is just something that happens to old people, starting yesterday the hospitals are reporting that younger and younger patients – 40, 45, 18, are coming in for treatment. 

You have a chance to make a difference and stop the spread in your country. Push for the entire office to work at home today, cancel birthday parties, and other gatherings, stay home as much as you can. If you have a fever, any fever, stay home. Push for school closures, now. Anything you can do to stop the spread, because it is spreading in your communities – there is a two week incubation period – and if you do these things now you can buy your medical system time. 

And for those who say it is not possible to close the schools, and do all these other things, locking down Italy was beyond anyone’s imagination a week ago. 

Soon you will not have a choice, so do what you can now. 

Please share.

I asked my son if this was true and he said yes, thankfully they have universal health care! This is what he wrote me back: Yeah man. Considering the situation here is with a lot of testing. There was a teacher who tested positive here...so they tested every child and the rest of every child’s family - at no cost obviously.

So just imagine, in a place as big as the US, how many cases there are that no one knows about.

This thing is spreading all the time. Do not go to crowded places at all, let alone bars or restaurants. Home and grocery shopping.

[kimberbee]

We're sort of getting away from the OP's original question and holy heck there's a lot of misinformation popping up in this thread... 🤦‍♀️

 

Short answer, at this point yes, it's effecting everything, unfortunately.

[Keeper of my nieces Ocean]

11 hours ago, Picogoby said:

I know for you the US is the only place on the planet, but there is a world out there and the information you link to is estimates and not facts. Typical US media! ( yes I do think even your government based info is totally biased). It’s social brainwashing....... many in the US also believe there is no such thing as global warming!

Just fyi, global warming has been debunked. Read a book

[Tamberav]

I'm don't think anyone is saying we should have a chicken pox party version of covid.

 

There was an armed robbery for toilet paper....

 

A fish medication.... is up on eBay for 100s of dollars....because it might help...never mind what the dosage is or the fact it's not pure and for fish use only....and misuse could make the covid resistant....