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Mazzy21

(support thread) updated to clown treatment thread

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Mazzy21

Okay nanoreef friends, I need your (virtual) hand holding right now.

My clown - long time resident, ~7 years, is sick. I *believe* that she is sick due to a long bout of very bad fish keeping on my part, so I believe what she has is an opportunistic bacterial infection or two, and possibly flukes.

Symptoms: darting; head flicks; clamped dorsal fin; heavy breathing; swimming into heavy water flow or the opposite, sitting still on the bottom; and the white areas of her skin have had what looks like "torn" spots for...frankly most of her life but have grown and multiplied slowly over her lifetime and more aggressively lately; and lastly she is pale.

No cloudy eyes, no spots, no excessive slime.

So, "support" - I am about to try a FW dip, for the first time. Normally I am a pretty staunch supporter of letting a fish fight on their own and medications are bogus, yada yada, but I have QT'd her and started dosing the tank with very overpriced MetroPlex from my LFS because I have no idea what she actually has and I don't think I can mentally take her dying. Seriously. I have been researching for days and gave my best guesses above so I figure I will see flukes with a FW dip if they are there and I'm already doing what I can against bacteria.

For anyone reading this, your virtual support would be greatly appreciated and is needed right now as I try this for the first time...

One ? - I only have 2 heaters - one on QT and DT. Can I microwave or boil a small amount of water and add it to the cold water to bring up temp?

I plan to leave her in for 5 minutes if she can handle it. I read that you should see flukes after 3-5 minutes.

PS - QT tank = (Fluval 13.5 EVO) bare bottom, back chamber pump running, another pump suctioned to the side blowing across tank bottom, a dual air pump w 2 lines running full out, a PVC tube for shelter, and a heater w current temp at ~82F. I am running poly in chamber 1.

20200119_120204.jpg

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Mazzy21

OMG! She was as feisty and dramatic as she's ever been. I had to keep the net constantly following her around the rim of the bowl because she was clearly going to jump out, then I turned to look at the timer and she went for it - in the sink, flopping around, with an open garbage disposal in the center!  (<-I had the bowl over it, but I didn't consider that I'd have to move the bowl for access to the sink if she jumped) Holy... that was... a LOT!

I didn't see any little brown/black things ON her like I have read that I would see if she had flukes. However, these little specks are in the bowl now and they weren't there previously, but I dunno... since I didn't SEE them coming off of her I feel like I don't know what it is and she did jump out so maybe it was debris??

Pics below but they don't show anything because the specks are so small.

20200119_141736.jpg

20200119_142428.jpg

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Humblefish

Are you seeing any skin peel or slough off?

 

She might have brook: 

 

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Mazzy21
27 minutes ago, Humblefish said:

Are you seeing any skin peel or slough off?

 

I only see what's in the pic above. There is no mucus at all.

She isn't eating. 😞

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Humblefish
2 hours ago, Mazzy21 said:

I only see what's in the pic above. There is no mucus at all.

She isn't eating. 😞

When you did the FW dip, did any flukes drop off? They would look like what you see below:

 

1459813183075.thumb.jpg.910af45c402faa611e63283d755a5e5f.jpg1459813172723.thumb.jpg.993e89dbda9553ea70dc952f5806a9b4.jpg

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Mazzy21

I did not see any little white things at all. I have been researching all day. I just don't know. 😞

I see one place called
Spruce Pets says that Brooklynella can cause a greyish coloration to skin. I don't see any mucus at all (and again, that pic above is just what she looks like, it was taken right before it was posted, today), but I DO see greyish skin all along the top half of her body. Hang on and I'll see if I can get a pic that will show it. Also, I notice that her gills on the right side appear red. It's hard to tell too much because of her orange color, but they definitely look more in the red-than-orange category to my eye.

Trying to get a pic of grey skin.... brb

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Mazzy21

Okay, it isn't great, but this was the best pic I could get to highlight that grey. It looks like it's under her skin at her head under dorsal fin and going back toward her tail. She's not doing great. More fins are clampy now. She's a strong fish so I really hope she pulls through but I am at a loss as to how to help her. Formalin bath?? I am giving her MetroPlex now. I also have Cupramine (but haven't used).

 

20200119_220747.jpg

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Mazzy21

You can see the contrast a little bit here as well.

20200119_221321.jpg

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Mazzy21

UPDATE: so this morning she had some white spots on her and clearly her skin has some small blotchy spots as well. I'm actually happy about this because now at least I feel like I can treat with copper and be on the right track. What's strange is that within about 30 min of turning on the lights, many of those white spots she had shaken off. I DID do a very small water change because I'm trying to lower the salinity (like 2 gallons or so), and when I did that I was just using a small black salt bucket so I could see many little white roundish floaties in the water I was taking out.

She is breathing SLIGHTLY less rapidly that she was. She is still flicking/twitching her body a little, but she has also taken her head out of the corner of the tank which I'm also happy about. She was laying on the bottom in the corner last night; she is still at the bottom but actively swimming in that position this morning.

I am going to do a larger water change right now to drop salinity from 1.023 to ... however low I can get it with 2 buckets of 1.015. The LFS said to stay at 1.020, and on here I saw 1.009, so I'm currently aiming for middle ground.

I will also add Cupramine after this water change, and continue the MetroPlex (metronidazole).

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Humblefish

I would treat with Cupramine + Metroplex + Kanaplex. That will cover a wide array of issues. I also would keep SG @ 1.020.

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Mazzy21
7 hours ago, Humblefish said:

I would treat with Cupramine + Metroplex + Kanaplex. That will cover a wide array of issues. I also would keep SG @ 1.020.

Thank you. I wish I would have read this earlier. I just dropped the salinity down a little more (was doing it in increments). Just tested, it's at 1.016. If you see this, is this fine to leave her at? I have now put in the second little clown - the new guy and certainly the problem. I thought he was fine and she caught what she caught due to stress and lowered immunity, but I saw him pooping white and stringy tonight and then he glanced off the water surface so I grabbed him and threw him into QT too. He's stressing her though. 😞 But I don't have 2 tanks to use for QT.

I see tonight her fins are getting a little raggedy now, and I see a couple white spots again tonight. Hopefully they will have fallen off by morning. I will grab some Kanaplex. Thank you.

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Mazzy21

Actually I have a couple other ?s if you could help - Do I do all three meds simultaneously or stagger them? And I've been water changing every couple days, which I realize takes out the meds, but is that okay so long as I replace them? I have not medicated salt water fish, ever.

I change the polyfil every day too, thinking I may be removing some trapped swimming stage parasites. 🤷‍♀️

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Humblefish

I would raise SG back up (slowly). The problem is Cupramine becomes more toxic in lower salinity. Toxic isn't the exact right way of putting it, but Seachem recommends 0.5mg/L in saltwater vs 0.25mg/L in freshwater. So, half strength.

 

You can dose all three meds together, but I would remove the polyfilter (and any carbon) as that removes medications from the water (especially copper).

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Mazzy21

Thank you for all your help. I have removed the polyfil, and just did a WC and added a new round of meds. I also bought some garlic cloves and made a heavy garlic water to soak food. I tried it, she still didn't eat. 😞 If she won't eat there may be nothing I can do even if she is "healing" from the disease. She's looking bonier in the face/head area, I assume because she hasn't eaten in days.

 

The 'new guy' is showing some white spots now that he is exposed to the meds but he is basically perfectly fine. He's eating and shows no signs of distress.

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Mazzy21

My clown still isn't eating. She is still breathing heavily but not as frantically as she was at the start of treatment. She is real pale though. I'm really wondering exactly how long a fish can live without eating. 😞

She IS I think between 6-8 yeas old. I can't remember when exactly I got her but she has been with me her whole life. We've been in this apt for two years and I got her while in my last apt which I was in for 7 years so she's not exactly young for a clown. But I read they can live up to ten years in captivity so I don't know if she'd be truly considered "old" either.

I hope she starts to eat. I've soaked food in homemade garlic water. She doesn't care.

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mcarroll

How did this work out?

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