Tank is being attacked by brown spiderweb

[Reefjunkye]

I will definitely stop by my lfs see what they recommend. But most likely they will tell me to buy vibrant from them lol. This dino is really pissing me off. 

[Seadragon]

1 hour ago, Reefjunkye said:

I will definitely stop by my lfs see what they recommend. But most likely they will tell me to buy vibrant from them lol. This dino is really pissing me off. 

Just be cautious when asking a salesman for advice.  The last time I did, my LFS sold me Zebra Turbo Snails and told me they were Mexican Turbo Snails which is what I wanted.  They didn’t care, they just wanted the sale.

[Reefjunkye]

2 hours ago, Seadragon said:

Just be cautious when asking a salesman for advice.  The last time I did, my LFS sold me Zebra Turbo Snails and told me they were Mexican Turbo Snails which is what I wanted.  They didn’t care, they just wanted the sale.

Haha 😂 

anyways I came back from dinner today and Shiet !! I think it’s Dino 100% cuz it has air bubbles. 

 

 

[Seadragon]

5 minutes ago, Reefjunkye said:

Haha 😂 

anyways I came back from dinner today and Shiet !! I think it’s Dino 100% cuz it has air bubbles. 

 

 

Yep, looks like it.

[Reefjunkye]

So you had the same thing? Sea dragon? I am so stressed right now.. 

[Clown79]

14 hours ago, Seadragon said:

I looked over your Journal in your signature link and your tank looked so beautiful.  Sorry that you're having these issues now.  In some of the shots, it does remind me of dino's like I had in the School NR which no longer has it..

 

I agree that you want to make sure that you have good flow in there.  Also, continue to siphon any of that dino-looking snot out, you don't want to keep that on the corals.

 

Personally, I dosed 1 ml of Hydrogen Peroxide (3%) per 10 gallons for one week on the School NR, and haven't had that issue since (on the 4th day, the Dino's disappeared).  And I also made sure my Chaeto macroalgae was growing well (at the time, I didn't have the right lighting to grow it) and I introduced Tisbe copepods several times beforehand.

 

Good luck, I hope it gets better.

You may not have had dino's then as peroxide is not effective on them, if anything it makes them worse.

 

 

12 hours ago, Reefjunkye said:

Two hours later after sucking it out.. so frustrating. Should I use vibrant? Never heard of hydrogen peroxide 

It looks like dino's.

 

You can do the jar test if you don't have a microscope, unfortunately the jar test doesn't identify what strain.

 

Have you tested your p04? 

 

Did it get worse after a waterchange and media change? 

 

Don't blow it off the corals, it spreads the dino's as dino's love flow.

 

I completely beat dino's twice and I went the completely natural route.

It took about 2 months in my 25g and 2 weeks in my pico.

Pico was less time because I knew what to do and did it right away.

 

I fully detailed my process in my journal, dark side of the lagoon

 Page 7 is where it starts.

[Seadragon]

10 hours ago, Reefjunkye said:

So you had the same thing? Sea dragon? I am so stressed right now.. 

 

I had that all over my rocks and like I said, I don't have it anymore.  It looked like this:

But, was only on the rocks.

 

If you really research Dino's on google and look at a lot of information, you'll eventually come across a few commonalities...

1. It's toxic and can kill things in your tank.  That is why I siphon that toxic crap out. (A lot of online sources agree with this.)

2. The most successfully thing that actually beats it in the end that I found and that I actually used myself was making sure that my Chaeto can outcompete it. (There's also videos out there that show in the end, it was their Chaeto that outcompetes it and keeps it from coming back.)

 

- I removed as much visible Dino's as I could find in the tank by siphoning it out.

- I dosed 1 ml of Hydrogen Peroxide (3%) per 10 gallons for one week . (On the 4th day the Dino's disappeared from the rocks.) Again, there's plenty of online sources for this too, just google. (In that link, another hobbyist said: "I got rid of dinos twice before by dosing it. My tanks are 99% sps and I seen no issues. Zoas might temporarily close but will reopen in no time. I was worried the first time because I have $1000's in corals but dinos was taking away the pleasure I was getting from the tank. Dose for a week and your dinos should be gone or close to it." "I used the recommended 1 ml per 10 gallons. I dosed it at night when the lights have been off for a few hours. I did not spot treat, just dumped it into the tank. There is several huge threads with people who success doing it. I know it's scary at first but once it's gone you will be so happy you did.")  In my opinion, this just temporarily eliminates it while your chaeto is taking back control, but yes, there's a lot of other success stories out there besides me.

- I added additional lighting back to my Chaeto since it wasn't growing at all under inadequate freshwater LED lights.

 

I already had Chemical (carbon) filtration in the tank, so it's a good idea to have that because Dino's can release toxins that can kill your livestock.

I already added Tisbe copepods twice before this issue occurred.

Don't do any water changes during this process because you'll just give more nutrients for the Dino's to flourish.

** As I was browsing videos and articles, it probably wouldn't hurt to dump some starter bacteria into your tank during this process, especially after you siphon out the Dino's.  I was watching a BRS (Bulk Reef Supply) video on Dino's and they recommended adding good bacteria to your tank which doesn't sound like a bad idea, but in my case, I didn't have to.

 

And, it didn't take half a year to go away.  It took less than week.

 

If you do choose to try this, give us updates after a week and if it works, make sure to let everyone on here know so I have another reference point. 😉

 

[A.m.P]

The thread I linked to has literally hundreds of reference points, H202 won't work on half or more of the strains out there and can instead kill-off their competition, large-cell variants like toxicus and amphi can cyst-up and survive oxidizing agents better than the nitrifying-bacteria in our systems. 

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-–-are-you-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/

[Seadragon]

14 minutes ago, Amphrites said:

The thread I linked to has literally hundreds of reference points, H202 won't work on half or more of the strains out there and can instead kill-off their competition, large-cell variants like toxicus and amphi can cyst-up and survive oxidizing agents better than the nitrifying-bacteria in our systems. 

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-–-are-you-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/

 

I'm confused, @justinkdenny has been following that advice for the past 125 days and still no luck?

 

On 1/9/2020 at 11:24 AM, justinkdenny said:

Still no luck. 

 

Probably just needs a few more months and it'll work.

 

 

[Clown79]

2 hours ago, Seadragon said:

 

I'm confused, @justinkdenny has been following that advice for the past 125 days and still no luck?

 

 

Probably just needs a few more months and it'll work.

 

 

He needs to add more biodiversity.

 

Adding established liverock, seeding with various pods, getting nutrients up is still the best method.

 

Dino's love low to no nutrients and their main competitor is pods. 

 

Peroxide kills the micro organisms as well as competing algaes, allowing dino's to multiply. 

[justinkdenny]

1 minute ago, Clown79 said:

He needs to add more biodiversity.

 

Adding established liverock, seeding with various pods, getting nutrients up is still the best method.

 

Dino's love low to no nutrients and their main competitor is pods. 

 

Peroxide kills the micro organisms as well as competing algaes, allowing dino's to multiply. 

My problem is I think toxins are killing my pods I add.  Where can I get small amounts of good live rock?  Lfs doesnt carry the real stuff, just fake that has been in cure tanks.

[justinkdenny]

4 minutes ago, justinkdenny said:

My problem is I think toxins are killing my pods I add.  Where can I get small amounts of good live rock?  Lfs doesnt carry the real stuff, just fake that has been in cure tanks.

I'm going to run through a 10 micron sock and then change out carbon and then add more pods from my culture. 

[Seadragon]

53 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

He needs to add more biodiversity.

 

Adding established liverock, seeding with various pods, getting nutrients up is still the best method.

 

Dino's love low to no nutrients and their main competitor is pods. 

 

Peroxide kills the micro organisms as well as competing algaes, allowing dino's to multiply. 

 

We're almost saying the same thing.  I also believe more biodiversity needs to be added.

 

I believe getting nutrients up, adding copepods, as well as adding Chaeto or helping it grow is important.  Adding starter/good bacteria sounds like a good idea to me also.

 

Dino's love systems that are too clean with no nutrients, although I believe their main competitor is biodiversity.  Which includes copepods, macroalgae, bacteria, and algae.

 

To me, siphoning out visible Dino's and using a small dose (1 ml per 10 gallons) of Hydrogen Peroxide (3%) for just 1 week is just enough to keep some strains of Dino's from repopulating too fast while the biodiversity can do its job.

 

So, we're almost saying the same thing, and in some cases, it can work either way.

[A.m.P]

3 hours ago, Seadragon said:

 

I'm confused, @justinkdenny has been following that advice for the past 125 days and still no luck?

 

 

Probably just needs a few more months and it'll work.

 

 

Kind of a low-blow, some folks do everything right and more and still end up fighting for months.

That's the way these systems work.

 

It's the OP's decision, but there are hundreds of systems on that thread and quite a few have run into trouble dosing H202, one bloke specifically tested drip-dosing controlled amounts of H202 and measured the impact on their outbreak.

 

Anyway I don't think tryin' to drag Kenny's bad-time out and through the mud is the best way to go about proving a point.

 

A refugium can help, a refugium which bottoms out your P04 and N03 will still give you Dino's.

[Seadragon]

I think it's to everyones benefit, including @Reefjunkye and @justinkdenny, to know their options and what worked for each person.  Knowledge is power.  The moment you try to censor something that actually worked for an individual is the same as censoring freedom of speech.  I know what worked for me and it also makes logical sense.  In the end, it was biodiversity.  But, me and countless others had success with a short term, small amount of dosing H2O2 for just a week.  To say it won't work is just a lie because it can and it did in my case.

[Clown79]

2 hours ago, Seadragon said:

I think it's to everyones benefit, including @Reefjunkye and @justinkdenny, to know their options and what worked for each person.  Knowledge is power.  The moment you try to censor something that actually worked for an individual is the same as censoring freedom of speech.  I know what worked for me and it also makes logical sense.  In the end, it was biodiversity.  But, me and countless others had success with a short term, small amount of dosing H2O2 for just a week.  To say it won't work is just a lie because it can and it did in my case.

I myself tried peroxide, it doubled the amount of dino's I had.

 

Through research I learned it was one of the worst things I could have done.

 

Chaeto can be beneficial

4 hours ago, justinkdenny said:

My problem is I think toxins are killing my pods I add.  Where can I get small amounts of good live rock?  Lfs doesnt carry the real stuff, just fake that has been in cure tanks.

Did you dose phyto every other day to keep the pod population going and did you build a pod condo in a secure area for them to reproduce?

 

 

[A.m.P]

4 hours ago, Seadragon said:

I think it's to everyones benefit, including @Reefjunkye and @justinkdenny, to know their options and what worked for each person.  Knowledge is power.  The moment you try to censor something that actually worked for an individual is the same as censoring freedom of speech.  I know what worked for me and it also makes logical sense.  In the end, it was biodiversity.  But, me and countless others had success with a short term, small amount of dosing H2O2 for just a week.  To say it won't work is just a lie because it can and it did in my case.

Nobody is trying to censor you or dismiss your personal experience, however some here are trying to provide experience gleaned from hundreds of systems and hours of reading. It ultimately isn't any of OUR decisions, like I stated previously.

That all said I don't think that phrasing means what you think it does, nor has anyone here claimed that H202 doesn't work on some of the thousands of dinoflagellate species.



Below is a bit about equity of speech vs freedom of speech, don't take it personally as it's a simple-correction and deconstruction of common pop-culture misconceptions and memetic-mantled beliefs.

First off, dismissing anecdotal evidence is not censorship it's a prerequisite of statistics and science.
Secondly "freedom of speech" is a simple concept many have never been properly-taught.

What you are requesting here is Equity of speech, you wish for your opinion to be valued the same as others without sufficiently-meeting your own burden of proof.
It's this lack of evidence past the anecdotal which has others trying to point out methods which fall more in-line with proven and established-knowledge of the community, it's not an attack against you personally and there's no need to get defensive.

To further expound, everyone is free to say what they wish provided it is free of slander or does not immediately-endanger-others (both of these are actually illegal, for instance screaming "fire" in a theater is not protected speech). 

However the right to an opinion and to "speech" does not guarantee a platform, that one's opinion will be treated equally with others or not dismissed when provided without sufficient-evidence, nor does it shelter one from the consequences of putting their opinion out in the open. These realities are often-overlooked in an age where social-media has accustomed everyone to feeling entitled, not only to a platform, but to protect and shelter their belief systems from objective-reality - instead choosing to feel "censored" or personally attacked by others whom insinuate they may be mistaken (flat-earth, anti-vaxx, identity-politic, etc.).


Anyway this is off-topic and unhelpful to the OP, our ego's, opinions, and/or beliefs are not relevant to the OP's issues.

[Seadragon]

1 hour ago, Amphrites said:

Nobody is trying to censor you or dismiss your personal experience, however some here are trying to provide experience gleaned from hundreds of systems and hours of reading. It ultimately isn't any of OUR decisions, like I stated previously.

That all said I don't think that phrasing means what you think it does, nor has anyone here claimed that H202 doesn't work on some of the thousands of dinoflagellate species.



Below is a bit about equity of speech vs freedom of speech, don't take it personally as it's a simple-correction and deconstruction of common pop-culture misconceptions and memetic-mantled beliefs.

First off, dismissing anecdotal evidence is not censorship it's a prerequisite of statistics and science.
Secondly "freedom of speech" is a simple concept many have never been properly-taught.

What you are requesting here is Equity of speech, you wish for your opinion to be valued the same as others without sufficiently-meeting your own burden of proof.
It's this lack of evidence past the anecdotal which has others trying to point out methods which fall more in-line with proven and established-knowledge of the community, it's not an attack against you personally and there's no need to get defensive.

To further expound, everyone is free to say what they wish provided it is free of slander or does not immediately-endanger-others (both of these are actually illegal, for instance screaming "fire" in a theater is not protected speech). 

However the right to an opinion and to "speech" does not guarantee a platform, that one's opinion will be treated equally with others or not dismissed when provided without sufficient-evidence, nor does it shelter one from the consequences of putting their opinion out in the open. These realities are often-overlooked in an age where social-media has accustomed everyone to feeling entitled, not only to a platform, but to protect and shelter their belief systems from objective-reality - instead choosing to feel "censored" or personally attacked by others whom insinuate they may be mistaken (flat-earth, anti-vaxx, identity-politic, etc.).


Anyway this is off-topic and unhelpful to the OP, our ego's, opinions, and/or beliefs are not relevant to the OP's issues.

Don’t get too excited, I’m just stating what worked for me and countless others.  I understand there are many possible solutions to different strands of Dino’s.  I’d rather know a bunch of different ways that worked for hobbyists than to be told there is only one way above all.  Because in some cases, you could be wrong.  Let’s keep our minds open to the possibilities and not shut out ideas that worked for others.

[Matteo]

Chemiclean Redslime remover would work. I bet. And you can safely does whole tank. 

 

Cheap little bottle that treats up to like 300 gallons

[Clown79]

12 hours ago, Amphrites said:

Nobody is trying to censor you or dismiss your personal experience, however some here are trying to provide experience gleaned from hundreds of systems and hours of reading. It ultimately isn't any of OUR decisions, like I stated previously.

That all said I don't think that phrasing means what you think it does, nor has anyone here claimed that H202 doesn't work on some of the thousands of dinoflagellate species.



Below is a bit about equity of speech vs freedom of speech, don't take it personally as it's a simple-correction and deconstruction of common pop-culture misconceptions and memetic-mantled beliefs.

First off, dismissing anecdotal evidence is not censorship it's a prerequisite of statistics and science.
Secondly "freedom of speech" is a simple concept many have never been properly-taught.

What you are requesting here is Equity of speech, you wish for your opinion to be valued the same as others without sufficiently-meeting your own burden of proof.
It's this lack of evidence past the anecdotal which has others trying to point out methods which fall more in-line with proven and established-knowledge of the community, it's not an attack against you personally and there's no need to get defensive.

To further expound, everyone is free to say what they wish provided it is free of slander or does not immediately-endanger-others (both of these are actually illegal, for instance screaming "fire" in a theater is not protected speech). 

However the right to an opinion and to "speech" does not guarantee a platform, that one's opinion will be treated equally with others or not dismissed when provided without sufficient-evidence, nor does it shelter one from the consequences of putting their opinion out in the open. These realities are often-overlooked in an age where social-media has accustomed everyone to feeling entitled, not only to a platform, but to protect and shelter their belief systems from objective-reality - instead choosing to feel "censored" or personally attacked by others whom insinuate they may be mistaken (flat-earth, anti-vaxx, identity-politic, etc.).


Anyway this is off-topic and unhelpful to the OP, our ego's, opinions, and/or beliefs are not relevant to the OP's issues.

Very well said.

 

One thing we always forget- forum/YouTube research vs scientific research. 

 

Sometimes what works, worked because the original problem was misidentified/misdiagnosed.

 

Sometimes it's just a bandaid- like blackouts and it will come back, not if but when.

 

Alot of hobbyists gravitate to the easy and quick, some luck out, most don't.

[justinkdenny]

19 hours ago, Clown79 said:

Did you dose phyto every other day to keep the pod population going and did you build a pod condo in a secure area for them to reproduce?

I dosed every day for a long time and I built a encloser in the back chamber that I put rock rubble in.

[Seadragon]

1 hour ago, justinkdenny said:

I dosed every day for a long time and I built a encloser in the back chamber that I put rock rubble in.

 

Did you focus on the other 3 things as well?  Adding or supporting Chaeto (or another fast-growing macroalgae) and adding good/starter bacteria?  Adding live rock will give a big boost to the biodiversity as well.

[justinkdenny]

2 hours ago, Seadragon said:

 

Did you focus on the other 3 things as well?  Adding or supporting Chaeto (or another fast-growing macroalgae) and adding good/starter bacteria?  Adding live rock will give a big boost to the biodiversity as well.

I have added bacteria ATM colony and dr Tim's waste away as per reefdudes video on YouTube.   I later found out by others on this forum that dr Tim's would take down nitrates and phosphates which is counter productive so I quit that one.  The video said it was large mouthed bacteria that ate dinos.  I never used macro algae because I read it would also suck out phosphates and nitrates.   I have asked a bunch on here recommendations for small quantities of quality live rock but haven't got an answer yet.  

 

Thanks for your help.

[DSFIRSTSLTWATER]

On 1/10/2020 at 9:59 PM, Seadragon said:

 

Did you have any issues with the Vibrant Liquid Aquarium Cleaner killing the Chaeto macroalgae?  I was reading through the Questions and Reviews on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Vibrant-Liquid-Aquarium-Cleaner/dp/B01JMI003W/) and there's a bunch of customers whom say it killed off their Chaeto which can be problematic.

 

They sell Hydrogen Peroxide (3%) at like every pharmacy and drugstore here in the US, and also on Amazon.  Heck, I think they even sell it at the dollar store. 😄

I've been using vibrant for 7 weeks now with no ill effects. It's knocked out about 80 percent of my gha. It's really slow to work but is absolutely awesome. I would recommend it to everyone. I don't run macro or chaeto so I can't speak to that part of it.

[Seadragon]

24 minutes ago, justinkdenny said:

I have added bacteria ATM colony and dr Tim's waste away as per reefdudes video on YouTube.   I later found out by others on this forum that dr Tim's would take down nitrates and phosphates which is counter productive so I quit that one.  The video said it was large mouthed bacteria that ate dinos.  I never used macro algae because I read it would also suck out phosphates and nitrates.   I have asked a bunch on here recommendations for small quantities of quality live rock but haven't got an answer yet.  

 

Thanks for your help.

 

I actually feel bad that you're experiencing these Dino's.  If it was my tank, I'd do a couple things right away to get rid of those damn Dino's.  Whether or not you dose H2O2 and even if the Dino's disappeared (temporarily) because of that, that is not the End Game solution.  The long term solution will always be biodiversity.  So, no matter what you do (and hopefully you do this before you end up quitting or restarting), you really need to give Chaeto a try and add some live rock.  And keep siphoning out the Dino's.  What I found that really keeps the nitrates and phosphates too low is a protein skimmer which is why I do not use those on any of my tanks.  I believe you said you have one of those, why not stop that for now, start using chaeto and have the chaeto outcompete the Dino's, and use mechanical & chemical (carbon) filtration to maintain good water quality and remove toxins that the Dino's may release.