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karen nation

Need fast cycle or instant even better

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karen nation

Up date on my tank.  My son spent over a week in hospital with flu and pneumonia so we just keep it running with the live sand and the infused rock.  I ordered the biospiriand dr tims, but I stopped at a local fish shop just to look around and pick up water and she said to bring in water and she would test it for free and maybe it was cycling already.  I expected nothing to be going on at all, but I wanted to pick up more water anyway so after testing my water I was shocked!  She said it was cycling and I was high on ammonia and nitrates!  She said my phosphates I think It was maybe ph, specific gravity  were good and she said to do nothing but a 50 percent water change and bring it in next week, she is going to guide me along.  Apparently that rock was more live than I thought! I called the shop to inquire more about it and the employee didnt know a thing!  I might call back and ask for manager but anyway, things have slowed way down and I am truely getting impatient but I have waited this long so will follow through.  Is it not strange that about 12 days of just running the filter that I would be high on nitrates and ammonia.  I hope I havnt screwed things up just leaving it alone tending to my son, hopefully with her guidance and you guys I can get on right track and have some fish in a few weeks!  I will wait for corals and may leave lights off for a month or so BFS says 4 months!!!  I sure dont have that type of patience!

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Clown79

I hope your son is ok and on the mend.

 

Since your tank is going through a cycle, it will cycle on it's own. There is nothing to be done now, its about waiting for the nitrogen cycle to process.

 

Once your ammonia and nitrites are 0, you can then do 50% or more water change.

 

There are a few instances when a waterchange should be done during cycling

 

1. Ammonia is above 5ppm

2. When you are cycling with fish.

 

This hobby is all about going slow and patience. Nothing good happens fast. 

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karen nation
5 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

I hope your son is ok and on the mend.

 

Since your tank is going through a cycle, it will cycle on it's own. There is nothing to be done now, its about waiting for the nitrogen cycle to process.

 

Once your ammonia and nitrites are 0, you can then do 50% or more water change.

 

There are a few instances when a waterchange should be done during cycling

 

1. Ammonia is above 5ppm

2. When you are cycling with fish.

 

This hobby is all about going slow and patience. Nothing good happens fast. 

She recommended to do a 50 percent change now and come back next sat and check again.  The nitrogen and amonia were pretty high, she showed me the color chart and it was pretty dark. So I guess It will lower to zero on its own with water changes? 

 

I have watch so many youtubes, but just not finding the right ones I guess.  Is there a good book to get that I read and go back to.  I cant keep having you guys and this lfs haha.  I do have a master salt water and a reef kits as well, refractometer.  I am just not sure what to do once she says your good add a few fish, so a good book would be great from there. 

 

As a matter of fact lots of bad info on some of these youtubes.  I never soaked my rock just rinsed it, maybe that was a problem, or maybe it's just cycling and doing what it is supposed to do, but the lady at the LFS was shocked at the reading I know that.  She said I must have gotten caribe sea dry live rock but its not as infused as that but lots of publish and pink spores were on it.  That store is 45 minutes away and no one seems to know what I bought when I called.

 

whats you opinion of leaving lights off the first few months after adding fish to avoid new tank syndrome?  

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banasophia

I hope your son is doing better. 🤗
 

If you post a pic of your tank we can probably tell you if it’s CaribSea LifeRock. This is what it looks like:

 

2BE6B9F9-BF6A-4C55-8170-B21542B47B01.thumb.jpeg.1dc340f80e8534107eefc84fb162b8b6.jpeg

 

Don’t add fish if there is any ammonia in your tank. Ammonia is dangerous to fish.

Don’t do a water change if there is ammonia, unless the ammonia level is over 5 when it’s tested. 

You can add the BioSpira if you want, it will speed up the cycling process. The bacteria in the BioSpira will work to convert the ammonia -> nitrite -> nitrate.

You do not need to cycle your tank for 4 months, that is a special method described on BRS but it is not the norm. 

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Jmevox

As others said you don’t do a water change until ammonia and nitrites are 0. Also, you can leave your lights off for the cycle but not after adding fish. 

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Seadragon

 

7 hours ago, karen nation said:

She said I must have gotten caribe sea dry live rock but its not as infused as that but lots of publish and pink spores were on it.

 

6 hours ago, banasophia said:

CaribSea LifeRock

 

I had to look up CaribSea Life Rock and found out from a few websites that: "CaribSea Life Rock is colored to simulate real coralline algae so you don't have to wait 6-8 months for coralline algae to grow to have a mature-looking tank."  I wonder if that paint flakes off eventually.

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banasophia
53 minutes ago, Seadragon said:

 

 

 

I had to look up CaribSea Life Rock and found out from a few websites that: "CaribSea Life Rock is colored to simulate real coralline algae so you don't have to wait 6-8 months for coralline algae to grow to have a mature-looking tank."  I wonder if that paint flakes off eventually.

No, the coating on the CaribSea Liferock doesn’t really flake off... at least it hasn’t yet in my tank and I’ve had it nearly two years in my 16. Sometimes when the emeralds pick at an area a lot it picks off tiny little bits leaving tiny white dots, but it doesn’t harm them and then coralline or other algae grows and hides the spots. It’s excellent rock, in my opinion, and I would never use anything else...  using it avoids hitchhikers, it looks nice from the start, and seems pretty resistant to algae growth. I do use sacks of Seachem Matrix Media in my back chambers to boost the surface area for beneficial bacteria, just in case it doesn’t have as much porosity as natural rock. 
 

Before and after of my Biocube 16:

 

605DC507-ECB1-4C52-9C74-7EA2CCF70E26.thumb.jpeg.6ac75eee080e09af9046f7c8aff03809.jpeg
 

88FFFF8E-7B50-4468-BD90-23D7422349F0.thumb.jpeg.b1fd7f0177ecb3cef6730ec80ad7c09f.jpeg

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Tired

Life Rock is sold dry. It has no live things on it, only paint to make it look like live coraline. Which, granted, does look better than white rock at first.

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Seadragon
15 minutes ago, banasophia said:

88FFFF8E-7B50-4468-BD90-23D7422349F0.thumb.jpeg.b1fd7f0177ecb3cef6730ec80ad7c09f.jpeg

 

Damn, that's pretty!  What's the bright yellow species called in the lower-mid portion?

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banasophia
9 minutes ago, Seadragon said:

 

Damn, that's pretty!  What's the bright yellow species called in the lower-mid portion?

Thanks so much! Those are sun corals... they’re non-photosynthetic so I feed them nearly every night. 

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karen nation
On 1/1/2020 at 10:47 PM, Seadragon said:

 

And I always thought Ammonia and Rotten Meat was the slow way to complete the Nitrogen Cycle since they may not be using Starter Bacteria.

 

I already mentioned it before, but I use Instant Ocean BIO-Spira + additional Nitrifying bacteria from two other sources + Live Sand and I added my two small Ocellaris Clownfish immediately (they're still healthy and alive today) and I didn't have to wait at all, it was instant gratification.

 

In my opinion, those that really push hard for Ammonia and Rotten Meat do not like the idea of adding fish immediately after adding Nitrifying bacteria.  It's more of a vocal PETA mentality rather than the Internet Generation.  To me, the Internet Generation is just everyone expressing their opinions and having vast amounts of information at our finger tips rather than 3 books on the shelf and no one to talk to.

What were the 2 other bacteria you added?  I was going to go that route but after adding water and b4 bacteria my son got sick and hospitalized so I  and just left my tank alone and wasnt sure if it was doing anything, for about 12 days. I added live sand and infused rock from the start.  I had my water tested and high on nitrates and ammonia, told do do a 50 percent water change and check back.  I kind of wish I would have done the route you spoke off.  Everyone on here was so against that it seemed!  I am cycling but may have thrown things way off and might be waiting forever!

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karen nation
14 hours ago, Seadragon said:

 

Damn, that's pretty!  What's the bright yellow species called in the lower-mid portion?

I love it!  I like the gorgonian on both sides and love the sun corals!  Are they hard to keep?  I read you have to feed them everyday like 3 times!  I love the bright yellow so much!  Excellent job!

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karen nation
14 hours ago, banasophia said:

Thanks so much! Those are sun corals... they’re non-photosynthetic so I feed them nearly every night. 

I love them so much!  You tanks looks amazing!  I have had my eye on sun corals but I did read the fact they are non photosynthetic and feeding 3 times a day i thought.  I love the gorgonians on both sides.  Makes it look so even like they are framing the corals.  I  think I may have to copy you and might be my first corals!  LOL   Are they non photosynthetic?  I think I read they were as well or maybe it was the red and white ones that were. 

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banasophia

Most of my gorgonians are photosynthetic.

 

You should just add the BioSpira... your tank has ammonia according to what you posted... you are getting overwhelmed by all the different methods to choose from, but if you just add the BioSpira you’ll be good... it has the bacteria you need in it that will convert the ammonia to nitrites and then to nitrates. No water change yet. No fish yet. 

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karen nation
23 hours ago, banasophia said:

I hope your son is doing better. 🤗
 

If you post a pic of your tank we can probably tell you if it’s CaribSea LifeRock. This is what it looks like:

 

2BE6B9F9-BF6A-4C55-8170-B21542B47B01.thumb.jpeg.1dc340f80e8534107eefc84fb162b8b6.jpeg

 

Don’t add fish if there is any ammonia in your tank. Ammonia is dangerous to fish.

Don’t do a water change if there is ammonia, unless the ammonia level is over 5 when it’s tested. 

You can add the BioSpira if you want, it will speed up the cycling process. The bacteria in the BioSpira will work to convert the ammonia -> nitrite -> nitrate.

You do not need to cycle your tank for 4 months, that is a special method described on BRS but it is not the norm. 

I took a pic but have to get my hubby to post it.  I don't know how..lol The rock is no where near that dark.  Light pinkisnh purple when wet and purple spores all on it.  I am so confused as to what to do.  The lady at this LFS right by my house said she would guide me, she is thee owner and she said not to add bacteria now.  It was very high on nitrates and ammoniaa, she told me to do a 50 percent water change and come back next friday

 

I can test myself as well.  Its hard to find any info on where I am at in my cycle now.  I hope she knows what she is talking about.  I know I had read that dosing with ammonia it was supposed to rise and fall 3 times and after the third it meant you were cycled.   

 

My filter just broke so earlier I went right out and bought a new one!  Boy the luck.!  I just bought a aqua clear 30 and I was using purigen in one that broke and in new one now and a friend gave me some matrix to so I have the matrix just about 10 rocks mixed with the biorings it came with and just carbon it came with and sponge. Maybe tomorrow I will get polyfloss thats thinner and instead of the fat corse sponge it came with.  That way I can fit more, or maybe just take out the biorings! Also the carbon and use chemiblue elite, like i had planned, or  Maybe i should take it back and oversize it with the aqua 50, I know some people also use phosguard  not enough room in the basket of the 30.  I am second  guessing myself on everything now, entirely different subject I know!  LOL I may put out a new post on what people use if they have aqua clear, very popular it seems for HOB. 

 

Oh, and brs didnt sy cycle 4 months.  They said biospiria and add fish next day, but then 4 months with lights off after fish!  Seems crazy!  They are impatient about cycling telling you next day then 4 months lights off after!  Whos wants to look at a dark tank for 4 months!  Especially with fish in it!   Several people suggested their advise and I watch 52 weeks or reefing series and also several nano tank set up videos and  5 minute reefing series as well.

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karen nation
33 minutes ago, banasophia said:

Most of my gorgonians are photosynthetic.

 

You should just add the BioSpira... your tank has ammonia according to what you posted... you are getting overwhelmed by all the different methods to choose from, but if you just add the BioSpira you’ll be good... it has the bacteria you need in it that will convert the ammonia to nitrites and then to nitrates. No water change yet. No fish yet. 

went by her advise and changed water already.  It was very high, someone on here sia d to as well if it were over 5 or something.  Now seems everyone is saying I shouldn't have. She seems very knowledgeable and owns a nice local store, not the one I bought the rock from 45 minutes from here.   

 

  MY filter broke today as well! !  What a mess!  I wish I would have done that (biospiria)from the get go and just added the clownfish next day or within the first week!  Really, at this point, and without having tested for the 12 days or so when It was running and I was at hospital!  I don't know If I am up or down anymore!  haha I really didnt expect anything when I went and had her test it and now it just threw everything off. 

 

Dosnt look like unique corals is going to refund my money either!  I am unsure whether to fight it with paypal because they said I won that 1,000.00 torch coral!  If  I lose no way will they honor that and I was going to ask them to send it in 3 shipments spaced apart like starting in a month or so.  If I lose that is!   Their website said only hold for 2 weeks as well.  Funny how they never notified me I won, just saw it on their site and now its no longer on their since they had a new sale and a new winner Jan 4th!  That person won 4 corals!  I supposedly won one that dosnt exist!  Torch of God!

 

 

 

 

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karen nation
On 12/30/2019 at 1:16 PM, Seadragon said:

 

I actually do something very similar.  I add Instant Ocean BIO-Spira + additional Nitrifying Bacteria that is found in Pink Coralline Algae in a Bottle + additional Nitrifying Bacteria that is found in Purple Coralline Algae in a Bottle + Nature's Ocean No.0 Bio-Activ Live Aragonite Live Sand and added two small Ocellaris Clownfish.  These original two Ocellaris Clownfish are alive and much larger now in my Office Nano Reef.

 

I tested the water parameters daily until I was satisfied that the Nitrogen cycle was complete, and then started slowly adding invertebrates.  I added the Cleaner Shrimp last just to be extra safe.

Wish I would have done hat because now I have a big mess on my hands!  I havnt heard one person say they didnt have success after adding live bacteria then fish, but It was a big no no on here.  I wanted to do it that way to since I wasnt going to be here to dose and son at hopital, but I dint expect that it would start cycling and have high nitrates and ammonia now with just infused rock and live sand.  I added nothing.  Now everyone says I should not have changed water and  should add biospiria nd she said no.  No need for that because it was cycling.  Someone said that would lower the nitrates and ammonia, so I am going to talk to her about that.  I am going to be seeing alot of her anyway, because she has the rodi water I will be buying.

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Sancho

Your cycle will happen with or without a filter. Running carbon, filter floss and even purigen really has no impact on when the tank is cycled and ready for fish. I’ve never heard of 3 ammonia spikes and good method. If your ammonia stays really high I’d recommend a partial water change. Dump a bottle of biospira in and test a few days later.  Your live rock may be new and not cured and might have high amounts of decaying matter in it...hence the need for beneficial bacteria to break it down. Don’t get caught up in all the various methods to cycle a tank. Pick one and follow it. No one wants to wait 4-6 months to cycle a tank and I’ve never had a tank that hasn’t cycled in a few weeks. 

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karen nation
1 hour ago, banasophia said:

Most of my gorgonians are photosynthetic.

 

You should just add the BioSpira... your tank has ammonia according to what you posted... you are getting overwhelmed by all the different methods to choose from, but if you just add the BioSpira you’ll be good... it has the bacteria you need in it that will convert the ammonia to nitrites and then to nitrates. No water change yet. No fish yet. 

So I was high in nitrates as well, dosnt nitrite come first?  I already changed the water before everyone started saying I shouldnt. One person said If it was above 5 which it was to change water.  I will just wait until I see her friday.  I can test myself as well.  Its just hard to know what to do hearing  so many different things.  It was the 12 days I was away that messed this all up, but I cant change that.   If It is low on nitrates and ammonia on friday, being it was high before I assume I would be safe and cycled.  I have no idea and under these circumstance I dont even know how to google or find info.  I thought i read though that it had to rise and fall 3 times to be cycled.

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karen nation
1 minute ago, Sancho said:

Your cycle will happen with or without a filter. Running carbon, filter floss and even purigen really has no impact on when the tank is cycled and ready for fish. I’ve never heard of 3 ammonia spikes and good method. If your ammonia stays really high I’d recommend a partial water change. Dump a bottle of biospira in and test a few days later.  Your live rock may be new and not cured and might have high amounts of decaying matter in it...hence the need for beneficial bacteria to break it down. Don’t get caught up in all the various methods to cycle a tank. Pick one and follow it. No one wants to wait 4-6 months to cycle a tank and I’ve never had a tank that hasn’t cycled in a few weeks. 

I had planned on doing with biospiria nd then dr tims dosing and My son went to hospital for 10 days right after.  My rock was infused but dry.  Just had pink and purple spores on it, could it still be decaying matter if it was dry? Maybe previously live but It wasn't real dark live.  

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Seadragon
5 hours ago, karen nation said:

What were the 2 other bacteria you added?  I was going to go that route but after adding water and b4 bacteria my son got sick and hospitalized so I  and just left my tank alone and wasnt sure if it was doing anything, for about 12 days. I added live sand and infused rock from the start.  I had my water tested and high on nitrates and ammonia, told do do a 50 percent water change and check back.  I kind of wish I would have done the route you spoke off.  Everyone on here was so against that it seemed!  I am cycling but may have thrown things way off and might be waiting forever!

 

Sorry for the delay, I was unconscious (asleep) and couldn't respond at the time.  There were other people in this thread that also add the BIO-Spira besides me by the way... such as:

On 12/30/2019 at 1:00 PM, Poison Dart Frog said:

I added a fish right after biospira on my last setup. It was fine but in my opinion not ready for corals yet. I went through a heavy diatom stage a few weeks later but it's been good ever since and actually mostly algae free compared to my first tank which was set up using live rock and patience. 

 

And there's other people on this forum that do the same, not sure if @banasophia and @Sancho also follow this method as well.  Anyways, to answer your question, at the start of my tanks, before there was ammonia and nitrites, I added the following then added my two clownfish (which are big and healthy still today).

 

And all of my fish and invertebrates are still alive and I have real Red and Purple coralline algae all over my rocks and plastic (heater, circulation pumps, in-tank filtration) which you can see in my Office NR journal if you wanted proof.

 

If you have high ammonia right now (> 5 PPM), the best path is to do a water change to get your ammonia down and then add the BIO-Spira/Nitrifying Bacteria.  I personally do water changes in emergency situations.  A LOT of sources say to do a water change if ammonia gets too high during the cycling phase, and I would do so BEFORE you add the starter bacteria so you can get back to where you need to be.

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mitten_reef
12 minutes ago, Seadragon said:

 

Sorry for the delay, I was unconscious (asleep) and couldn't respond at the time.  There were other people in this thread that also add the BIO-Spira besides me by the way... such as:

 

And there's other people on this forum that do the same, not sure if @banasophia and @Sancho also follow this method as well.  Anyways, to answer your question, at the start of my tanks, before there was ammonia and nitrites, I added the following then added my two clownfish (which are big and healthy still today).

 

And all of my fish and invertebrates are still alive and I have real Red and Purple coralline algae all over my rocks and plastic (heater, circulation pumps, in-tank filtration) which you can see in my Office NR journal if you wanted proof.

 

If you have high ammonia right now (> 5 PPM), the best path is to do a water change to get your ammonia down and then add the BIO-Spira/Nitrifying Bacteria.  I personally do water changes in emergency situations and that is what you have right now.  A LOT of sources say to do a water change if ammonia gets too high during the cycling phase, and I would do so BEFORE you add the starter bacteria so you can get back to where you need to be.

while I don't doubt your current situation and success.  The fast-track life of aquarium keeping won't necessary be the way to keep things going long term.  your tanks (based on the journals' dates) started in September and november 2019 respectively, and you have already had to deal with dino at least once, per your thread's comments.  I'd like to see how your tanks settle in for the next 6-12 months as the ecosystem develops and matures.  there are plenty out there that believe that these shortcuts contribute to more problems long-term.  

 

Yes, individuals' method of tank husbandry after the quick start will also determine how much success those people may have.  

 

What I'm getting at:  you can advocate for quick methods on various topics, and I love seeing them, but majority of times quick fix (of anything) is what got people in troubles when it comes to reef keeping.  So we need to consider what, why, how people are asking for help - and provide guidance thoughtfully.    

 

 

 

 

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Seadragon
8 minutes ago, mitten_reef said:

while I don't doubt your current situation and success.  The fast-track life of aquarium keeping won't necessary be the way to keep things going long term.  your tanks (based on the journals' dates) started in September and november 2019 respectively, and you have already had to deal with dino at least once, per your thread's comments.  I'd like to see how your tanks settle in for the next 6-12 months as the ecosystem develops and matures.  there are plenty out there that believe that these shortcuts contribute to more problems long-term.  

 

Yes, individuals' method of tank husbandry after the quick start will also determine how much success those people may have.  

 

What I'm getting at:  you can advocate for quick methods on various topics, and I love seeing them, but majority of times quick fix (of anything) is what got people in troubles when it comes to reef keeping.  So we need to consider what, why, how people are asking for help - and provide guidance thoughtfully.    

 

 

 

 

 

That actually doesn't even make sense.  So you think adding BIO-Spira is the "fast-track life of aquarium keeping"?  Do you know how many hundreds of thousands of people and probably more actually used BIO-Spira in their tanks with great success and still have tanks running today?  While I thank you for your input, the Dino's was only in the School NR, never had it in the Office NR due to so much biodiversity in that tank.  Dino's hate biodiversity.  I've since added live rock and got the chaeto growing well in the School NR so it's no longer a problem.  Just keep an eye on the tanks for the next 6-12 months and get back to me on your thoughts.

 

 

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Clown79

You are getting too wrapped up in the various methods.

 

You need to do some research and not just on forums and YouTube. Educational websites.

 

If you don't have an understanding of how the system works, you are going to have difficulties.

 

 

 

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Clown79
3 hours ago, karen nation said:

I had planned on doing with biospiria nd then dr tims dosing and My son went to hospital for 10 days right after.  My rock was infused but dry.  Just had pink and purple spores on it, could it still be decaying matter if it was dry? Maybe previously live but It wasn't real dark live.  

Regardless if there is decaying matter or not, bacteria naturally builds over time, with or without adding bottled bacteria or ammonia source.

 

Your tank is cycling. There is nothing that needs to be done now besides monitoring your levels and researching.

 

When the cycle is done, you do a waterchange and slowly add livestock.

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