Ceiling is dropping with larger fish tank. Move it ?

[Candymancan]

So this wont be short but i need to give info.  My 135g tank is in my bedroom. And right now for the last nearly 2 years its been sitting parralell to the floor joists.  Meaning its sitting length wise on the joists.  The joists are 2x10s spaced 16 inchs apart they are spanning about 13 feet .so essentually its sitting above 2 joists only.  Directly in the middle if them.

 

Both ends of the joists however are sitting on load bearing beams.  Which look like two 2x12s (dont qoute me on it) nailed together.  Those are some sort of orangish color wood the joists are a whiteish pine.

 

I occasionally check out the ceiling below for signs of stress and the last say 6 months ive noticed a few nails on the ceiling poping out.  I noticed the actual wall wall below the ceiling has a crack in the drywall.  And now today looking at it again the drywall on the ceiling where it meets the drywall on the physical wall is sagging.  Due to the sag the drywall has cracked along the seem of the two basically the entire length of ny tank.

 

Now obviously this all means the joists are sagging from the weight overtime.  But i also am not sure if this really that bad or if i should move the tank.  

 

The only option to move it would be to move it a few feet away from where it is now against the other wall.  But the right end of the tank would be covering my window ( not worried bout algae i have those light blocking blinds and curtains. )  but not having access to my window sucks.

 

This wall though is perpendicular so the tank will be sitting on nearly 5 joists.  And below it is a giant bay window but above the window in the drywall is a loadbearing beam those 2x12s nailed together.. and the joists all sit on top of it.   Pretty sure this is a better spot to support my tank.

 

Sorry for making this so long.  But what do you guys think ?  Keep it where its at and just keep monitoring the ceiling.   Or move it blocking my window.  Ill have to drain most of the tank. Take out rocks so i dont cause them to collapse. Itll be a pain in the butt. Ill habe to level the stand again using shims and so forth.. such a pain.

 

 

[N/A]

If it was me id have moved it all ready. You have gotten lucky so far and have not had them fail. But once they do you will have a lot more issues then a blocked window.

[LazyFish]

I would move it very soon the longer it sits on the failing joists the worse the dammage to the structure will be.

[Candymancan]

So do you think my proposed spot is fine ? Like i said itll sit on the end of pretty much 5 joists and they sit on a load bearing beam. But there is a bay window down below.  Hense the load bearing beam

 

Here is pic of it outside. Itll sit along the outside wall above that big window.  But again the span above the window is two 2x12s together with all the joists sitting on top of it

 

 

[RedCrow]

(Where n = the weight of the load, x = the distance that load is spanning, b = the max bending moment for the grade of lumber used, and s = the required section modulus of the lumber)

 

{[(n•x)/8]•12}/b = s

 

assuming the tank weighs 1600lbs, and you need to span 13 feet, and we’re assuming the floor joists are made of standard construction grade spruce (which has a max bending moment of ~1200 for a standard 2x10, but we can use 1380 since the joists are 16in on center and the tank is a dead load), our equation becomes 

 

{[(1600•13)/8]•12}/1380 = 22.6

 

your tank requires a beam with a section modulus of no less than 22.6 support its weight. 

 

To calculate section modulus of a beam: multiply the actual width by the depth squared of your beam: in the case of a 2x10: 1.5•9.25•9.25=21.39. 
 

so one of those joists isn't enough to support your tank, let alone the house it’s already tasked with holding up. 
 If it were me, I’d add two more 2x10s below the tank to assist in holding up the load. 

 

[A.m.P]

Move the tank (preferably to ground floor), reinforce the new location, and call a contractor to take a look at the damage as it's unlikely to stop or go away after you move the weight.

[Tamberav]

Yikes... I would put it on the ground floor. 

 

I doubt it is good your house is damaged and sagging.... Those beams hold up more than just your tank.

[Candymancan]

Well i did more digging my friend pointed it out to me anyway lol.  The wall and ceiling next to this wall is also cracked along the entire seem where the ceiling and wall meet. Then at the corner the crackcgoes straight down and the drywall is split big time.

 

The tank isnt even near these walls i think my house is shifting and cracking the drywall. Ive had to repair cracked drywall around the house in the past.

 

Red crow the tank is sitting on two joists i drilled holes in the floor to find the joists and set the tank directly on top of them.  Tank is 18 front to back joists are 16.  Plus whatever load is spread among the subfloor and the wooden stand.   If you saying one joist can support 1200-1300 lbs.  My tank weighs approx 1600-1700 lbs ( its a 40 year 1.2 inch thick glass tank) so it probly weighs 100-150 lbs more then a newer 125.  Then two joists should be able to hold 2600-2700 lbs ? Which is 1000 lbs more then my tank.

 

Or am i getting this wrong ?

 

Here are pics of the cracks im talking about 

 

The forst pic is of the entire room below.  My tank is sitting above that wall unit.  My bedroom spans the length of the right of the wall unit until the center pole boxed in by the drywall on the left of the drywall.  Right there is a pole supporting the load bearing beam i mentioned that the joists connect too.  The otherwall above the painting (picture two) has its own joists for a diff room yet that ceiling is cracking and even the wall is horribly cracked. (Picture 3)

 

Pic 4 and 5 is the ceiling above the wallunits (where my tank is) same cracks like the wall not even near my tank.  So im wondering like i said if this is actually just house shifting cracking my drywall.  Because i would figure if the joists were sagging wouldnt i notice this using a long and short lvl on my fish tank because its exactly the same lvl on all 4 corners and the span as i put it at 2 years ago.

[mcarroll]

Interesting problem. Interesting answers!

 

I think I'm on the team that wants to move it to the first floor though.  No way that can happen?

[Tamberav]

A professional would be the best course of action vs what forum users think or you think or your friends think. 

[Candymancan]

I have 3 floors. First floor would be no diff thrn the 2nd floor and the basement isnt a 1st floor its the basement technicly.  That isnt an option to move it there.   

 

I know for sure moving the tank along the outside wall would be fine as itd sit along 4.5 to 5 joists on a load bearing beam. Thats more then enough support.  But i reeeeealy dont wanna do that unless i have too.

 

Now that i discovered the ajoining ceiling and walls are cracked im starting to doubt its my tank doing this.  Seems to coincedental specially since my house has had cracks in the ceilings and walls from settling before.  Even my foundation has cracks ive had to seal.  

[Seadragon]

You know what you really want to do.  Hire a professional to take a look at the damage and fix it.  And then downgrade to a more manageable 55 or 75 gallon tank. 🙂

 

[Tamberav]

I also have 3 floors. Basement, 1st, and 2nd.

 

My tank is on 1st floor above the basement. I think it is different structurally? I mean the first floor has to be strong enough to support the 2nd floor too?

 

My basement has a HUGE steel beam running across the ceiling. I put my tank directly over it. I don't believe any such beam like this exists for my 2nd floor. At least not one so huge/strong.  

 

@Candymancan

[mcarroll]

My 125 sits across multiple joists perpendicularly, and is only about 12 inches from the steel beam that supports them in the basement and still moves a ton when people run or jump around in the room that it's in. I can't imagine having the tank running across just one or two joists in parallel, what that would be like "in action" so to speak. Terrifying? 😱

[Candymancan]

28 minutes ago, Seadragon said:

You know what you really want to do.  Hire a professional to take a look at the damage and fix it.  And then downgrade to a more manageable 55 or 75 gallon tank. 🙂

 

Why would i downgrade this lol

 

 

[Candymancan]

3 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

My 125 sits across multiple joists perpendicularly, and is only about 12 inches from the steel beam that supports them in the basement and still moves a ton when people run or jump around in the room that it's in. I can't imagine having the tank running across just one or two joists in parallel, what that would be like "in action" so to speak. Terrifying? 😱

 

 

Floors are actually designed to shake like that.  My grandfather clock weighs only 100 lbs and the chimes and door shakes when my dog walks by.  

[Seadragon]

On 12/20/2019 at 2:48 PM, Candymancan said:

Why would i downgrade this lol

 

 

 

I was just concerned about this...

 

        

 

😉

 

[A.m.P]

Looks like damage from foundation settling, however the bowing you are describing is most likely not coincidental. It wouldn't hurt to have a contractor take a look at things and temporarily draining the tank and moving it to the better-supported area would be a better long-term idea regardless. Also Tam is correct in the first-floor being better-able, on average, to bear weight than the upper-floors on most residential buildings -different standards for construction.

[RedCrow]

3 hours ago, Candymancan said:

 

Red crow the tank is sitting on two joists i drilled holes in the floor to find the joists and set the tank directly on top of them.  Tank is 18 front to back joists are 16.  Plus whatever load is spread among the subfloor and the wooden stand.   If you saying one joist can support 1200-1300 lbs.  My tank weighs approx 1600-1700 lbs ( its a 40 year 1.2 inch thick glass tank) so it probly weighs 100-150 lbs more then a newer 125.  Then two joists should be able to hold 2600-2700 lbs ? Which is 1000 lbs more then my tank.

The joists are already supporting 2600-2700lbs of house. Adding a 1600 lbs load over those beams is overloading them. If you want to keep it there you need to add an appropriate beam dedicated to supporting just the weight of the tank. 

[A.m.P]

2 minutes ago, RedCrow said:

The joists are already supporting 2600-2700lbs of house. Adding a 1600 lbs load over those beams is overloading them. If you want to keep it there you need to add an appropriate beam dedicated to supporting just the weight of the tank. 

This would be ideal, but difficult for most folks without the aide of a contractor.

[parajax]

Such a beautiful tank.  It belongs in the main living areas for all to enjoy.    If it was me, a tank of that size would always be on first floor, unless i had extra bracing.  I would be concerned constantly regarding leaks and structure support.  

 

[Seadragon]

14 minutes ago, parajax said:

Such a beautiful tank.  It belongs in the main living areas for all to enjoy.    If it was me, a tank of that size would always be on first floor, unless i had extra bracing.  I would be concerned constantly regarding leaks and structure support.  

 

 

You have to admit, it brings new meaning to sleeping with the fishes.

[Humblefish]

I'd move it to the ground floor. Knowing the joists are sagging from the weight of the aquarium would keep me up at night.

[johnmaloney]

23 hours ago, Candymancan said:

Why would i downgrade this lol

 

 

Lol definitely worth the price of an engineer to keep it where it is. 

[Clown79]

20 hours ago, Humblefish said:

I'd move it to the ground floor. Knowing the joists are sagging from the weight of the aquarium would keep me up at night.

I couldn't sleep at night either.

 

It would definitely be on the main floor where you also have concrete foundation support or basement(concrete)