5 year old clown sick? Edit: 1.5year later it's back

[Kayman]

Thanks! Yeah I actually read that earlier and did pick some up. Just got home from work and she looks to have some life in her yet, so don't think I'll be euthanizing tonight. She is back down towards the bottom but has a slight tilt to her leaning to the right. I did use a net to catch her and she did get a gill stuck a bit so I'm wondering if that could explain the new issues.

 

I've since read that I shouldnt have used a net really so I don't plan on trying that again.

[Kayman]

Welp, her skin is looking worse especially around her mouth. Not sure if you'll be able to tell in the pictures. I dosed prazipro today and tomorrow if I can catch her might try using Safety Stop. She's more active still since the fw dip but now just kinda swims in circles in her cave and bumps into things.

 

My birdsnest has fully retracted after dosing the prazipro so hopefully that is just temporary.

[Humblefish]

Those white splotches could be the start of brook: https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/402151-brooklynella-fish-disease-information/

 

A FW dip would have provided temporary relief, but symptoms often return if the fish is placed back into an infected DT.

[Humblefish]

The other possibility I'm wondering about is if he's getting stung by those Euphyllia corals.

[Kayman]

Is it possible brook would have stayed dormant for so long?  Or could it have come in on a frag plug that was dipped? Her right eye is all hazy as well I'm noticing and bulging out a little. 

 

It could be the frogspawn but she doesn't really interact with it besides maybe bumping into them now a bit along with bumping into the rockwork. The only coral I've seen her interact with in the last month is the duncan and mushroom corals.

[Kayman]

In the first one you can see her right eye is pretty cloudy. 

 

[LazyFish]

The eroded places almost look like hole in the head or mechanical injury or even burned but idk with that eye... any new coral additions could be stinging her? She could be blundering into them if her vision is impaired.

[Humblefish]

The cloudy eye suggests a bacterial infection, possibly caused by a coral sting or something else. Watch & see where she sleeps tonight. Is she within range of a LPS sweeper?

 

For the cloudy eye, best treatment is Erythromycin. But that would need to be administered in a QT as the medication is not reef safe.

[Kayman]

14 hours ago, LazyFish said:

The eroded places almost look like hole in the head or mechanical injury or even burned but idk with that eye... any new coral additions could be stinging her? She could be blundering into them if her vision is impaired.

You're right some of the spots do kind of look like early hole in the head hmm. Nope nothing new besides a forest fire frag but she never goes up near that part of the tank.

10 hours ago, Humblefish said:

The cloudy eye suggests a bacterial infection, possibly caused by a coral sting or something else. Watch & see where she sleeps tonight. Is she within range of a LPS sweeper?

 

For the cloudy eye, best treatment is Erythromycin. But that would need to be administered in a QT as the medication is not reef safe.

She normally sleeps in her cave next to a mushroom coral but since the fw dip she's been sleeping at the top of the water near the powerhead. Before all of this started she slept in the back of the tank behind a rock but only near more mushrooms and little kenya trees. So I don't think she's been stung to bad by any LPS.

 

I do plan on getting her into a QT either today or tomorrow so I'll look into that stuff. Thanks

[Kayman]

Here is her this morning. Her skin looks a bit better but I see something black just behind her right gill, the side she seems to be leaning into. I would say the black thing is about 2mm. She is out and swimming more than she has in a month so not sure if this is progress or not as it's not exactly healthy swimming. Her gill did get caught in the net a little during the fw dip could that explain her swimming sideways?

 

Still no interest in food either. Honestly I'm amazed she is still alive with how little she has eaten.

 

 

 

[A.m.P]

I'm not sure what to say, the last few photos have all looked like a possible (relapse?) of brook because of how thick and white her mucus coat is, it also looks like subsequent bacterial infections have really taken-hold, I imagine the holes could be from malnutrition since she hasn't been eating...

 

Way out of my depth here, I hope the QT allows you to really get treatments going.

 

If you suspect Brook, which I think we all might at this juncture, you should do a ruby reef rally or similar dip BEFORE adding her to the QT tank for treatment with antibiotics.

That way you have the best possible shot of putting her into a disease-free environment.

 

However the display tank remains a possible issue and a bit of a hurdle for the same reasons covered earlier...

[Kayman]

Yeah I know there probably isn't a whole lot new to say, I'm kinda of just updating as her conditions change. The one issue I have with brook is everything I have read about it makes it seem like it kills quickly and I can't really find much info on how long it could remain dormant in fish.

 

I do plan on running her through a dip before QT as of now was going to use safety stop and then in QT will treat for the bacterial infection. 

 

I really do appreciate all the input from everyone!

[Humblefish]

34 minutes ago, Amphrites said:

I'm not sure what to say, the last few photos have all looked like a possible (relapse?) of brook because of how thick and white her mucus coat is, it also looks like subsequent bacterial infections have really taken-hold, I imagine the holes could be from malnutrition since she hasn't been eating...

 

Way out of my depth here, I hope the QT allows you to really get treatments going.

 

If you suspect Brook, which I think we all might at this juncture, you should do a ruby reef rally or similar dip BEFORE adding her to the QT tank for treatment with antibiotics.

That way you have the best possible shot of putting her into a disease-free environment.

 

However the display tank remains a possible issue and a bit of a hurdle for the same reasons covered earlier...

^^ I couldn't agree more. A 90 min Rally bath and then antibiotics in QT would be the route I would take. NFG + metro would be ideal.

[Kayman]

20 minutes ago, Humblefish said:

^^ I couldn't agree more. A 90 min Rally bath and then antibiotics in QT would be the route I would take. NFG + metro would be ideal.

Alright, I'll see if I can find any Rally that I could get by tomorrow to use in place of the safety stop but if not I'll use that. But yeah I'll treat with NFG and metro in QT. Thanks guys! 

[A.m.P]

Don't forget to heavily agitate and aerate the rally bath.

I tend to do mine in Pyrex and just toss a powerhead in it like a fountain XD Probably not the best practice.

[Kayman]

Thanks again guys! Just curious will I be able to use the heater and powerhead again down the line from my QT if I don't use copper? With these meds could I just clean em off and let them dry?

[A.m.P]

Everything in them isn't necessarily a contact-threat, plus it all has a shelf-life so-to-speak, it'll be mostly denatured by the time the QT is over, especially if you end up qt-ing all the fish and running fallow for a bit. But I imagine the dilution would pretty much mean everything would be safe after a quick rinse, frankly you probably wouldn't even run into problems if you forgot to rinse and just tossed things back in (provided it's not copper)

[Kayman]

Alright thanks, I am using an extra heater and possibly a koralia nano that I use for mixing salt sometimes so sounds like I don't need to isolate them as just for the QT tank going forward. Thanks!

[Humblefish]

FWIW; a vinegar soaked paper towel or rag removes most copper residue (and other chemicals.) Unless it got absorbed by rock. In which case, you'd have to use muriatic acid to burn off the outer layer of the rock.

[Kayman]

Awesome, good to know! Thanks!

[Kayman]

So thought I'd give a one week update for her in QT. I couldn't find any of the rally locally in time so when I removed her from the display I did 30min in the Formalin and 45min in the Methylene Blue. After that I did a full 4 dose treatment of Erythromycin. She is currently now in with some Kanaplex, Metroplex and Furan 2.

 

I would say overall her physical condition looks better. She swims in the open, but kind of just in circles and bumping into the glass occasionally. Her skin looks healthier everywhere but her mouth and eyes. Her mouth is all white around it and looks a little deformed and her eyes are a bit hazy at least one of them. She has not eaten anything for a full week in QT and probably a few days at least before going in. I'm honestly amazed she is still alive. The lack of food or whatever illness she has is making her seem pretty out of it and or blind as she doesn't even notice food floating by her.

 

Not sure what the next step meds wise will be for her but if she doesn't eat in the next few days with these new meds I'm not sure it will really matter what I plan. 

 

[A.m.P]

Darn, physical appearance is much better, I hope she starts eating.

[Kayman]

So I think her mouth is just so messed up and that's why she can't eat. I'm not even sure she can close her mouth at this point.

 

They last two days I've actually held onto her and used a syringe to put some mushed up flakes into her mouth but I don't think it's really gone well. Both times after she's sunk to the bottom sideways for a few minutes before going back to being upright on the bottom. If she doesn't eat tomorrow evening I think I'm going to pull the trigger and use some clove oil 😕

 

The last few days she doesn't leave the bottom of the tank and her fins are losing a lot of color now so I'm sure she's just very malnourished at this point and I don't think she will be able to come back from it.

 

Is there any disease that could have messed up her jaw to the point her lower jaw is all off center and she can't close her mouth or could this be an injury that never healed correctly?

 

Thanks again for all the support and help through this!

 

 

[Humblefish]

3 hours ago, Kayman said:

Is there any disease that could have messed up her jaw to the point her lower jaw is all off center and she can't close her mouth or could this be an injury that never healed correctly?

Both Brooklynella and/or a bacterial infection can do that. Because the mouth is so damaged, metronidazole would be the only treatment option for brook at this point. I would mix in one of the sulfa drugs (e.g. API Triple Sulfa, Seachem Sulfaplex) to treat for a possible mouth infection.

 

However, he looks pretty bad so I wouldn't blame you for euthanizing him at this point. 🙁

[Kayman]

Thanks, I'll see if I can find some that I can pick up on my way home from work today but so far looks like I would have to order online so sadly not sure it would arrive in time for it to be effective enough to save her. We will see 😕 she looked really sunken in this morning so not really holding out hope anymore sadly.