Chrysophytes - and now brown algae - JUST PLAIN FUGLY

[SeaFurn]

This whitish wispy algae is back covering my rocks.  Any idea what kind it is and what to do about it?  CUC (snails & hermit) doesn't seem to help. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lovemyreef2015]

It looks to me like you are dealing with Chrysophytes. The best way to deal with it is by reducing the amount of dissolved silicates and other nutrients. 

[A.m.P]

Silicates yes, but ime chrysophytes actually prefer low-nutrient situations.

[SeaFurn]

Silicates from water? Tank is BB. I use RODI to make water (0 TDS). 

 

Nutrients are low but I do feed the corals coral frenzy and phyto regularly. 

 

HELP! 

[Lovemyreef2015]

I can't explain it as well as this site so here is the link. Hope this helps.

 

https://ucmp.berkeley.edu/chromista/chrysophyta.html

[A.m.P]

Could be they're using up amino acids in the coral foods, if your nutrients are low you will probably have to raise them in order to control the outbreak. You'll also need to manually-remove some in all likelyhood, Peroxide melts chrysophytes quite well but I wouldn't dose the tank with low nutrient-levels since it likely can't handle the reduction in diversity. You could remove one rock at a time and do a dilute-peroxide application and rinse with tank-water and/or scrub before reintroducing it, clean everything up slowly over the course of a few weeks.

[SeaFurn]

Update: Since the last post I tried scubbing with peroxide and it came back.  It wasn't completely chocking out the corals but I think they are not thriving because of it. 

So I just scrubbed the rocks again this past weekend and it seems that some still remains even after scrubbing - maybe because I didn't use peroxide this time. 

I've ordered a sliicate test kit and will check the levels when I get that. 

 

I've read of others having some success eliminating it by running GFO for a period of time but then had to deal with cyano.  I'd rather deal with cyano than this but running GFO in a 2.5 gallon tank that practically has no phosphates in the first place seems a little silly.  I'm still trying to amp up the nutrients in the tank but it's tricky not overdoing it.

I've also read of some success with Flux Rx but I'm a little skeptical.  Any thoughts on trying this?

 

I swear I had this in my 45 for a very short period of time and didn't know what it was but it quickly went away on it's own.  

Anyone had any success beating chrysophytes?   

[A.m.P]

They came and went as part of a cycle in my own tank, dosing Peroxide seemed to totally wipe them out, but it opened the door for dinos =/

[SeaFurn]

49 minutes ago, Amphrites said:

They came and went as part of a cycle in my own tank, dosing Peroxide seemed to totally wipe them out, but it opened the door for dinos =/

Oh geez...definitely don't want to open that door!  😧

[A.m.P]

It was my own fault, I had 0 P04 and 0 N03.

[SeaFurn]

Peroxide helped again for a minute. It’s back though. 

 

@mcarroll - any thoughts on this? 

 

[A.m.P]

Sounds like it might be time to simply get and keep nutrients up, keep on manual-removal without the peroxide, maybe add in some bottled bacteria like microbacter and wait it out. You might be able to find some CUC who don't hate snacking on the smaller sprouts, tbh allot of people have chrysophytes come and go in their tanks without even realizing it.

[SeaFurn]

19 minutes ago, Amphrites said:

Sounds like it might be time to simply get and keep nutrients up, keep on manual-removal without the peroxide, maybe add in some bottled bacteria like microbacter and wait it out. You might be able to find some CUC who don't hate snacking on the smaller sprouts, tbh allot of people have chrysophytes come and go in their tanks without even realizing it.

I have been dosing MB7 to the tank every other day. 

 

I hear you on the nutrients. I guess just keeping increase the coral feeding frequency and testing until I get decent nitrate and phosphate readings?  Should reduce the water change frequency/volume some too? If so,  I will need to keep my eye on all the other parameters a little closer.

 

I wonder if a trochus snail would eat it? I had one of those in my reef bowl and that thing was a machine! 

[A.m.P]

I'm afraid I'm not much help on any of those fronts lol, sorry. I had to dose to get my nutrients back up and my cuc at the time was tiny. I don't think you'll need to reduce waterchanges but I only do 10% a week with one 20% at the end of the month after I ended up with Dino's anyway.

[mcarroll]

Any chance @reeferfoxx is listening?  Chrysophytes was somewhat of a specialty.  😉

 

I have to be honest though, this doesn't look anything like Chrysophytes I've seen before....they're ususally green and goopy-snotty looking -- like a bad cold.  Gross.

 

Can you put a sample under a microscope?  Even a $12 toy microscope will work for this.

 

This closeup matches the color of what I've seen (and is probably taken through a toy scope from the looks):

This image is the closest I could find to what I had:

The blue light in that photo is killing the green color, so maybe look at yours under plain daylight and see if it matches that snotty green color at all?

 

On 11/25/2019 at 3:13 PM, SeaFurn said:

Silicates from water? Tank is BB. I use RODI to make water (0 TDS). 

 

Nutrients are low but I do feed the corals coral frenzy and phyto regularly. 

 

HELP! 

Have you been testing for the Big 5?  (ca, alk, mg, no3, po4)

 

What are they testing currently?

 

On 11/25/2019 at 6:10 PM, Lovemyreef2015 said:

I can't explain it as well as this site so here is the link. Hope this helps.

 

https://ucmp.berkeley.edu/chromista/chrysophyta.html

I wish they had some references on that page.....never heard lots of those details before, so I wonder if they are more applicable to freshwater chrysophytes?  (not sure tho....there really isn't a lot out there on chrysophytes...or there wasn't back when my tank "came down with" them a few years back.)

 

In my tank it was caused by A) a total lack of cleanup crew and B) negligence in letting the tank get up to 1.031 s.g. from two-part dosing.  (i.e. Sodium Chloride accumulation due to lack of water changes.)

 

Fixing salinity, jacking up nutrient levels and plentiful manual removal (almost daily or more) were required in my case.  It's possible that UV or a micron filter could have helped, but I didn't try them.  (Not on anyone's radar at the time.)

 

Strangely, my LFS had closed recently at the time so I didn't have any access to new cleanup crew.  I'm sure it would have helped to have a good cleanup crew...probably would have saved me a ton of siphoning.

 

Read on though....that's far from conclusive for you.  😉

 

On 12/23/2019 at 10:16 PM, SeaFurn said:

Update: Since the last post I tried scubbing with peroxide and it came back.  It wasn't completely chocking out the corals but I think they are not thriving because of it. 

So I just scrubbed the rocks again this past weekend and it seems that some still remains even after scrubbing - maybe because I didn't use peroxide this time. 

I've ordered a sliicate test kit and will check the levels when I get that. 

 

I've read of others having some success eliminating it by running GFO for a period of time but then had to deal with cyano.  I'd rather deal with cyano than this but running GFO in a 2.5 gallon tank that practically has no phosphates in the first place seems a little silly.  I'm still trying to amp up the nutrients in the tank but it's tricky not overdoing it.

I've also read of some success with Flux Rx but I'm a little skeptical.  Any thoughts on trying this?

 

I swear I had this in my 45 for a very short period of time and didn't know what it was but it quickly went away on it's own.  

Anyone had any success beating chrysophytes?   

Do you have a cleanup crew?

 

What is in it now, specifically?

 

20 hours ago, SeaFurn said:

I have been dosing MB7 to the tank every other day. 

 

I hear you on the nutrients. I guess just keeping increase the coral feeding frequency and testing until I get decent nitrate and phosphate readings?  Should reduce the water change frequency/volume some too? If so,  I will need to keep my eye on all the other parameters a little closer.

 

I wonder if a trochus snail would eat it? I had one of those in my reef bowl and that thing was a machine! 

Feeding and Nutrients

If you have fish, feed them well, but do not overfeed them.

 

Stop all other types of feeding at least for the time being until this gets sorted out.

 

We need some test results for NO3 and PO4 before I can really suggest anything more specific.

 

Filtration

How have you been running the tank's cleaning?  What filters, media, etc?

 

Cleanup Crew

Trochus, Turbo, Astrea, Cerith, Nerites should all be good herbivores.

 

You (should) need far fewer scavengers than herbivores, but a small number can be helpful:  consider a few hermits or nassarius snails.

 

[SeaFurn]

On 1/7/2020 at 7:13 PM, mcarroll said:

Any chance @reeferfoxx is listening?  Chrysophytes was somewhat of a specialty.  😉

 

I have to be honest though, this doesn't look anything like Chrysophytes I've seen before....they're ususally green and goopy-snotty looking -- like a bad cold.  Gross.

 

Can you put a sample under a microscope?  Even a $12 toy microscope will work for this.

 

This closeup matches the color of what I've seen (and is probably taken through a toy scope from the looks):

This image is the closest I could find to what I had:

The blue light in that photo is killing the green color, so maybe look at yours under plain daylight and see if it matches that snotty green color at all?

 

Have you been testing for the Big 5?  (ca, alk, mg, no3, po4)

 

What are they testing currently?

 

I wish they had some references on that page.....never heard lots of those details before, so I wonder if they are more applicable to freshwater chrysophytes?  (not sure tho....there really isn't a lot out there on chrysophytes...or there wasn't back when my tank "came down with" them a few years back.)

 

In my tank it was caused by A) a total lack of cleanup crew and B) negligence in letting the tank get up to 1.031 s.g. from two-part dosing.  (i.e. Sodium Chloride accumulation due to lack of water changes.)

 

Fixing salinity, jacking up nutrient levels and plentiful manual removal (almost daily or more) were required in my case.  It's possible that UV or a micron filter could have helped, but I didn't try them.  (Not on anyone's radar at the time.)

 

Strangely, my LFS had closed recently at the time so I didn't have any access to new cleanup crew.  I'm sure it would have helped to have a good cleanup crew...probably would have saved me a ton of siphoning.

 

Read on though....that's far from conclusive for you.  😉

 

Do you have a cleanup crew?

 

What is in it now, specifically?

 

Feeding and Nutrients

If you have fish, feed them well, but do not overfeed them.

 

Stop all other types of feeding at least for the time being until this gets sorted out.

 

We need some test results for NO3 and PO4 before I can really suggest anything more specific.

 

Filtration

How have you been running the tank's cleaning?  What filters, media, etc?

 

Cleanup Crew

Trochus, Turbo, Astrea, Cerith, Nerites should all be good herbivores.

 

You (should) need far fewer scavengers than herbivores, but a small number can be helpful:  consider a few hermits or nassarius snails.

 

Sorry for the delay responding.  Things were not looking good by the end of last week.  You can see from the picture below that rocks were covered again and my pocilliporos (on the rock and frags on the bottom) suddenly RTN'd.  All the other corals looked ok existing with the algae surrounding them. 

 

 

 

So I tested the parameters.  (salifert)  I do test the big 5 - usually every week with the tank being so small. 

Nitrate - 0  (typical)

Phosphate - undetectable with my eye  (typical)

Alk - 6.85    (typical range 7 - 7.85)

CA - 395      (typical range 390 - 400)

MG 1440     (typical range 1320 - 1395)

Salinity - 1.026   (typical and steady)

Temp - 77.8   (typical and steady - use a temperature controller)

 

Your other questions:

so maybe look at yours under plain daylight and see if it matches that snotty green color at all?    I didn't have a chance to get a microscope yet but here's a picture in normal lighting and you can see they are slightly green. 

 

 

 

Do you have a cleanup crew?  Yes, a blue leg hermit, 3 florida ceriths, several dwarf ceriths.  They seemed to keep up with the task until this stuff got overwhelming....or they just don't graze on it. 

 

 

Feeding and Nutrients

If you have fish, feed them well, but do not overfeed them.  - I have one shark nose goby.  I feed him one small mysis shrimp a day.  It fills his belly.

 

How have you been running the tank's cleaning?  Water changes bi-weekly - usually 32oz.  Siphon detritus from the bottom

What filters, media, etc?  - Use a Tidal 55 filter with floss and carbon.  I've got flow set so there's good turnover.  Change the floss with water changes, carbon monthly.

 

So with the rocks being the way they were this weekend, I took them out and scrubbed them again - this time with peroxide again.  I also moved everything to a bigger tank (6 gallons) so that it makes it a little easer to get the rocks in and out if I'm going to have to be doing these cleanings frequently.  Plus, it may add some stability to the parameters although I don't think that's been as big a factor. 

 

Latest pic below.  I think I've got a bacterial bloom going on in this tank now - water is cloudy and not clearing up although that's not really apparent from the picture below.  Corals are still pissed from the cleaning (i'm sure I inadvertantly got peroxide on them) and haven't recovered - snotting all over the tank. And there still seems to be some white fuzz on the rocks that didn't come completely off. I checked the parameters this morning and things are in check so I guess I'll just have to wait this out. 

 

 

 

And today is my 3 year anniversary joining Nano-Reef - yay!

[SeaFurn]

I guess am a little concerned with all the sliming that some of the corals (not sure which although it seems like ricordia slime) seem to be doing.....any adivice on that?

[mcarroll]

2 minutes ago, SeaFurn said:

Nitrate - 0  (typical)

Phosphate - undetectable with my eye  (typical)

Stop encouraging this -- go the other way and healthy algae like green hair and coralline algae should be able to grow and replace this cr*p.

 

Since you have an almost-invisible fish population I'd suggest dosing nitrates and phosphates and then test and dose just like you would for alkalinity to assure that the tank keeps at least minimal levels:

NO3:   5-10 ppm at least

PO4:   0.10 ppm at least

 

Dose phosphates first if there's any question as to the order.  (Spiking nitrates when there are no phosphates will cause even more coral problems.)

 

I would suggest considering this urgrent at this point.  Go to a LFS and buy Seachem Flourish Nitrogen and Flourish Phosphorous if possible.....if nobody carries it, then order it but that's going to be very slow.  It would be nice if you could dose phosphates today/tonight.

 

3 minutes ago, SeaFurn said:

Yes, a blue leg hermit, 3 florida ceriths, several dwarf ceriths.  They seemed to keep up with the task until this stuff got overwhelming....or they just don't graze on it. 

That's almost no cleanup crew at all, so no surprise this stuff was able to take over.

3 minutes ago, SeaFurn said:

So with the rocks being the way they were this weekend, I took them out and scrubbed them again - this time with peroxide again. 

No more treatments outside the tank, and no more peroxide.  That's resetting your rock more or less back to "dead" status every time you do it.   NOT the direction you want to be taking things.

 

You will have to get into the tank and scrub/siphon out this stuff as often as possible -- especially from around your corals.  Use a baby toothbrush if you don't already have something safe and detail oriented to scrub with.

 

In my experience, this algae eats corals....I lost big sections of my Hydnophora every time I took a scrub break when I had this stuff blooming.

 

I would add a pack of larger herbivores like Astrea, Trochus and/or Turbo snails...3 or 4 would be OK to get you started....might be all you need, but you'll play it by ear.  Watch how (and if) the algae re-grows.  If it does regrow, then you need clean everything up against and then add another 1-2 large snails.  Repeat as needed until the areas you clean stay clean.  Then you know you have enough snails.

[mcarroll]

If you have or can get some GFO, that's something else to consider.   If you run it for <24 hours, supposedly it will mostly remove silicates, which chrysophytes are supposed to have a need for.  Use your judgement on whether to try this or not.

[SeaFurn]

Went looking for nitrogen and phosphate today. No luck. Going to have to order it.

I also checked the pH today. I know it's not a parameter to chase but was curious what it was at since everything is so pissed off.  It was 8.2.

 

 

[Tamberav]

7 hours ago, SeaFurn said:

Sorry for the delay responding.  Things were not looking good by the end of last week.  You can see from the picture below that rocks were covered again and my pocilliporos (on the rock and frags on the bottom) suddenly RTN'd.  All the other corals looked ok existing with the algae surrounding them. 

 

 

 

So I tested the parameters.  (salifert)  I do test the big 5 - usually every week with the tank being so small. 

Nitrate - 0  (typical)

Phosphate - undetectable with my eye  (typical)

Alk - 6.85    (typical range 7 - 7.85)

CA - 395      (typical range 390 - 400)

MG 1440     (typical range 1320 - 1395)

Salinity - 1.026   (typical and steady)

Temp - 77.8   (typical and steady - use a temperature controller)

 

Your other questions:

so maybe look at yours under plain daylight and see if it matches that snotty green color at all?    I didn't have a chance to get a microscope yet but here's a picture in normal lighting and you can see they are slightly green. 

 

 

 

Do you have a cleanup crew?  Yes, a blue leg hermit, 3 florida ceriths, several dwarf ceriths.  They seemed to keep up with the task until this stuff got overwhelming....or they just don't graze on it. 

 

 

Feeding and Nutrients

If you have fish, feed them well, but do not overfeed them.  - I have one shark nose goby.  I feed him one small mysis shrimp a day.  It fills his belly.

 

How have you been running the tank's cleaning?  Water changes bi-weekly - usually 32oz.  Siphon detritus from the bottom

What filters, media, etc?  - Use a Tidal 55 filter with floss and carbon.  I've got flow set so there's good turnover.  Change the floss with water changes, carbon monthly.

 

So with the rocks being the way they were this weekend, I took them out and scrubbed them again - this time with peroxide again.  I also moved everything to a bigger tank (6 gallons) so that it makes it a little easer to get the rocks in and out if I'm going to have to be doing these cleanings frequently.  Plus, it may add some stability to the parameters although I don't think that's been as big a factor. 

 

Latest pic below.  I think I've got a bacterial bloom going on in this tank now - water is cloudy and not clearing up although that's not really apparent from the picture below.  Corals are still pissed from the cleaning (i'm sure I inadvertantly got peroxide on them) and haven't recovered - snotting all over the tank. And there still seems to be some white fuzz on the rocks that didn't come completely off. I checked the parameters this morning and things are in check so I guess I'll just have to wait this out. 

 

 

 

And today is my 3 year anniversary joining Nano-Reef - yay!

The light coloration and big polyp extension on those sps tells me your corals are hungry. 

 

 

[EfrainChicagoDeepdish]

SeaFurn.  If the solution suggested is to raise NO3 and PO4, could you do a water change with your rock flower tank?  Is the water dirtier in that tank?  

[SeaFurn]

53 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

The light coloration and big polyp extension on those sps tells me your corals are hungry. 

 

 

Never thought about it that way but I suppose your right considering how ULN my tank always tests. In general, how often should I be feeding the corals? Broadcast feed or target. Such a newb question but I guess I need to rethink everything I’m doing. 

[SeaFurn]

49 minutes ago, EfrainChicagoDeepdish said:

SeaFurn.  If the solution suggested is to raise NO3 and PO4, could you do a water change with your rock flower tank?  Is the water dirtier in that tank?  

Wow - that’s possibly a good idea and one that’s been right there in front of my face! I haven’t tested that tank in awhile but the palys and euphyllia I use as barometer corals for the tank are doing awesome! 

[A.m.P]

Seachem Nitrate and Phosphate are about $5 a piece and they have a calculator on their website to allow you to hit exact numbers, a different solution as plenty of folks end up having to dose one or the other eventually.