Chrysophytes - and now brown algae - JUST PLAIN FUGLY

[SeaFurn]

Tested nitrates last night and they are now back down to less than 1.  There was some pink color evident so I know ii wasn't 0.  

I'm noticing a lot bubbles on top of the water - would that be a sign of elevated phosphates? 

As promised - here's how it looks - UGLY.   Haven't removed the forest fire yet...

 

 

 

 

 

[jservedio]

Still looks like Chrysophytes, but with some Cyanobacteria mixed in. The fact that you've got cyano is a good sign that something is starting to compete with the chrysophtes - they are definitely not gone yet though. Keep those nutrients up and start manually removing some again to  see if the cyano takes over the cleared off areas.

[SeaFurn]

I just looked at the forest fire using a pretty strong magnifying glass and I don't think it's dead.  I think it's bleached and in certain parts it's turned brown. (Front right in FTS picture above for reference.  I gently brushed it with a soft brush and now it looks like it's sliming a bit - under the magnifying glass.  I'm not gonna pull it just yet.  

[mcarroll]

On 2/11/2020 at 7:17 PM, SeaFurn said:

BUT - I'm using a Salifert kit, and if you know that kit, you know it's impossible to tell if there's any color evident at all - even comparing the tested water to regular water in the same kind of container sitting right next to each other.

If it's that imperceptible you can just call it zero and be safe in your call.

 

When you dose phosphates, dose up to the first readable line on the test kit you have.  (Maybe 0.25 ppm?) 

 

Once you dose, test again in around 30 minutes to see what you get. 

 

It should be really close to the level you targeted.

But it's also possible for the PO4 to get sucked down by all the critters that have been starving for it, in particular algae.   It can happen fast too!

 

So, if you test in 30 min. and see levels less than what you targeted (or even zero) then dose again immediately to get levels back to your target level.  retest again in 30 min.....unlikley to move that quickly a second time, but your task remains -- keep phosphates elevated (0.25 ppm is fine) until you get GREEN ALGAE growing.

 

👍

On 2/11/2020 at 7:17 PM, SeaFurn said:

So what's the best plan to deal with the algae.  The CUC is not gonna hack it.  I'd need 15-20 snails in there to make a dent in it.

Still hand-pulling + CUC.   DON'T FORGET THE HAND PULLING PART THO!   

 

Need up to two Turbo snails per gallon, or equivalent if you're using smaller snails.

 

Add 3-4, wait a week or so to assess.....add 3-4 more if needed....assess again....etc.

 

 

[jservedio]

46 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Need up to two Turbo snails per gallon, or equivalent if you're using smaller snails.

 

Add 3-4, wait a week or so to assess.....add 3-4 more if needed....assess again....etc.

I 100% agree with hand-pulling and siphoning out everything that is possible, but I disagree with the number of turbo snails - 5 turbo snails in a 2.5g tank is a lot of really big snails. IME, all snails I've had (turbo, trochus, margarita, astrea, and cerith) die when eating nothing but chysophytes or starve to death because they won't eat the chrysophytes. Crabs were the only thing that made it through mine unscathed because they picked all the detritus that collected in the mess.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't even put a single turbo into a 2.5g tank because they get enormous - mine is almost the size of my fist and dwarfs my small magfloat - it couldn't fit between the glass and my scape in my old 2g pico. They are just too big to effectively clean a small pico.

 

For me, I wouldn't add any snails until I had visible green popping up on the glass and rocks and just focus on keeping my nutrients high enough to get some green algae or cyano competing while removing as much as I could by hand.

[xthunt]

I'd put in some 'real' snails, ceriths never did much for me and I could never tell what they did. Astraea, Trochus, and Turbo are good options (astreae being the least effective of the three, ime). If it were me I'd start with something like 1-2 trochus and 1 astraea, or 1 smaller Mexican turbo and 1 trochus or astraea. Something like that. I've had rocks look like that before and the snails I mentioned always fixed it with no more effort than buying them and putting them in. 

[SeaFurn]

Latest tests results:

1.026

alk 8.15   

nitrates 10   

ca 420   

mg  1425

phos 0

 

The bubble gum digitata was looking a little rough today - and the psamacora looks like it's got some tissue receding right in the lower front (not in an area that's shaded).  Zoas still good except for that one damn frag of butt kissers.  I've heard they are really really finicky.  Going on over a month of being closed for business.  The frogspawn and hammer looked good and full.   Ricorida all good. 

 

7 hours ago, mcarroll said:

If it's that imperceptible you can just call it zero and be safe in your call.

 

When you dose phosphates, dose up to the first readable line on the test kit you have.  (Maybe 0.25 ppm?) 

Have you ever seen the gradient scale on the Salifert Phospahte test?  I should post a pic of it if not.  The reading would literally have to be 1ppm (no, I didn't forget the decimal before the 1) before I'd be able to tell what the reading was.   So I'm not sure I'm going to be able to execute your suggestion with this kit - as much as I'd like to because it makes sense. 

 

8 hours ago, mcarroll said:

DON'T FORGET THE HAND PULLING PART THO!   

Yeah, gonna have to get in there tomorow and do this - or take the rocks out and scrub them off.  It's getting really thick in some areas.  The really red algae is taking over in some spots too.  Luckily I can blow alot of that off with the baster and it gets sucked up into the filter. 

 

7 hours ago, jservedio said:

For me, I wouldn't add any snails until I had visible green popping up on the glass and rocks and just focus on keeping my nutrients high enough to get some green algae or cyano competing while removing as much as I could by hand.

Well, I have some snails and hermits coming from Reefcleaners on Friday.  They were restocked with trochus so I picked up a few of them along with some others.  They are the best type I've ever had.  I'll add a couple in and see how it goes. I'll keep the rest in my other tank and can move them over as needed.  I feel the brown algae and cyano is going to come right back as soon as I scrub the rocks so I'm not worried there won't be any work for them come Friday.

 

 

5 hours ago, xthunt said:

If it were me I'd start with something like 1-2 trochus

Exactly what I plan to do.  Trochus are workhorses in my experience. 

[SeaFurn]

@mcarroll @jservedio - if you reply to the posts above could you reply back to my regular thread.  Going to try to keep all the history back there now.   

Link is here: 

 

[mcarroll]

1 hour ago, jservedio said:

I disagree with the number of turbo snails - 5 turbo snails in a 2.5g tank is a lot of really big snails.

I did say "or equivalent if you're using smaller snails" so just choose what snails you like!  😊 

 

Saying "2 Turbo's per gallon" gives someone an idea of the amount of "snail power" they may need though. 

 

Most folks seems to underestimate what it can take to get control of an algae bloom.  Yes, it can take up to two Turbo Snails per gallon.

 

That doesn't amount to an instruction for anyone to put 2 Turbo's Per Gallon into their tank though.  It stated as part of an overall scheme that was also presented so focus and have a re-cap.   Answering the question of "what else is there to do about algae?"...

3 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Still hand-pulling + CUC.   DON'T FORGET THE HAND PULLING PART THO!   

 

Need up to two Turbo snails per gallon, or equivalent if you're using smaller snails.

 

Add 3-4, wait a week or so to assess.....add 3-4 more if needed....assess again....etc.

 

Remember: the end result is what we're looking for. 

 

That is to say:  Algae Control is what you're looking for.  Not a particular number or kind of snail.

 

Bigger snails are capable of taking bigger bites though....so having "some" preference for large snails in your mix does make sense....and Turbo snails are the go-to if you have a big problem IMO.   But not every problem is the same and there's no reason not to pick snails you like.  👍

 

 

@SeaFurn, the only thing we expect the snails to do in your case is to keep areas clean that we first clean for them. 

 

Any stands of algae that are visible to a significant degree will not be consumed by a snail -- too big for them.  Their mouth is tiny and they can't chew!! 😱 (How Snails Eat)

 

Anyway, removing all of the current growth is your job.  👍   

 

You should be able to work through it in phases the way I described earlier, you just can't take days off in-between.  You do have to hit it pretty much daily. 

 

IMO you'll have control within 1 or 2 additions of snails if you do it right.  (ie. Fix the original problem.  Hand pull the excess.  Add snails slowly, until you don't need more.)

 

If you DO end up going for bigger snails (eg turbo, trochus, etc) then only add 1-2 at a time unless they are VERY small specimens.  If you go for smaller snails like Ceriths, you'll have to increase the numbers at least proportionately....so maybe add 4 to 8 at a time of a snail like that.

 

BTW...

 

Whether 5 is too many snails for this tank depends more on the algae supply and less on tank size.   

 

In fact, we almost always get into trouble trying to index cleanup crew size with tank size....just doesn't work out that way....has to be according to food source.  I.e. what you see grow back after cleaning and adding a few snails.

 

So just to be clear:  2 per gallon is a potential level based on what you see happening in the tank.  It is not a goal that necessarily needs to be achieved. 

 

Unfortunately there is no magic number of snails (or snails per gallon) only the right number that can keep your tank's algae in check. 

 

For my 125 Gallon tank, that was about 10 Turbos...mostly larger specimens though, around golf ball size or larger.  A lot of snail power, but far short of the 2 Turbos per gallon idea.  😉