KH not dropping

[Willzs]

Clownfish

So my tank has been setup since August after my upgrade. The problem I'm having is with my KH being too high. I'm trying to get it to drop to 8dKh but it seems to have stagnated. I don't dose anything for KH but dose 5ml of Aquaforest 1+ and 3+ per day. I'm also dosing Aquaforest energy food and build every other day. I've attached my dosing results.

Any ideas?

[mitten_reef]

Do you have anything that will use up the carbonate in the tank at this time?  That would be coralline algae or any stony corals, typically.  If you have no corals uptake, you should not be dosing anything.  Not sure why you needed to continue the 1+ (Ca) and 3+ (Mg) though, that's weird.   

 

water change with freshly-mixed, lower-dKH saltwater will be the fastest way to drop the dKH (this typically means a different salt brand/product than what you're using now).  This will have an impact on the more sensitive corals if you drop dKH too quickly too, keep that in mind.    

[jservedio]

What does your fresh salt water mix up to? That's likely the answer right there. If you want to run your alkalinity at 8dkh, you should look for a salt that mixes up right around 8dkh.

[Willzs]

4 minutes ago, mitten_reef said:

Do you have anything that will use up the carbonate in the tank at this time?  That would be coralline algae or any stony corals, typically.  If you have no corals uptake, you should not be dosing anything.  Not sure why you needed to continue the 1+ (Ca) and 3+ (Mg) though, that's weird.   

 

water change with freshly-mixed, lower-dKH saltwater will be the fastest way to drop the dKH (this typically means a different salt brand/product than what you're using now).  This will have an impact on the more sensitive corals if you drop dKH too quickly too, keep that in mind.    

Yes I have quite a few stoney corals but they only seem to be using the Ca and Mg at the moment.

 

My salt is the Aquaforest one so mixes around 8dkh. I'm not wanting the drop to be sudden just a bit confused as to why there seems to be no drop? KH in tanks I've had before has always steadily dropped.

[mitten_reef]

4 minutes ago, Willzs said:

Yes I have quite a few stoney corals but they only seem to be using the Ca and Mg at the moment.

 

My salt is the Aquaforest one so mixes around 8dkh. I'm not wanting the drop to be sudden just a bit confused as to why there seems to be no drop? KH in tanks I've had before has always steadily dropped.

If the salt mixed to 8 dKH, but you're reading in 11-14, there's something else going on there.  Could it be the test kit providing false readings?  are all your test kits current (not expired)?  

[jservedio]

2 minutes ago, Willzs said:

Yes I have quite a few stoney corals but they only seem to be using the Ca and Mg at the moment.

 

My salt is the Aquaforest one so mixes around 8dkh. I'm not wanting the drop to be sudden just a bit confused as to why there seems to be no drop? KH in tanks I've had before has always steadily dropped.

If your Alkalinity was up at 14dkh, but your salt only mixes up to 8dkh, just stop dosing anything and keep changing your water and it'll go down. Before you dose anything, you should test to see exactly how much you should dose.

 

You had a big spike in alkalinity up to 14dkh, so your stony corals are probably pissed and not growing, which is why you may not see your alkalinity drop.

[Willzs]

3 minutes ago, jservedio said:

If your Alkalinity was up at 14dkh, but your salt only mixes up to 8dkh, just stop dosing anything and keep changing your water and it'll go down. Before you dose anything, you should test to see exactly how much you should dose.

 

You had a big spike in alkalinity up to 14dkh, so your stony corals are probably pissed and not growing, which is why you may not see your alkalinity drop.

I did test for a few weeks before I started dosing but ended up with the spike to 14dkh, that's why I stopped with the kh dosing. It was steadily going down but is just strange that it has now stopped. 

 

6 minutes ago, mitten_reef said:

If the salt mixed to 8 dKH, but you're reading in 11-14, there's something else going on there.  Could it be the test kit providing false readings?  are all your test kits current (not expired)?  

Test kits are all in date, they're the Salifert ones.

[mitten_reef]

3 minutes ago, jservedio said:

If your Alkalinity was up at 14dkh, but your salt only mixes up to 8dkh, just stop dosing anything and keep changing your water and it'll go down. Before you dose anything, you should test to see exactly how much you should dose.

 

You had a big spike in alkalinity up to 14dkh, so your stony corals are probably pissed and not growing, which is why you may not see your alkalinity drop.

^ that's a very good point as well.  How did we get all the way to 14 to begin with?  was it slowly built-up from overdosing?    

[Willzs]

3 minutes ago, mitten_reef said:

^ that's a very good point as well.  How did we get all the way to 14 to begin with?  was it slowly built-up from overdosing?    

Yea, unfortunately with my job I have to go away a lot so it crept up then. 

[jservedio]

You just need to stop dosing everything and keep changing water until your parameters are very close to what your water mixes up to. Once you are there, start testing for Ca, Alk, and Mg every single day for a week and see how far parameters drop. If they haven't very significantly changed, you don't need to dose. Even if they changed a decent amount, is it something that increased water changes can keep up with? If so, you should be doing that instead of dosing.

 

If they changed pretty significantly, then you can figure out exactly what you need to dose for your tank volume to bring your parameters back up to fresh salt water level. The concentrations of the Alk/Ca/Mg are always listed on the bottle and you should have a pretty good estimation of your total water volume. Divide those numbers by 7 and there is your daily dose.

 

When you first start dosing, you should be testing every single day and dosing by hand. If you can't test that particular day, don't dose anything. Once everything is dialed in for a few weeks, you can cut back testing. If you start dosing, but aren't testing daily, it's just a recipe for disaster.

[Willzs]

5 minutes ago, jservedio said:

You just need to stop dosing everything and keep changing water until your parameters are very close to what your water mixes up to. Once you are there, start testing for Ca, Alk, and Mg every single day for a week and see how far parameters drop. If they haven't very significantly changed, you don't need to dose. Even if they changed a decent amount, is it something that increased water changes can keep up with? If so, you should be doing that instead of dosing.

 

If they changed pretty significantly, then you can figure out exactly what you need to dose for your tank volume to bring your parameters back up to fresh salt water level. The concentrations of the Alk/Ca/Mg are always listed on the bottle and you should have a pretty good estimation of your total water volume. Divide those numbers by 7 and there is your daily dose.

 

When you first start dosing, you should be testing every single day and dosing by hand. If you can't test that particular day, don't dose anything. Once everything is dialed in for a few weeks, you can cut back testing. If you start dosing, but aren't testing daily, it's just a recipe for disaster.

That's how I started, did tests over a couple of weeks and then worked out the amount per day. Just cant work out why the other elements are being used without alk

[mcarroll]

It sounds like instead of dosing based on alkalinity test numbers you may have been dosing based on calcium or magnesium tests.  Hypothetically that's not "wrong" but in a new tank it doesn't make sense.

 

In a new tank, alkalinity is likely to be the only one you see being used in the test numbers mostly because there's so little of it whereas calcium and magnesium's usage would be so slow as to appear invisible because the initial concentration is so much higher.  That would be normal.

 

I would say also that you may need to test your new seawater and make sure of what it's testing to....claims aside, you want to know what's going on in your bucket. 😉

 

Going forward use those levels as your targets, and assuming you're on a standard two-part type system, dose the parts based only on alkalinty tests.  If other numbers are "off" but alkalinity hasn't been used, then it's either testing error or something else besides coral growth is going on.

 

6 minutes ago, Willzs said:

That's how I started, did tests over a couple of weeks and then worked out the amount per day. Just cant work out why the other elements are being used without alk

Unexpected levels in your water change water could explain it.  The important thing is that you know corals aren't causing it (not without alk being used) so dosing should probably not be the answer.

 

Unless you think this can't be the case, I'd test your newly mixed water next time and see what you get.

[Willzs]

20 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

It sounds like instead of dosing based on alkalinity test numbers you may have been dosing based on calcium or magnesium tests.  Hypothetically that's not "wrong" but in a new tank it doesn't make sense.

 

In a new tank, alkalinity is likely to be the only one you see being used in the test numbers mostly because there's so little of it whereas calcium and magnesium's usage would be so slow as to appear invisible because the initial concentration is so much higher.  That would be normal.

 

I would say also that you may need to test your new seawater and make sure of what it's testing to....claims aside, you want to know what's going on in your bucket. 😉

 

Going forward use those levels as your targets, and assuming you're on a standard two-part type system, dose the parts based only on alkalinty tests.  If other numbers are "off" but alkalinity hasn't been used, then it's either testing error or something else besides coral growth is going on.

 

Unexpected levels in your water change water could explain it.  The important thing is that you know corals aren't causing it (not without alk being used) so dosing should probably not be the answer.

 

Unless you think this can't be the case, I'd test your newly mixed water next time and see what you get.

I based the dosing levels on alk as that is what I did years ago when I had a doser. Do you think I should stop all my dosing or leave the Ca and Mg going? It's the Aquaforest 3 part I dose.

[mitten_reef]

49 minutes ago, Willzs said:

I based the dosing levels on alk as that is what I did years ago when I had a doser. Do you think I should stop all my dosing or leave the Ca and Mg going? It's the Aquaforest 3 part I dose.

What I would do:  Stop dosing altogether.  Then do 2-3 small (15-20% volume) waterchanges over the course of next week or two.  Be sure to check the levels in your newly mixed saltwater before the waterchange, if that interests you.   If your salt mixed to levels as claimed, you should be able to get everything back pretty close to normal after the 2-week period without causing a sudden drop.  Oh, and don't forget to check the levels in the tank after the waterchanges as well. 

 

 

[mcarroll]

It's unlikely that either one could go "too low", at least presuming there's nothing strange. 

 

Alk will eventually be consumed by other processes and any water changes, assuming none of that rise was from the salt mix.

 

Seems like you shouldn't have to dose anything for a little while.  Water changes will likely take care of calcium and magnesium, etc.

 

I would be aware of the likely increase in demand for dissolved phosphates (in particular) and other basic nutrients that may result from the increased alkalinity. 

 

If you were doing anything to make your system "low nutrient" you may want to ease up or even stop until alk is back to normal, IMO.

[Willzs]

1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

It's unlikely that either one could go "too low", at least presuming there's nothing strange. 

 

Alk will eventually be consumed by other processes and any water changes, assuming none of that rise was from the salt mix.

 

Seems like you shouldn't have to dose anything for a little while.  Water changes will likely take care of calcium and magnesium, etc.

 

I would be aware of the likely increase in demand for dissolved phosphates (in particular) and other basic nutrients that may result from the increased alkalinity. 

 

If you were doing anything to make your system "low nutrient" you may want to ease up or even stop until alk is back to normal, IMO.

Ok I'll have to give that a go. I dose the Aquaforest build aswell, think it's just calcium carbonate mainly. Should I stop dosing that?

[mcarroll]

6 hours ago, Willzs said:

Ok I'll have to give that a go. I dose the Aquaforest build aswell, think it's just calcium carbonate mainly. Should I stop dosing that?

It's not clear to me from the product description.  I'm guessing like with most things, you don't really need it until you need it.