10 gallon nano reef, no water changes

[caleb.barger1]

Ive been doing some research  and it's interesting about this "no water change" thing. I haven't done a water change in 3 months. It's a 10 gallon tank, but when I was doing them I would get outbreaks of algae even when I'm running chemi pure blue in my HOB filter. But in the last 3 months all corals (GPS, xenia, hammer coral, zoas) have been spreading and getting bigger. Eventually I noticed the hammer starting to slow down and almost look like its receding. I dosed calcium and alkalinity and 2 days later it's looking better than ever with still no water changes, oh also I haven't tested ANY water on this tank EVER. I am definitely going to start testing now that I've started dosing, but it's interesting how my corals and fish look better than ever with no water changes for 3 months in such a small tank. I want to see where my levels are to see if my corals are possibly helping "fight off" the nitrates and phosphates, and I want to see how long I can possibly pull this off. 

 

I'll post my readings for nitrates and phosphates today or tomorrow whenever I can get around to picking up a test kit. Is there anyone that can explain possibly what's going on? Anyone have any tips for no water changes? I'm hoping my gsp and xenia will be the leading reason of me doing so well with no water changes because they have both taken off in growth since they've been in my tank for  4-6 months

 

My Filter media: chemi pure blue, bio balls, filter floss. (Change the filter floss out once a week, sometimes once every one and a half weeks.)

-my tank is about 8 months old.

[EthanPhillyCheesesteak]

3 minutes ago, caleb.barger1 said:

Ive been doing some research  and it's interesting about this "no water change" thing. I haven't done a water change in 3 months. It's a 10 gallon tank, but when I was doing them I would get outbreaks of algae even when I'm running chemi pure blue in my HOB filter. But in the last 3 months all corals (GPS, xenia, hammer coral, zoas) have been spreading and getting bigger. Eventually I noticed the hammer starting to slow down and almost look like its receding. I dosed calcium and alkalinity and 2 days later it's looking better than ever with still no water changes, oh also I haven't tested ANY water on this tank EVER. I am definitely going to start testing now that I've started dosing, but it's interesting how my corals and fish look better than ever with no water changes for 3 months. I want to see where my levels are to see if my corals are possibly helping "fight off" the nitrates and phosphates, and I want to see how long I can possibly pull this off. 

 

I've just now started doing research when I noticed these results for myself... I'll post my readings for nitrates and phosphates today or tomorrow whenever I can get around to picking up a test kit. Is there anyone that can explain possibly what's going on? Anyone have any tips for no water changes? I'm hoping my gsp and xenia will be the leading reason of me doing so well with no water changes for 3 months because they have both taken off in growth since they've been in my tank for  4-6 months

 

My Filter media: chemi pure blue, bio balls, filter floss. (Change the filter floss out once a week, sometimes once every one and a half weeks.)

-my tank is about 8 months old.

You are probably one of the few people who got this lucky, ngl😂. Never tested water and never do what changes, that’s being bold. How did you know what your water was even at when you first started adding your inhabitants? Did you not test before adding?

[Ratvan]

So is this some form of Triton Hybrid method that you're going to attempt?

[caleb.barger1]

58 minutes ago, EthanPhillyCheesesteak said:

You are probably one of the few people who got this lucky, ngl😂. Never tested water and never do what changes, that’s being bold. How did you know what your water was even at when you first started adding your inhabitants? Did you not test before adding?

I added bio-spira to boost the levels and kick everything off, and started with only 2 clowns. Then once I saw the algae BOOM I figured the cycle is going  then when it slowly disappeared I figure the cycle was complete. And slowly started adding corals. I kept up with water changes but eventually they seemed to make algae grow faster! Then I kinda slacked up on maintenance and found the tank started doing better...

[caleb.barger1]

1 hour ago, Ratvan said:

So is this some form of Triton Hybrid method that you're going to attempt?

Not familiar with the method, I'll check it out. But if it means trying to get by without doing waterchanges then yes! My corals are doing outstanding with visible growth. Im definitely eager to test and see what my parameters are.

[A.m.P]

Seabass actually just mentioned something similar a while back, allot of tanks can have temporary growth-spurts and look great for a few months with only top-off, however going longer than that can be dangerous and lead to crashes. Provided your corals are actually uptaking the P04 and N03, you have an export for carbon-based organics (activated carbon and/or protein skimmers), and you're reintroducing trace-minerals back into the tank via something more-complex than traditional two-part (all-for-reef, seachem two-part, Triton, etc.) then you *can* get a fairly-healthy system going without waterchanges.

However, especially at the beginning phases, it will actually require allot of testing and chasing numbers, which is potentially more work than just doing water-changes lol.
That all said, I've done a fair bit of reading but honestly don't have much hands on experience.

Hope it goes well, should be interesting to follow!

[FlytheWMark]

I'll definitely follow this.  Not sure how this will work in the long term, esp with no dosing.  Are you running a skimmer of any sorts? How are trace minerals being replenished?  I'm not sure this is a sound "strategy" or if you've just been lucky so far.  Interested to see what some of the others on this board have to say about this.

[caleb.barger1]

55 minutes ago, FlytheWMark said:

I'll definitely follow this.  Not sure how this will work in the long term, esp with no dosing.  Are you running a skimmer of any sorts? How are trace minerals being replenished?  I'm not sure this is a sound "strategy" or if you've just been lucky so far.  Interested to see what some of the others on this board have to say about this.

I dosed calcium and alk when I noticed the hammer looking bad, when I did he opened right back up. No skimmer either, just replacing filter media and topping off as needed.

[caleb.barger1]

1 hour ago, Amphrites said:

Seabass actually just mentioned something similar a while back, allot of tanks can have temporary growth-spurts and look great for a few months with only top-off, however going longer than that can be dangerous and lead to crashes. Provided your corals are actually uptaking the P04 and N03, you have an export for carbon-based organics (activated carbon and/or protein skimmers), and you're reintroducing trace-minerals back into the tank via something more-complex than traditional two-part (all-for-reef, seachem two-part, Triton, etc.) then you *can* get a fairly-healthy system going without waterchanges.

However, especially at the beginning phases, it will actually require allot of testing and chasing numbers, which is potentially more work than just doing water-changes lol.
That all said, I've done a fair bit of reading but honestly don't have much hands on experience.

Hope it goes well, should be interesting to follow!

Fill me in on p04 and n03. Are these fancy names for nitrates and phosphates?

[EthanPhillyCheesesteak]

1 minute ago, caleb.barger1 said:

Fill me in on p04 and n03. Are these fancy names for nitrates and phosphates?

Yes, that’s exactly what they are😂

[A.m.P]

17 minutes ago, caleb.barger1 said:

Fill me in on p04 and n03. Are these fancy names for nitrates and phosphates?

Ehehe they're the lazier way of typing it out, fewer characters with chemical-formulas XD

[FlytheWMark]

1 hour ago, caleb.barger1 said:

I dosed calcium and alk when I noticed the hammer looking bad, when I did he opened right back up. No skimmer either, just replacing filter media and topping off as needed.

I'm fascinated to hear what some of the pro's on here say about this.  I've heard of some larger tanks that go over a year without water changes but from everything I've read about them they are dosing EVERYTHING and rely a lot on a skimmer.  These are larger volume tanks too, I have a 10 gallon and can't conceive going 3 months without a water change.

[Clown79]

2 hours ago, caleb.barger1 said:

I dosed calcium and alk when I noticed the hammer looking bad, when I did he opened right back up. No skimmer either, just replacing filter media and topping off as needed.

But how do you know how much to dose without testing?

[Clown79]

52 minutes ago, FlytheWMark said:

I'm fascinated to hear what some of the pro's on here say about this.  I've heard of some larger tanks that go over a year without water changes but from everything I've read about them they are dosing EVERYTHING and rely a lot on a skimmer.  These are larger volume tanks too, I have a 10 gallon and can't conceive going 3 months without a water change.

Many use no waterchange method and rely on dosing to replenish what corals use but in order to properly dose, you need to test or else you will end up with fluctuations.

 

I didn't do waterchanges for over a month, I dosed but definitely needed to test alk in order to know how much was being consumed and dosing the right amount to maintain stable numbers

[A.m.P]

I actually just got done leaving my tank without water changes for about two months in prep for the swap over from the atoll to a 20L, went through turbo uglies, accidentally had my calcium drop from 450 to 325 over a week when the clam or another animal decided it was hungry (fixed it fairly quickly with two-part), and had my nitrate and phosphates totally-bottom out requiring me to dose.

Can't say I plan on doing it again any time soon, until a tank is quite-well established, covered in coralline and teeming with large colonies of corals, I just don't think most systems can actually cope long-term. I'm probably wrong in a few dozen different ways however /shrug

[caleb.barger1]

Okay, so my LFS was close so I had to settle with petsmart and they only had nitrate, calcium, and amonia tests... but here's my results.

Nitrates: 80 ppm

Calcium: 440 ppm 

Amonia: 0 ppm 

 

Its odd my nitrates are high, but nothing in my tank seems to be affected by it. I'm guessing I should hop on a water change haha.

[caleb.barger1]

1 hour ago, Clown79 said:

But how do you know how much to dose without testing?

Only dosed once, just got strips today so I dont over dose

[A.m.P]

A word of warning, don't drop your nitrates too quickly, you can actually cause bleaching or die-off. 80 is high but WWC has a display tank full of acros which ranges from 50-100 or something similarly absurd, that said nitrates that high *could* really be stressing out your inverts.

[xM3THODx]

8 hours ago, caleb.barger1 said:

Ive been doing some research  and it's interesting about this "no water change" thing. I haven't done a water change in 3 months. It's a 10 gallon tank, but when I was doing them I would get outbreaks of algae even when I'm running chemi pure blue in my HOB filter. But in the last 3 months all corals (GPS, xenia, hammer coral, zoas) have been spreading and getting bigger. Eventually I noticed the hammer starting to slow down and almost look like its receding. I dosed calcium and alkalinity and 2 days later it's looking better than ever with still no water changes, oh also I haven't tested ANY water on this tank EVER. I am definitely going to start testing now that I've started dosing, but it's interesting how my corals and fish look better than ever with no water changes for 3 months in such a small tank. I want to see where my levels are to see if my corals are possibly helping "fight off" the nitrates and phosphates, and I want to see how long I can possibly pull this off. 

 

I'll post my readings for nitrates and phosphates today or tomorrow whenever I can get around to picking up a test kit. Is there anyone that can explain possibly what's going on? Anyone have any tips for no water changes? I'm hoping my gsp and xenia will be the leading reason of me doing so well with no water changes because they have both taken off in growth since they've been in my tank for  4-6 months

 

My Filter media: chemi pure blue, bio balls, filter floss. (Change the filter floss out once a week, sometimes once every one and a half weeks.)

-my tank is about 8 months old.

I'm glad to read your corals are doing great without water changes. I've noticed that too in a way, my corals stopped growing with water changes so I lessened the amount and even stopped for months at a time and they blew up. Im a big proponent of observation of the inhabitants and if they look great, take note as far as parameters, lighting schedule, etc. and  aim to keep the stability at that point in time. 

So it is a great time to test if your starting to dose...especially the top 3. 

[caleb.barger1]

16 hours ago, Amphrites said:

A word of warning, don't drop your nitrates too quickly, you can actually cause bleaching or die-off. 80 is high but WWC has a display tank full of acros which ranges from 50-100 or something similarly absurd, that said nitrates that high *could* really be stressing out your inverts.

I'm not sure what I should really do then. Because I hear everywhere to keep nitrates at 0, but mine are at 80 ppm and i have no coral die off, no algae and no negative side effects with the fish. And I dont really have a clean up crew, just a turbo snail and another small snail, and a cleaner shrimp. Should I slowly just reduce nitrates with small water changes? I dont want to risk a big boom, but every thing looks healthy.

15 hours ago, xM3THODx said:

I'm glad to read your corals are doing great without water changes. I've noticed that too in a way, my corals stopped growing with water changes so I lessened the amount and even stopped for months at a time and they blew up. Im a big proponent of observation of the inhabitants and if they look great, take note as far as parameters, lighting schedule, etc. and  aim to keep the stability at that point in time. 

So it is a great time to test if your starting to dose...especially the top 3. 

What are your nitrates at? 

[Clown79]

4 minutes ago, caleb.barger1 said:

I'm not sure what I should really do then. Because I hear everywhere to keep nitrates at 0, but mine are at 80 ppm and i have no coral die off, no algae and no negative side effects with the fish. And I dont really have a clean up crew, just a turbo snail and another small snail, and a cleaner shrimp. Should I slowly just reduce nitrates with small water changes? I dont want to risk a big boom, but every thing looks healthy.

0 nitrates is old school belief.

 

0 nutrients kills your corals and leads to dino's.

 

Nitrates should be 2-10 which is perfectly safe and healthy.

Phos should be 0.03(many go higher with no negative effects)

 

 

[caleb.barger1]

18 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

0 nitrates is old school belief.

 

0 nutrients kills your corals and leads to dino's.

 

Nitrates should be 2-10 which is perfectly safe and healthy.

Phos should be 0.03(many go higher with no negative effects)

 

 

Okay, I might try bringing it down slowly with a 1 gallon change every other day? But if I start getting algae outbreaks I'm going to stop haha 😉

[mcarroll]

Just to pile on....might add something new too...

On 9/27/2019 at 10:06 AM, caleb.barger1 said:

I haven't done a water change in 3 months. It's a 10 gallon tank, but when I was doing them I would get outbreaks of algae even when I'm running chemi pure blue in my HOB filter.

 

Sounds like a typical new tank situation where there are very little nutrients, too much filtration and water changes. 

 

Sounds strange when you're only reading about things, but algae are well-adapted to every level and availability of nutrients, high or low nutrient levels.

 

You fight algae with balance and herbivores...pretty much nothing else.  🙂   (You're technically the biggest cleanup crew member your tank has BTW, so don't sleep on YOUR role! 🙂)

 

On 9/27/2019 at 10:06 AM, caleb.barger1 said:

But in the last 3 months all corals (GPS, xenia, hammer coral, zoas) have been spreading and getting bigger.

 

Your corals need the same nutrients, so now that you've stopped depriving them, they're growing well as you said.

 

In the future I wouldn't do any nutrient control OR any dosing without your tests (or the tank) indicating it was necessary.

 

8 minutes ago, caleb.barger1 said:

I hear everywhere to keep nitrates at 0

Just to pile on:  No.  😉

 

Especially on a new tank, think of the dissolved nitrates and phosphates in your water that show up on test kits as a "reserve tank" of nutrients.  This reserve tank will be critical to the startup of your tank where you're trying to grow a whole new balanced ecosystem from almost scratch.  That means your tank has to grow TONS of microbes, TONS of algae and still have "plenty" for growing corals too.

 

Mature tanks, in contrast, are MUCH better at recycling nutrients (the main function of all those algae and microbe you grow) so the "reserve tank" becomes less and less crucial the more mature your tank gets.  (As long as it remains healthy.)

 

Definitely get your BIG 5 tested (ca, alk, mg, no3, po4) at least one time as a benchmark....but if you're going to keep stony corals you're going to need AT LEAST an alkalinity test kit. 

 

It's possible to base your calcium and magnesium dosing on alkalinity consumption (read up on Randy Holmes-Farley's guides on alkalinity and dosing....all of em you can find) but it would be more ideal if you can test (and verify) all three numbers as you start dosing.

 

I wouldn't do anyting about your current test number without getting a complete read on all of the Big 5.

 

Pay close attention to your corals and other animals as you have been -- they will tell you if something is GOOD or of something is WRONG.  You shouldn't have to guess or take action on arbitrary determinations like "80 is too high".   Arm yourself with information FIRST.....act second.   Especially when things look like they're going well!

[Clown79]

12 minutes ago, caleb.barger1 said:

Okay, I might try bringing it down slowly with a 1 gallon change every other day? But if I start getting algae outbreaks I'm going to stop haha 😉

You can do more than a gallon.

 

Dropping nitrates from 80 is not an issue, you just don't want to strip the tank. 

 

 

[caleb.barger1]

23 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Just to pile on....might add something new too...

 

Sounds like a typical new tank situation where there are very little nutrients, too much filtration and water changes. 

 

Sounds strange when you're only reading about things, but algae are well-adapted to every level and availability of nutrients, high or low nutrient levels.

 

You fight algae with balance and herbivores...pretty much nothing else.  🙂   (You're technically the biggest cleanup crew member your tank has BTW, so don't sleep on YOUR role! 🙂)

 

 

Your corals need the same nutrients, so now that you've stopped depriving them, they're growing well as you said.

 

In the future I wouldn't do any nutrient control OR any dosing without your tests (or the tank) indicating it was necessary.

 

Just to pile on:  No.  😉

 

Especially on a new tank, think of the dissolved nitrates and phosphates in your water that show up on test kits as a "reserve tank" of nutrients.  This reserve tank will be critical to the startup of your tank where you're trying to grow a whole new balanced ecosystem from almost scratch.  That means your tank has to grow TONS of microbes, TONS of algae and still have "plenty" for growing corals too.

 

Mature tanks, in contrast, are MUCH better at recycling nutrients (the main function of all those algae and microbe you grow) so the "reserve tank" becomes less and less crucial the more mature your tank gets.  (As long as it remains healthy.)

 

Definitely get your BIG 5 tested (ca, alk, mg, no3, po4) at least one time as a benchmark....but if you're going to keep stony corals you're going to need AT LEAST an alkalinity test kit. 

 

It's possible to base your calcium and magnesium dosing on alkalinity consumption (read up on Randy Holmes-Farley's guides on alkalinity and dosing....all of em you can find) but it would be more ideal if you can test (and verify) all three numbers as you start dosing.

 

I wouldn't do anyting about your current test number without getting a complete read on all of the Big 5.

 

Pay close attention to your corals and other animals as you have been -- they will tell you if something is GOOD or of something is WRONG.  You shouldn't have to guess or take action on arbitrary determinations like "80 is too high".   Arm yourself with information FIRST.....act second.   Especially when things look like they're going well!

This is very informative, thank you! My tank is almost a year old now. You dont think its old enough to be stable? Obviously not I guess because of my readings, and we can't say anything for sure until I pick up the other test kits.