The salty 160 adventure

[This guy is extra salty]

I have been meaning to start a build thread for my 160 that is being the life line for my #oldschoolpicoreef 

 

scored a pretty sweet deal

spent $500 on:

• Display
• sump
• stand
• skimmer
• 2 heaters
• 2 return pumps
• carbon/gfo reactor
• lights
• CO2 scrubber
•  a bonus live rock with a toadstool on it

This tank was wet 7/23/18

build list:

 

• Marineland 120
• stand
• 55 gallon sump (40g refugium)
• two maxspect 230 gyres w/controller
• 2 jebao wavemakers
• 60lbs fiji pink sand
• 2 brightwell biobricks
• reef octopus skimmer
• 40lbs live rock  80lbs live rock
• brightwell neomarine salt
• 2 aqua illumination prime hd
• 2 rapid led aurora saltwater pucks (imitation xr15’s)

 

so i reseeded the tank with a biobrick that was from my RS750

it took about a week to fully cycle so the lady gets some clowns...

 

[This guy is extra salty]

Soon after I had to “organize the electronics”

still a rats nest

I also added lights and a hook for filter socks

[debbeach13]

That was a sweet deal! Tell us more.

[Ratvan]

Definitely a bargain, looking forwards to seeing what you come up with

[This guy is extra salty]

Here is s picture log from September 2018 until January 2019

the first two fishes

We decided to have a clown harem

During the fall and winter the tank gets about an hour of sunlight 

Here is the mushroom rock

I came home to this huge anemone that the ole lady purchased, which disappeared two weeks later.

A night shot and I can say I had a even amount of sand at that time until my diamond goby went nuts aquascaping

 

January 2019

 

[This guy is extra salty]

So after sending in a Triton icp test out earlier this month. I have been trying to figure out why my Acropora colonies are randomly RTN/STN.

 

Well the results are in everything is perfect but Tin and aluminum 😱

 

so i guess I’m going to be magnet fishing this weekend and digging through my tank and sump. I really don’t want to “start” over, maybe I can convince the ole lady to allow me to build a bigger tank.🤞

 

but for now looks like I’m heading online to @Marine Depot  and picking up some rowaphos and some polyfilter 

[mcarroll]

You've been using Phosguard without rinsing it, haven't you.  😉   (Hopefully that's why.)

 

Try this:  Run Poly Filter in a second chamber after your Phosguard (without adequate rinsing) and watch it turn aluminum color.  😉  Rinse that media WELL before it goes in the tank....no matter what it is, the powdery fines are almost always bad for the tank residents.  From the directions:  "Pre-wet by adding to a double volume of freshwater, followed by a rinse. For best results, PhosGuard™ should be rinsed before use and placed so as to maximize the flow of water through it but not so that it tumbles against itself in flow."

 

Rather than switching to an iron-based product, why not try going without instead?

 

Poly Filter and/or some water changes isn't a bad idea for the existing Al though.

[1891Bro]

On 9/11/2019 at 9:38 PM, This guy is extra salty said:

So after sending in a Triton icp test out earlier this month. I have been trying to figure out why my Acropora colonies are randomly RTN/STN.

 

Well the results are in everything is perfect but Tin and aluminum 😱

 

so i guess I’m going to be magnet fishing this weekend and digging through my tank and sump. I really don’t want to “start” over, maybe I can convince the ole lady to allow me to build a bigger tank.🤞

 

but for now looks like I’m heading online to @Marine Depot  and picking up some rowaphos and some polyfilter 

Good luck getting that aluminum out with a magnet 🧲 🙄. Because it’s nonferrous, get it?

[This guy is extra salty]

22 hours ago, mcarroll said:

You've been using Phosguard without rinsing it, haven't you.  😉   (Hopefully that's why.)

 

Try this:  Run Poly Filter in a second chamber after your Phosguard (without adequate rinsing) and watch it turn aluminum color.  😉  Rinse that media WELL before it goes in the tank....no matter what it is, the powdery fines are almost always bad for the tank residents.  From the directions:  "Pre-wet by adding to a double volume of freshwater, followed by a rinse. For best results, PhosGuard™ should be rinsed before use and placed so as to maximize the flow of water through it but not so that it tumbles against itself in flow."

 

Rather than switching to an iron-based product, why not try going without instead?

 

Poly Filter and/or some water changes isn't a bad idea for the existing Al though.

I have never used phosguard in any of my reef tanks...  second chamber? Lol this isn’t an AIO 😂 

 

im only using what is recommended by triton. rowaphos and 25% water changes for 6 weeks.

 

Im trying out polyfilter cause it’s capabilities to remove metals but it just turns brown(organics)

. I’ll keep it going for the next 5 weeks and do another ICP test.

 

22 hours ago, 1891Bro said:

Good luck getting that aluminum out with a magnet 🧲 🙄. Because it’s nonferrous, get it?

Well it was saying I might have a screw or two loose..🤣🤷‍♂️

[mcarroll]

11 minutes ago, This guy is extra salty said:

I have never used phosguard in any of my reef tanks...  second chamber? Lol this isn’t an AIO 😂 

I did say "hopefully" since that makes the story of Al being the problem work.  It's more of a mystery since you said no.

 

And don't be silly: 😉

A)  my 125 gallon is an all in one so size matters not!

B)  this is a reactor with a second chamber like I was talking about:

 

11 minutes ago, This guy is extra salty said:

im only using what is recommended by triton.

I will grant you that I do not pay close attention to Triton, so something could have changed, but the last time I looked they recommended Phosguard, or aluminum based phosphate removers. 

 

If not something like aluminum oxide, then to what do you attribute the high aluminum levels?  

 

Figuring out where it came from strikes me as being at least as important as removing it. 

 

Leaving Triton's flag aside for the moment, the fact that your poly filter is not turning red suggests the concentration if Al in the water is not all that high.  (It does turn red in the second chamber of that reactor I mentioned where there is definitely a concentration of Al...just for example.)

 

How about anything else aluminum in the tank?  I know another thing that is/was fairly popular with Triton devotees is to use extra bio media, which is often composed of aluminum compounds that are known leach into tank water. 

 

Last thought on the aluminum:   I know sometimes Triton flags things that are not necessarily worth flagging.

 

Have you had a chance to look around at other peoples Triton results who also had high aluminum (not uncommon, actually) to see if their tanks shared your symptoms or not?  (I did not read into the search results that far, but all of the ones that I read were people getting their first test results and worrying about the red flag, but without any negative symptoms at all on their tank.)

 

IMO, for what it's worth, I would not rule out the aluminum as a potential cause, but I would not focus on it any more than you have already until you have more evidence.   The evidence you have so far (poly filter) points to some other problem IMO. 

 

"Conveniently" there is another potential cause that you may consider which is quite a bit more likely than random aluminum poisoning, at least in terms of odds...

 

Are you using the phosphate remover on Triton's word? Or was there a pre-existing condition of some kind (maybe your own test results, or something else entirely) that called for it?

 

How have your po4 and no3 levels been on at-home tests?  (At-home tests are better early in the tank's history since you can test as-needed.)

 

Too low nutrient levels or zero nutrient levels are by far a more common cause of tissue necrosis than anything else.…too low phosphates in particular.  A certain amount of available phosphates (>0.03 ppm) is required to sustain photosynthesis without damage.   Without it, corals (and anemones!) can definitely bleach or even die. 

 

With the symptoms you were attempting to treat (STN'ing stony corals and unhappy anemones) I would make sure I was very confident about applying phosphate removers before applying them.  (Unless your levels were sky high, eg 5-10 ppm of po4,I would simply not do it.)  

 

Phosphate removers can definitely take a situation like yours from bad to worse if they are used when they are not called for.

 

[mcarroll]

On 9/9/2019 at 2:17 AM, This guy is extra salty said:

2 brightwell biobricks

missed this on every re-read of your post til after I hit send...grr!  😜

 

yank the bio brick and POOF no more aluminum.

 

I'm not sure that I remember die off being a problem associated with these blocks, or if it was just the elevated aluminum levels alone that were concerning.

 

I think if you read through several of the threads that show up on that search link I provided, you will be able to see from some other folks tanks which way this aluminum flag/bio-block issue panned out. I wish I could remember off hand.

 

This still makes me point at the potential phosphate issue as the cause for your coral/anemone troubles.  Let me know your thoughts on this! 👍

 

 

[Tamberav]

+1 it is the brick. People dump that crap in their nanos a lot here and I am guessing our more frequent larger water changes on nanos helps keep what it's leeching under control but I still don't get the point when we have live rock. With ICP testing becoming regular......products we would think are safe are suspect. 

[This guy is extra salty]

12 hours ago, mcarroll said:

missed this on every re-read of your post til after I hit send...grr!  😜

 

yank the bio brick and POOF no more aluminum.

 

I'm not sure that I remember die off being a problem associated with these blocks, or if it was just the elevated aluminum levels alone that were concerning.

 

I think if you read through several of the threads that show up on that search link I provided, you will be able to see from some other folks tanks which way this aluminum flag/bio-block issue panned out. I wish I could remember off hand.

 

This still makes me point at the potential phosphate issue as the cause for your coral/anemone troubles.  Let me know your thoughts on this! 👍

 

 

Po4 is a normal 0.005 above my average 

but would not cause acropora or anemones to die off

 

Here is the link with my results 

 

https://www.triton-lab.de/en/showroom/aquarium/auswertung-b/icp-oes/76120/

[mcarroll]

2 hours ago, This guy is extra salty said:

Po4 is a normal 0.005 above my average 

but would not cause acropora or anemones to die off

0.017 ppm is far too low, especially for a new tank.  

 

0.03 ppm (almost double your concentration) is the minimum to sustain photosynthesis, and photosynthesis is only one source of phosphate demand.  

 

At less than 0.03 ppm (in particular if it's being "forced" that low) it's not uncommon to see corals bleach or die off in a new tank.  It seems particularly true for both "SPS" and anemones, which are both often recommended only to more mature tanks.

 

(Mature tanks recycle nutrients WAY better than new tanks, so the particular numbers for dissolved nutrients become less crucial the older the tank gets.)

 

If you're doing anything for nutrient control other than live rock and protein skimming, I would recommend that you stop them at least for the time being until corals are all happy for a good amount of time.  Carbon dosing (eg vodka, vinegar, et al), phosphate media, water changes, algae reactors....stop anything like that.

 

What is the tank's current bio-load animal-wise?  What/how much are you feeding?

[This guy is extra salty]

9 hours ago, mcarroll said:

0.017 ppm is far too low, especially for a new tank.  

 

0.03 ppm (almost double your concentration) is the minimum to sustain photosynthesis, and photosynthesis is only one source of phosphate demand.  

 

At less than 0.03 ppm (in particular if it's being "forced" that low) it's not uncommon to see corals bleach or die off in a new tank.  It seems particularly true for both "SPS" and anemones, which are both often recommended only to more mature tanks.

 

(Mature tanks recycle nutrients WAY better than new tanks, so the particular numbers for dissolved nutrients become less crucial the older the tank gets.)

 

If you're doing anything for nutrient control other than live rock and protein skimming, I would recommend that you stop them at least for the time being until corals are all happy for a good amount of time.  Carbon dosing (eg vodka, vinegar, et al), phosphate media, water changes, algae reactors....stop anything like that.

 

What is the tank's current bio-load animal-wise?  What/how much are you feeding?

The 160 is a year and half, with rock from my RS750XXL that is a SPS acro dominant tank.

 

flash forward 8months 

 

FTS 9/25/19

 

 the 160  has a 40g fuge with a ball of Chaeto the size of a watermelon. and I’m running a coffee out of the skimmer.

 

All the softies, SPS, LPS are all doing great. it’s just the acros that this tank is having issues with.

 

i only dose the basics (Ca/KH/MG) and the 1ml of acropower weekly mixed in with 30g of fresh saltwater.  

 

I have a large bio load

 

1 mini maxi

2 RFA 

5 herbivores

5 clowns

2 cardinals

1 goby 

1 wrasse

1 pistol shrimp

1 harlequin shrimp

2 pin urchins

3 pencil urchins

4 chocolate sea stars

(they live in the sump)

 

im not going to bother counting snails 🐌 and crabs 🦀 

[mcarroll]

2 hours ago, This guy is extra salty said:

The 160 is a year and half

I moved all my stuff from a multi-tank setup into my 125 Gallon about a year ago and it's just getting it's "sea legs" back.  10 years established before the move and nothing left the water for more than 20 seconds.  It's a kick in the soft parts for a reef to get moved sometimes.  I had an big hair algae bloom and everything.

(It's a 120 display, correct?)

 

2 hours ago, This guy is extra salty said:

a ball of Chaeto the size of a watermelon

Zero this out or make it the size of a golf ball, and keep it that way for a while whichever you do.  Should take most of the competitive pressure off of your corals for dissolved nutrients.

 

2 hours ago, This guy is extra salty said:

and I’m running a coffee out of the skimmer.

Hm...literally like coffee would be nasty and doesn't sound completely healthy.  

 

Is it maybe from not cleaning the skimmer cup often enough, or is there something you feed that would explain it?  

 

Wet or dry skimming?  (Pic?)

 

Either way I don't think the skimmer is contributing significantly to the nutrient deficit.

 

2 hours ago, This guy is extra salty said:

1ml of acropower weekly

This is so minor because of the amount you're dosing, but still prolly worth noting.  Amino's are the opposite of what you'd want to be dosing in this circumstance – primarily carbon and nitrogen.

 

Carbon will goose bacterial consumption of nutrients into high gear.

 

Nitrogen will goose your dino's into high gear, causing them to run out of phosphates, causing things like bleaching and death to their hosts.

 

I would prolly stop dosing Acropower on all three bases:  dosing too little for benefit, risk from carbon additions, risk from nitrogen additions.

 

If you dose anything it should be someything like potassium nitrate and potassium phosphate to boost levels precisely.  But I think reducing or removing the chaeto will probably achieve the same end without dosing.  Just keep an eye on nitrates and phosphates to make sure things are going the right way.  I'd suggest getting test kits for those.

[This guy is extra salty]

So why are you telling to change everything when nothing is wrong with the tank?

im not dosing anything except the basics and don’t feel the need to since all the corals are growing like weeds. 

 

Why change something if nothing is wrong?

”if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”

[mcarroll]

This started with chasing a test number for Aluminum...

 

Which led to your extra filtration. (Bio bricks)...

 

Which led to.....everything else.  😄 

 

Whether you change anything is surely up to you....I'm 100% digital in this situation - can't actually do anyhing. 😉 

 

I certainly never suggested anything like changing everything.  Just making deductions based on evidence you give. 👍

 

But you did mention some coral troubles and an anemone that disappeared, so maybe we had all that conversation for a good reason?

 

I can't tell from here, I've been going on your word.

 

This is as close as I can get yo your tank...

 

👀

 

...nuthin'!!

[This guy is extra salty]

So I have decided, on building a new stand.

 

I finally get to try out my new software that I was sent out of state for training on.

It’s going to be 3/4” lexan which I have been collecting a bunch of 4’ scrap that I’m planning on using for the look of shiplap but will hold up structural integrity.

 

I did most of the Designing and drawing last week, while i was training. If only I had more machine time lol I’ll make some videos of the process. 

 

the main reason I’m redoing the stand is because of the original one, all of the hardware is rusting. Literally everything is rusted underneath.  and I’m scared the stand is a time bomb waiting for failure.
 

But on the plus side I can ask for a couple hundred more cause of the stand being custom.  I haven’t decided on putting doors on it yet. But the perks of being custom,  I’m incorporating some “cooling” fans to vent it on the backside. 2 extra doors on the ends  for maintenance. I can now build a custom sump for it also 90gallons sounds about right? But mostly it will have a 60gallon refugium. 

[mcarroll]

On 10/15/2019 at 11:50 PM, This guy is extra salty said:

It’s going to be 3/4” lexan which I have been collecting a bunch of 4’ scrap that I’m planning on using for the look of shiplap but will hold up structural integrity.

A plastic stand?????

 

On 10/15/2019 at 11:50 PM, This guy is extra salty said:

the main reason I’m redoing the stand is because of the original one, all of the hardware is rusting. Literally everything is rusted underneath.  and I’m scared the stand is a time bomb waiting for failure.

The hardware "should" just be holding the pieces of stand together and NOT supporting any weight.  (At least with most designs...of course anything is possible.)  Is your rusting hardware actually supporting weight?  (Same white stand from the pic a few posts up?)

 

On 10/15/2019 at 11:50 PM, This guy is extra salty said:

But on the plus side I can ask for a couple hundred more cause of the stand being custom.  I haven’t decided on putting doors on it yet. But the perks of being custom,  I’m incorporating some “cooling” fans to vent it on the backside. 2 extra doors on the ends  for maintenance. I can now build a custom sump for it also 90gallons sounds about right? But mostly it will have a 60gallon refugium. 

Can't wait to see it!!  👍

[This guy is extra salty]

Yes same stand, all the Brad nails are rusting. Which is leaving a nice snail trail of rust towards the bottom of the stand. 

i have been consulting my SO on what she wants to do with her tank. She wants to have acropora but I guess I’ll see where we stand with this next Triton test. 
 

we might be tearing down the tank and selling it. Which will be replaced by my RS750XXL.