Dino's?

[justinkdenny]

Is this dino's?  Sorry for the crappy pic.  It wont let me post video.  Its stringy and also have brown dusting on the sand.

[justinkdenny]

[seabass]

Hard to say for sure from pics, but I'd say it's cyano.

 

• In natural light, does it appear reddish?  If so, probably cyano.
• Does it basically go away at night, and then reappear after the lights have been on for awhile?  If so, possible dinos.

 

Dinos are more like snot, tend to hold air bubbles, and are more golden/tan/brownish in color.

[justinkdenny]

6 minutes ago, seabass said:

Hard to say for sure from pics, but I'd say it's cyano.

 

• In natural light, does it appear reddish?  If so, probably cyano.
• Does it basically go away at night, and then reappear after the lights have been on for awhile?  If so, possible dinos.

 

Dinos are more like snot, tend to hold air bubbles, and are more golden/tan/brownish in color.

These look more brown.  It seems worse when lights are on for a while. Tried to look at it under a microscope without much luck.  I did get video of something moving on gravel pieces under microscope.  My cuc also seems lethargic and a few have died which I have read could be from dino's. My newest cuc I have added all seem better . Wish I could get better pics .

[justinkdenny]

These little guys were moving around under the microscope 

[seabass]

Is it a relatively new tank?  Maybe started with dry rock?  How are your nutrient levels?  Biodiversity?

[justinkdenny]

Tank pushing 3 months.  Nitrates 10ppm last check.  Never has shown phosphates with my salifert test kit.  Dry rock start.  First time I have tried a dry rock start.  Maybe never again.  I didn't have this problem with my 75 gallon back in the day with live rock

[seabass]

1 hour ago, justinkdenny said:

I didn't have this problem with my 75 gallon back in the day with live rock

Yeah, seems to be a more common problem with newish tanks that started with dry rock.  Lack of phosphate could be an issue, as could be the lack of biodiversity due to the dry rock.

 

Introduction of pods, macroalgae, live rock, dosing phyto might all help.

[mcarroll]

The high nitrates fuels them to divide into greater numbers, but the zero phosphate level triggers them to switch from photosynthesis to killing and eating their microbial neighbors for macro nutrients.

 

Dosing some phosphate would actually help prevent current and future generations from resorting to eating...and might even be all you'd have to do since it looks like a very mild bloom so far.   If you do, maintain phosphate levels at >=0.10 ppm until signs of dinos are gone and you have some green or coraline algae growing.   Do not let nitrates drop below 5ppm or so....anywhere more than 5 ppm is fine.

 

Has there ever been coraline or green algae growth?

 

Since you're noticing effects on the cleanup crew this also indicates your dino's are generating toxins.  You should run fresh activated carbon....I'd use 1/4 of the recommended dose and change it out 4x as often as recommended (usually that means weekly).

[justinkdenny]

1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

The high nitrates fuels them to divide into greater numbers, but the zero phosphate level triggers them to switch from photosynthesis to killing and eating their microbial neighbors for macro nutrients.

 

Dosing some phosphate would actually help prevent current and future generations from resorting to eating...and might even be all you'd have to do since it looks like a very mild bloom so far.   If you do, maintain phosphate levels at >=0.10 ppm until signs of dinos are gone and you have some green or coraline algae growing.   Do not let nitrates drop below 5ppm or so....anywhere more than 5 ppm is fine.

 

Has there ever been coraline or green algae growth?

 

Since you're noticing effects on the cleanup crew this also indicates your dino's are generating toxins.  You should run fresh activated carbon....I'd use 1/4 of the recommended dose and change it out 4x as often as recommended (usually that means weekly).

I have not had any coraline algea growth yet and the frags didn't have much on them .  The snails had a little on them.  I tried to buy a small piece of live rock from the rock tanks at my lfs but they didn't have much on it either.

 

Is there a good product you recommend to dose phosphate? 

 

What about UV filter?

 

I also read about dosing bacteria? 

[justinkdenny]

2 hours ago, seabass said:

Yeah, seems to be a more common problem with newish tanks that started with dry rock.  Lack of phosphate could be an issue, as could be the lack of biodiversity due to the dry rock.

 

Introduction of pods, macroalgae, live rock, dosing phyto might all help.

I'll ask my lfs if they sell pods and phyto.  Do you mean macroalgae in tank or a mini fuge with chaeto?

[neyes_ice]

whats your nutrient export? maybe remove them for a bit to raise your phosphates.

are your corals closing up? when i had dinos corals were unhappy 

brightwell has products for dosing nitrates and phosphates but its expensive per ml. 

 

i used this http://greenleafaquariums.com/products/mono-potassium-phosphate-kh2po4-1lb-bag.html 

[justinkdenny]

Just now, nano_nano_nano said:

whats your nutrient export? maybe remove them for a bit to raise your phosphates.

are your corals closing up? when i had dinos corals were unhappy 

brightwell has products for dosing nitrates and phosphates but its expensive per ml. 

 

i used this http://greenleafaquariums.com/products/mono-potassium-phosphate-kh2po4-1lb-bag.html 

Only water changes.  Corals, mainly torch and zoas open but not extended as much as they were.

[neyes_ice]

looks like the beginning of dinos, its usually advised to stop with the water changes since the trace elements in the new water also feed them. but im curious though if water changes are your primary nutrient export how come your phosphates are 0? how many fish do you have? how often do you feed them? maybe a little extra feeding might help with the phosphates? some people don't like the extra feeding so they dose the needed nutrient instead.

[justinkdenny]

17 minutes ago, nano_nano_nano said:

looks like the beginning of dinos, its usually advised to stop with the water changes since the trace elements in the new water also feed them. but im curious though if water changes are your primary nutrient export how come your phosphates are 0? how many fish do you have? how often do you feed them? maybe a little extra feeding might help with the phosphates? some people don't like the extra feeding so they dose the needed nutrient instead.

10 gallon im nuvo, 1 fish that I feed once maybe twice a day with pumps off so he gets it all, or most all of it before it goes into filter floss.  I also change floss regularly.

[justinkdenny]

This is made for my tank.  Wonder if it would help?

 

[seabass]

1 hour ago, justinkdenny said:

Do you mean macroalgae in tank or a mini fuge with chaeto?

I meant for the display (for the biodiversity).  Often macroalgae contains good biodiversity in the form of pods and other life.

 

It's true that the algae will also be consuming nutrients.  So it may be necessary to dose more nutrients if you add macro.

 

Obviously macro is just one way to introduce diversity.  Live sand from a healthy tank is another.  Actually purchasing pods is an option too.

[mcarroll]

I would use whatever phosphates they carry locally to you — you shouldn't need very much so cost should not become a factor.  Seachem seems to be the most common.

 

I don't think you'll need UV if you manage nutrients and add biodiversity, but save the idea. 

[justinkdenny]

4 hours ago, mcarroll said:

I would use whatever phosphates they carry locally to you — you shouldn't need very much so cost should not become a factor.  Seachem seems to be the most common.

 

I don't think you'll need UV if you manage nutrients and add biodiversity, but save the idea. 

Where do you guys use to buy pods.  Algaebarn looks pretty good and sale pod and phytoplankton sets together but I wouldn't know which to choose since they have quite a few different types of pods.

[seabass]

You could try:  https://aquariumdepot.com/amphipods-copepods-1000/

[mcarroll]

I'm not sure what you have already done, but I would take care of the toxins and other basics  like nutrients first before adding any new life.

 

With the water full of toxins anything you add like pods or phyto is very likely to die when added.

 

• Activated carbon
• Replete nitrates and phosphates
• Add biodiversity

Adding new pods and phyto is an interesting option, but adding a coral or two might be a better choice at this stage since they will carry a much wider variety of organisms into your tank  – or at least I would consider doing both. (after carbon and nutrients are addressed).

[seabass]

1 minute ago, mcarroll said:

adding a coral or two might be a better choice at this stage since they will carry a much wider variety of organisms into your tank

I suppose that depends on if you dip your coral frags.  Anymore, we tend to limit the additional life we introduce due to harsh coral dips.

[mcarroll]

I'm pretty sure the only reason coral survive those dips with the survival rate they do is because they can seal off their body cavity – thankfully for them this is where the majority of those microbes are, that and locked in their mucus.

[justinkdenny]

13 hours ago, mcarroll said:

I'm not sure what you have already done, but I would take care of the toxins and other basics  like nutrients first before adding any new life.

 

With the water full of toxins anything you add like pods or phyto is very likely to die when added.

 

• Activated carbon
• Replete nitrates and phosphates
• Add biodiversity

Adding new pods and phyto is an interesting option, but adding a coral or two might be a better choice at this stage since they will carry a much wider variety of organisms into your tank  – or at least I would consider doing both. (after carbon and nutrients are addressed).

I run carbon and have started changing it every week like you suggested. 

 

12 hours ago, seabass said:

I suppose that depends on if you dip your coral frags.  Anymore, we tend to limit the additional life we introduce due to harsh coral dips.

I have always dipped my corals.  I literally probably have 0 pods in this tanks. 

 

Tested nitrates and phosphate tonight. 

Nitrates- 2ppm

Phosphates- undetectable 

Thanks guys for all your insight.  I really appreciate it and hopefully I can get this nipped in the bud.

 

[mcarroll]

Good to know!   I would stop doing any nutrient export currently happening (keep the protein skimmer and that's about it) and see if that's enough change to get some detectable phosphates....could be all it takes.