We can’t seem to keep fish alive

[Bec1750]

I really don’t know what we are doing wrong. We just added a 6 line wrasse and a Nemo on Tuesday. We had the water checked and it tested perfectly. So we added just those 2 fish. Other then those we have an bubble tip who may not be doing that well and then 2 snails and 2 or 3 small hermits. The wrasse seemed to be doing fine when we first put him in the tank. He was eating the amphipods like crazy. Then we didn’t see him at all yesterday. My son said he saw him in the rock and that he hadn’t seen him out of the rock. I couldn’t see him so I picked up the rock and It seems as though he may of gotten himself caught? Well I got him out and now I think he’s on his way out. Is it common for wrasse to get caught in rocks and not come out for days? 

 

Ps we previously had 2 Nemo’s and small dainty puffer (forgetting the name) in there that didn’t survive either 😞 

[Clown79]

How old is the tank, how was it set up? 

Were there any visual signs of issues or behaviour changes?

 

 

 

There are a few factors

 

1. Tank never cycled can't support livestock

2. Buying fish from same place which maybe is the problem

3. First fish had an illness and any other fish added is getting the illness. 

[Bec1750]

8 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

How old is the tank, how was it set up? 

Were there any visual signs of issues or behaviour changes?

 

 

 

There are a few factors

 

1. Tank never cycled can't support livestock

2. Buying fish from same place which maybe is the problem

3. First fish had an illness and any other fish added is getting the illness. 

The tank will be a year old in December. It is a 32 gallon biocube. Visual signs or issues on the first 5 fish that died no other then the bellanie. He seemed to have something happening with his mouth and the fish store told us he probably hit his mouth on the rocks. But he died a long time ago. The other set of fish with the two clowns and the puffer no signs at all. All of a sudden one Clown disappeared then the second and then I saw the puffer dying. It’s been about 2 months since that group of fish died. So we went to the fish store on Tuesday and had them test the water. Everything tested fine. They also suggested we do a water change so we did that on Tuesday too. Now the wrasse seems to be dying. The Nemo seems to be fine still swimming around. We have been going to the same store so like you said maybe that’s it? As far as cycling is concerned it seems to have cycled or at least they told us it has. I’ll attach a pic of the tank that I am literally going to take right now so you can see it. Thanks!! 

[Ratvan]

Did the LFS give you numbers? Or tell you "everything is fine"? Always insist on Numbers if you can with tests. 

How deep is your sandbed? I know Wrasses like to sleep under the substrate for protection 

 

[Bec1750]

4 minutes ago, Ratvan said:

Did the LFS give you numbers? Or tell you "everything is fine"? Always insist on Numbers if you can with tests. 

How deep is your sandbed? I know Wrasses like to sleep under the substrate for protection 

 

They did both I’ll attach a pic of the numbers. I don’t know how deep our sand is. It was a full bag of the live sand that they sold us at the fish store. He wasn’t in the substrate he was up inside a rock crevice and appeared to be stuck in the live rock. We hadn’t seen him for a day. 

[Rob22]

Sand bed depth is fine. You are going about 1” and the six line doesn’t bury themselves. They will produce a mucus cocoon and sleep in the rocks. Some species of wrasses, like the halichoeres, do require a deeper sand bed because they will bury themselves when sleeping or threatened. 

 

Do you you have your own test kits? I wouldn’t trust the ones at the LFS. Your tank is a year old and has cyano on the sand. You can likely fix this with more circulation, but it also needs nutrients to grow. Do you carbon dose, vodka dose, vinegar dose, use nopox, have biopellets, have a skimmer? What are you water changes like, frequency and amount?

 

The 0 for nitrate makes me believe the LFS either has bad test kits, or worse is misleading you. 

[Clown79]

0 nitrates isn't good.

 

You have some algae in the sand, it may be using up the available nutrients in the tank.

 

How much rock is in the tank? It looks a little low for a 32g and if so, your biological filter may not be able to handle all the fish.

 

I would add only 1 fish at a time. 

 

Is the surviving clown 1 of the first fish in the tank? See any signs of aggression from it with the new additions?

 

How often are you doing waterchanges, changing filter media etc.?

[Bec1750]

2 minutes ago, Rob22 said:

Sand bed depth is fine. You are going about 1” and the six line doesn’t bury themselves. They will produce a mucus cocoon and sleep in the rocks. Some species of wrasses, like the halichoeres, do require a deeper sand bed because they will bury themselves when sleeping or threatened. 

 

Do you you have your own test kits? I wouldn’t trust the ones at the LFS. Your tank is a year old and has cyano on the sand. You can likely fix this with more circulation, but it also needs nutrients to grow. Do you carbon dose, vodka dose, vinegar dose, use nopox, have biopellets, have a skimmer? What are you water changes like, frequency and amount?

 

The 0 for nitrate makes me believe the LFS either has bad test kits, or worse is misleading you. 

Honestly we knew nothing about this hobby when we got started. The fish store did t tell us anything and I am the type of person that needs specifics. I need to be told hey do a water change and do this and that and this often and so on. 

 

As as far as the cyano on the sand is that bad? We are looking to get “clean up crew” in there cause we are having a major take over of amphipods which has happened in the last like week. 

 

As as far as those doses you mentioned I honestly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and I’ve never heard of them so I’m going to say we haven’t done any of that. Skimmer, like a fish or a machine? 

 

With what are water changes look like  we’ve only done one because again I didn’t know we had to be doing these things 😞. So we did one on Tuesday. It was a 10 gallon water change so 1/3 of the tank. 

[Bec1750]

3 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

0 nitrates isn't good.

 

You have some algae in the sand, it may be using up the available nutrients in the tank.

 

How much rock is in the tank? It looks a little low for a 32g and if so, your biological filter may not be able to handle all the fish.

 

I would add only 1 fish at a time. 

 

Is the surviving clown 1 of the first fish in the tank? See any signs of aggression from it with the new additions?

 

How often are you doing waterchanges, changing filter media etc.?

I dunno how much rock. I believe it was a few Lund’s 🤷🏻‍♀️ I’ll attach a video I just took so you can see the rock. 

 

No that clown we just just got on Tuesday. So this afternoon will be that we’ve had it for 2 days. We have no original fish in the tank. Everything has died. 

 

The filter and water changes we have been lagging on because because we didn’t know what to do. We were totally and completely in the dark 😞.  We just did a 10 gallon water change on Tuesday. And we also changed the filter and used what they told us to use at the pet store. I’ll attach a pic of that too. 

[Ratvan]

With water changes 20% is often considered "large" I would probably change 5g at a time. Weekly or Bi Weekly (every other week) 

 

Floss is good. I change mine whenever I notice it is dirty. Normally 2 times a week. Although I have diatoms at the minute so changing twice daily after blasting them into my HOB filter. Buy this in bulk it will last a long time and you will use it often.

 

Do you stir the sandbed or anything? Syphon? Just trying to figure out your maintenance routine

[Bec1750]

10 minutes ago, Ratvan said:

With water changes 20% is often considered "large" I would probably change 5g at a time. Weekly or Bi Weekly (every other week) 

 

Floss is good. I change mine whenever I notice it is dirty. Normally 2 times a week. Although I have diatoms at the minute so changing twice daily after blasting them into my HOB filter. Buy this in bulk it will last a long time and you will use it often.

 

Do you stir the sandbed or anything? Syphon? Just trying to figure out your maintenance routine

Ok we will switch to that water change regimen. Thank you for the advice with that!

 

we use a syphon to syphon the water and when we did that we did move the sand around. My son has also gotten in there with a rake and or a net to pick up the algae or whatever that is on the sand before and throws out what he collects.  

[Ratvan]

Hang on. 1 water change and floss change in a year?

 

 

Try weekly at first and test and record the results somewhere. I try and go as long as possible between SC as I like a "dirtier tank" and aim for corals that enjoy a heavy feeding hand.

 

Also note when you make additions to the tank. If anything goes wrong you can figure out a culprit easier.

 

Invest in Test Kits. I use API but LOATHE the colour scale. I'm going to try another brand soon. It saves money in the long run and is far more convenient. You can also take pictures of coloured vials and feel scientific. 

 

Yes for the little helper as well.

[Bec1750]

7 minutes ago, Ratvan said:

Hang on. 1 water change and floss change in a year?

 

 

Try weekly at first and test and record the results somewhere. I try and go as long as possible between SC as I like a "dirtier tank" and aim for corals that enjoy a heavy feeding hand.

 

Also note when you make additions to the tank. If anything goes wrong you can figure out a culprit easier.

 

Invest in Test Kits. I use API but LOATHE the colour scale. I'm going to try another brand soon. It saves money in the long run and is far more convenient. You can also take pictures of coloured vials and feel scientific. 

 

Yes for the little helper as well.

Yes only one water change. I know now that is really bad but we didn’t know any better and had no guidance. With the filter we’ve probably changed that 4 or 5 times but they were all recent. Again we didn’t know any better 😞 

 

We do have an at home test kit but it’s like a dip stick kind. Is that okay? 

 

We we are headed to the store now to get helpers. We are going to a different store then the one we have been going to 

[Tired]

You definitely need a different store, yours has been giving you bad advice.

 

The dip stick kind is notoriously inaccurate. You want the kind with the test tubes and the vigorous shaking. 

 

I'd say your problem is probably that you only did one water change a year. 

 

What salt mix are you using, and what water are you mixing it into? 

 

See if you can get some chaeto macroalgae, it'll help keep things cleaner. 

 

Also, check your filter compartments. As in, take out the filter media and everything else and look inside. Fish can fit through those slits, jump back, or get in through the overflow, and will get lost back there. I had a goby go missing in a biocube and turn up 2 months later, underneath all the stuff in the filter, a bit skinny but alive. Just be sure you take out the pump first, you don't want to scare the fish into the pump. I would 100% block the overflow and slots with mesh or sponge, also, your clown is tiny and could get back there. It's inconvenient for you and hard on the fish. If there's a fish back there, you'll need either a small net or a small hand to get in there and get it out. Generally you don't want to use your hand to catch fish, but if it's a non-venomous one and you really need it out of the filter compartment, a hand grab is okay just to quickly pop it back into the tank. 

[mcarroll]

2 hours ago, Rob22 said:

The 0 for nitrate makes me believe the LFS either has bad test kits, or worse is misleading you.

I'm not sure where you're getting your phobia of local fish stores - wow!  😉

 

3 hours ago, Bec1750 said:

 

0 nitrates is likely -- it's pretty obvious just from the tank photo showing nothing but cyano growing. 

 

The store's test pretty much confirms your observations, so no reason to question.  (Still not bad to have your own test kits.)

 

If you are going to add corals and other invertebrates to the tank, I'd give up on fish for now and focus on those things.

 

Add a small cleanup crew and a coral or two and see how things go for a few weeks or even a few months.  Add more cleanup crew if it seems needed.  Add one or two more corals if things are going well, and then wait a few more weeks or months to gauge progress again.

 

Going slow like that will let you see more easily what's going on in the tank AND give you a lot more time to learn, react and make any needed changes.

 

By the time you have a nice coral population and cleanup crew built up, several months will have passed, the tank will have matured, and you can try adding fish again.  Start with just one, and give it at least a few weeks or a month or two before adding another one.  Take the time to observe how the tank's algae load responds to the new food going into the tank for the fish.  Adjust the cleanup crew if needed.  Add another coral or two if that's in the plans.  After plenty of waiting and observing add a second fish if you want.  Repeat the waiting and observing.  Etc.

 

BTW, it seems like you might end up wanting another chunk or two of live rock.   I dunno if I'd say that's a necessity, but more would give prospective fish a lot more hiding and sleeping spaces once you add them.

[Rob22]

I know you have already left for the store but I would like to give you some suggestions. 

 

Salinity monitoring - get a  salinity refractometer. The most important thing is consistency and accurate readings. It is possibly if your salinity is off that you could have put the fish into osmotic shock depending on how you acclimated them. This can damage their organs and could take a week or so for them to die, but it is possible. If you have another way to monitor salinity you can use that, but make sure any fish you buy has the salinity of their bag water matching your tank salinity before adding them. With the biocubes the salinity can swing pretty good with evaporation. Always replace evaporated water with fresh water, not saltwater. Salt doesn’t evaporate so as the water level goes down your salinity raises. Top offs should be done with RO/DI if possible, then distilled water and as a last resort conditioned tap water. 

 

API test kits aren’t the best, but they will work for what you have. 

 

Ammonia - I use API. I don’t care about a number, just if ammonia is present the tank isn’t ready for fish. Yours should be as it is a year old, but only one at a time and a few weeks between additions. If you have ammonia present you can add a binder like Prime. It won’t get rid of the test results but will make it safe. 

 

Nitrate - just get an API kit to start. I use salifert, but have low nutrients in two reefs. 

 

Nitrite - API will work but if you are through the cycle I wouldn’t worry about it. Nitrite is toxic to freshwater fish but doesn’t really affect saltwater. If you are cycling a tank you want to know if it is present but once you are cycled properly you will likely never rest for it again. I haven’t tested nitrite in years. 

 

Ph - self regulates and will change throughout the day with light schedules and oxygenation. Don’t chase a Ph number, again I don’t test for this. I have a Ph probe in my big tank but mostly because it came with my apex. 

 

Alkalinity - Alk swings don’t harm fish as much as inverts, but an alk swing can kill your BTA. You aren’t running stony corals so it shouldn’t really swing. I would just get a kit and make sure it stays stable. I use a Hannah checker for Alk. 

 

You shouldn't have to worry about calcium or magnesium at this point. 

[mcarroll]

1 hour ago, Bec1750 said:

We do have an at home test kit but it’s like a dip stick kind. Is that okay?

They are fine for basic purposes, but they you can't get exact numbers from them.  (Make sure you check the expiration date on any test kit before using it.)

 

If your store has better tests and they are convenient to you, it's fine to keep using them.

 

But a set of API or even Salifert test kits isn't that expensive in the long run.   IMO just buy the kits you need when you need them though....don't buy a whole set.  For now, alkalinity and nitrates may be all you need.   Probably add calcium, magnesium and phosphate test kits when you add corals.

 

I'd consider removing the media from your filter and running it empty. 

 

You might consider a powerhead to move more water in the tank once you have corals.

 

I would also strongly consider getting one or more reefing books.   Look for anything by Bob Fenner, John Tullock, Dana Riddle, Delbeek & Sprung, Fosa & Nilsen, etc.  There are tons of great books....even older ones usually have all the basics.  I have books from the 1800's, 1930's, 1950's, 1970's and all are better than the starter advice most folks seem to get online.  Shop used if your budget is tight....used books are CHEAP.

[mcarroll]

2 hours ago, Bec1750 said:

we are having a major take over of amphipods which has happened in the last like week. 

 

Great news!!!    Sounds like your tank is JUST NOW starting to mature nicely!

 

IMO the cyano is no reason to make harsh changes or to do anything too special to remove it. 

 

Cyano doesn't hurt anything, just looks funny.  It'll disappear as fast as it appeared once conditions change for the better!

 

Doesn't really hurt to clean it up either...but water changes can coincidentally reinforce the conditions that make cyano grow, so often leaving it to run its course works at least as well as cleaning it up.

 

[WhiteShark]

I'd stop adding stuff, and do more research before you continue on. If you were only doing 1 water change a year, that shows a severe lack of knowledge. Not that you were "supposed" to know any of these things before you started (we're not born with this knowledge), but start reading around on forums and learn about things before you just start throwing fish in a tank. It's not only a waste of time and money, but your killing fish as well. 

[Clown79]

I Highly recommend reading through TOTM's on here, peoples journals, sticky threads.

 

There is valuable information and it really helps out.

 

There is a lot to learn in this hobby but knowledge makes it easier and more enjoyable.

 

Weekly waterchanges of 10-15% are a common practice. During waterchanges using a new Turkey baster on rocks helps remove detritus from them and 

 Vacuuming sand to keep it clean during waterchanges helps prevent issues.

 

Change filter floss on waterchange day and another day mid week. Carbon bags should be rinsed with each waterchange and changed every 2-3 weeks.

 

I'm not sure how much rock you have but in a 32g, 15-20lbs is a good number.

 

You can add caribsea liferock safely or you'd need to get cured liverock to add.

 

I'd also get a cuc in there, a powerhead, and some testing kits.

[Tamberav]

Lots of good advise here....get a proper maintenance routine before adding more life. Maintenance is generally a weekly thing.

 

A powerhead would be a good idea.

 

Don't go digging fish out of rocks. They don't get stuck!!! They wedge themselves into places on purpose to hide or because they are stressed/sick. Digging them out only stresses them more. The only reason you would try to get them out is to move them to a hospital tank if they needed treatment with medication...otherwise leave them alone.