Ratvan's RSM 130D

[DSFIRSTSLTWATER]

11 minutes ago, Ratvan said:

Glad I picked up those Bio Spheres now lol. I can find loads of Marko Rock (£11.99 per Kilo) which is more expensive than "real" rock. Alternatively I can always looks for corals on nice rocks and add that way?

You could do that too.

[StinkyBunny]

52 minutes ago, Ratvan said:

Glad I picked up those Bio Spheres now lol. I can find loads of Marko Rock (£11.99 per Kilo) which is more expensive than "real" rock. Alternatively I can always looks for corals on nice rocks and add that way?

You can't go wrong adding the spheres. If you can find decent rock with corals, that's great. Vietnam is shipping their stuff out on this shitty man made shit. I haven't done anything marine out of there since they stopped shipping stock on it. My customers say that is not good and they have to put it on other medium to sell so Vietnam is just about done. I suspect a lot of other sources will follow suit.

[Ratvan]

Well back up plan is to cover as much of the back wall as I can with this https://marineaquatics.co.uk/shop/live-rocks-all-dry-rocks/marco-rock-cut-base-flat-edge/.

 

I've ordered enough eggcrate to be able to build a false wall incase I dont like the idea after 6 months. I'm also looking at DIY "aquaroche" structure out of this and egg crate. Possibly an orchid pot? 🤷‍♂️ That maybe a better option actually.

 

Got the Dr Tim's on order so that's one option. Then I can add to this with the live rock in my 5.5G. 

 

Urgh irritated

[Ratvan]

So boom...... or should I say "splash". Macgyvered an output connection out of various pipe sizes (airline and flexi hose) f#ck waiting. I'm bored

 

[billygoat]

I see water! This is great! 😁

 

Glad you have got the ball rolling with this one. Now you've just got to get the rocks you want and you'll be golden. 👌

[Ratvan]

Thanks, yeah got fed up and decided to bodge it and move on. 

Annoyed about the cloudiness but that should clear. Cut the corners off of both sides, inserted a hose with muslin tied over the end and pushed all the shite out the other hole. Also stuck a magnet into the bag and fished out some small amount of magnetic minerals from the sand. 

 

I might be able to rob someone's display tank rock in the next couple of days 😄

[StinkyBunny]

2 hours ago, Ratvan said:

Thanks, yeah got fed up and decided to bodge it and move on. 

Annoyed about the cloudiness but that should clear. Cut the corners off of both sides, inserted a hose with muslin tied over the end and pushed all the shite out the other hole. Also stuck a magnet into the bag and fished out some small amount of magnetic minerals from the sand. 

 

I might be able to rob someone's display tank rock in the next couple of days 😄

Get some filtre floss, that knocks the crap out of the water. 

[jack1978]

3 hours ago, Ratvan said:

So boom...... or should I say "splash". Macgyvered an output connection out of various pipe sizes (airline and flexi hose) f#ck waiting. I'm bored

 

Wow, that's beautiful!

[mcarroll]

On 9/7/2019 at 10:21 AM, Ratvan said:

To increase biofilter i plan on rising these shelves somehow

Their capacity is fine under normal usage.  Raise em if you want, but I wouldn't call it a performance improvement.  👍

 

On 9/9/2019 at 4:45 AM, Ratvan said:

space that I want to give to rock work (about 40%)

40% isn't too bad, but since you're worried about having too little....

 

I generally recommend no more than 1/3 full to allow swimming room and room for flow.

 

The more filled the tank is, the more turbulence there is. 

 

The more turbulence there is, the less flow there will be.

 

The less flow there is, the more detritus settling there will be.

 

1/3 full usually amounts to about a pound of rock per gallon.  (about .12 kg/Liter?)

 

On 9/10/2019 at 4:11 AM, Ratvan said:

I am currently thinking of filling the back chamber/s with Live Rock Rubble and/or a Ceramic Media Brick.

Unnecessary since you have plenty of rock in the display where it's actually needed.  And adding these may even cause problems.  Bio-bricks are known to leach aluminum in addition to the functional problems associated.

 

On 9/24/2019 at 6:26 PM, Ratvan said:

Im thinking two weeks between additions?

That's abut right, or even a bit short, for adding fish.

 

Corals don't have much impact on the bio-load since they're primarily nutrient recyclers.  

 

If you're confident in your ability to test and dose, and you're ready to compensate for using dead rock (may need added phosphate, nitrate, pods, phyto, et al.) I wouldn't worry too much about adding them at once.  It'll be a larger inoculation of good microbes for the tank and thus the tank will be more ready for fish when they finally arrive.

 

On 9/27/2019 at 10:08 AM, StinkyBunny said:

I don't think anyone in the USA has any live rock other than the Florida mined crap or man made, neither of which I will use.

The aquaculture outfits may be the main source of real live rock here now.  Now positive.  It's cheap compared to dead rock, but only better by an infinitely large margin.  😉 

 

As for the hair algae problems, they were probably related to the imbalance of P to N along with the overall lack of microbial diversity from using dead rock. 

 

Bare aragonite is as good at binding phosphates as GFO....it could be used in place of GFO.  So it's naturally going to be a reserve of phosphates for anything that can actually use them in bound form.

 

Corals can't use up phosphates in that form. 

 

But green algae (hair, bubble, et al.) have no problems using it there. 

 

With nothing to compete for the space OR nutrients, you get an awesome green algae bloom.

 

Maintaining nutrient balance via dosing liquid nutrients would help. 

 

Inoculating the tank better would help....consider a scoop of sand or detritus from a healthy tank. 

 

Being aggressive with manual removal of the algae and early ramp-up of the cleanup crew would probably be the most help.

 

On 9/27/2019 at 8:07 AM, Ratvan said:

I am after a particular shape

DIY rock is probably the best way to get that.  There are plenty of instructions for sand-casting "live rock" out there, and the procedure is pretty well established.  @paul B has made and used it for years.  Garf.org should still have their guide....think they were the first place I saw it.

 

On 9/27/2019 at 10:44 AM, Ratvan said:

I can get either Dry rock (no good shapes) or "Live" rock which again poor shapes and fairly certain is just dry rock painted purple at the minute

Seems like that would be worth confirming if you aren't sure.  But if each rock is all purple, then you're probably right.   

 

Coralline grows in patches.   Which can be simulated in paint too, but it's not too common.

 

Get a larger size of live rock and break it down/sculpt it to the shape you want. 

 

Even if it's not real live rock from the ocean, it should be better than starting from absolute scratch.

 

(Still like the DIY idea better, if you could do it, since you get exactly what you want that way.)

 

On 9/27/2019 at 10:58 AM, billygoat said:

a Eunicid worm that eats my macros

There are some lookalikes since that's a large family of worms.  I think the famous one ("Bobbit Worm") is from Austalia.

 

I take it you've seen him eating algae? 

 

Get a pic? 

 

Cuz I would peg them for either a meat eater or carrion eater.....but if they eat algae that would change the whole view of these worms to our hobby!!

 

Considering their rarity, our fear of them is super irrational.  But if we have them figured wrong as a meat/carrion eater then that makes our collective fear just crazy. 😉 

 

 

[Ratvan]

13 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Their capacity is fine under normal usage.  Raise em if you want, but I wouldn't call it a performance improvement.  👍

 

40% isn't too bad, but since you're worried about having too little....

 

I generally recommend no more than 1/3 full to allow swimming room and room for flow.

 

The more filled the tank is, the more turbulence there is. 

 

The more turbulence there is, the less flow there will be.

 

The less flow there is, the more detritus settling there will be.

 

1/3 full usually amounts to about a pound of rock per gallon.  (about .12 kg/Liter?)

 

Unnecessary since you have plenty of rock in the display where it's actually needed.  And adding these may even cause problems.  Bio-bricks are known to leach aluminum in addition to the functional problems associated.

 

That's abut right, or even a bit short, for adding fish.

 

Corals don't have much impact on the bio-load since they're primarily nutrient recyclers.  

 

If you're confident in your ability to test and dose, and you're ready to compensate for using dead rock (may need added phosphate, nitrate, pods, phyto, et al.) I wouldn't worry too much about adding them at once.  It'll be a larger inoculation of good microbes for the tank and thus the tank will be more ready for fish when they finally arrive.

 

The aquaculture outfits may be the main source of real live rock here now.  Now positive.  It's cheap compared to dead rock, but only better by an infinitely large margin.  😉 

 

As for the hair algae problems, they were probably related to the imbalance of P to N along with the overall lack of microbial diversity from using dead rock. 

 

Bare aragonite is as good at binding phosphates as GFO....it could be used in place of GFO.  So it's naturally going to be a reserve of phosphates for anything that can actually use them in bound form.

 

Corals can't use up phosphates in that form. 

 

But green algae (hair, bubble, et al.) have no problems using it there. 

 

With nothing to compete for the space OR nutrients, you get an awesome green algae bloom.

 

Maintaining nutrient balance via dosing liquid nutrients would help. 

 

Inoculating the tank better would help....consider a scoop of sand or detritus from a healthy tank. 

 

Being aggressive with manual removal of the algae and early ramp-up of the cleanup crew would probably be the most help.

 

DIY rock is probably the best way to get that.  There are plenty of instructions for sand-casting "live rock" out there, and the procedure is pretty well established.  @paul B has made and used it for years.  Garf.org should still have their guide....think they were the first place I saw it.

 

Seems like that would be worth confirming if you aren't sure.  But if each rock is all purple, then you're probably right.   

 

Coralline grows in patches.   Which can be simulated in paint too, but it's not too common.

 

Get a larger size of live rock and break it down/sculpt it to the shape you want. 

 

Even if it's not real live rock from the ocean, it should be better than starting from absolute scratch.

 

(Still like the DIY idea better, if you could do it, since you get exactly what you want that way.)

 

There are some lookalikes since that's a large family of worms.  I think the famous one ("Bobbit Worm") is from Austalia.

 

I take it you've seen him eating algae? 

 

Get a pic? 

 

Cuz I would peg them for either a meat eater or carrion eater.....but if they eat algae that would change the whole view of these worms to our hobby!!

 

Considering their rarity, our fear of them is super irrational.  But if we have them figured wrong as a meat/carrion eater then that makes our collective fear just crazy. 😉 

 

 

Sorry @mcarroll, had to wait till the morning to actually read this. A lot of information to take in, many thanks. 

 

I am worried about finding suitable rock, I dont want to waste money on the build so not purchasing anything unless it is correct. I am struggling however and think that instead of searching for one big piece of rock I might have to get small rocks and assemble into the end shape I want, not really ideal but a way forwards. I want a single column that I can build the corals out from.  I think that actually this maybe pretty minimal. 

 

Regarding the aluminium, I take this is anecdotal evidence from this site and others? Genuinely interested in seeing the problems that people have had with this and what they have done to resolve any issues. I wonder how much is actually present. 

 

Two weeks between additions was for Corals, fish additions can take place once I have the QT housed and set up, I will be doing a "extended" quarantine, not a prophylactic QT this time around and keep fish under observation for 3-4 weeks, depending on whether any issues present themselves. Obviously if something is spotted I can treat in QT. 😄

I didn't want to add corals too quickly, made that mistake before but i guess that was more to do with the Swings in the 2.5g, also have been having a LOT of issues with pests so want to take it slow as I can only REALLY do maintenance before or after work or at lunch.

 

Regarding the CUC, I am a little more excited about them this time around as I can keep more and different species. I will still most likely go for all snails except Cerith (Not Indo Pacific) on the plus side I have located a healthy source of detritus eaters in Stomatella Snails.

 

RE: The purple rocks. It is a single shade of purple so have assumed that it is paint/dye etc. Doesn't look to porous if i am being honest. But then I have no idea really without cracking it open and having a look. 

 

Again thank you for taking the time for such a detailed response 

  

 

[Ratvan]

Well not done much of this for a while

[mcarroll]

6 hours ago, Ratvan said:

Regarding the aluminium, I take this is anecdotal evidence from this site and others? Genuinely interested in seeing the problems that people have had with this and what they have done to resolve any issues. I wonder how much is actually present. 

Yes.  It shows up on folks' Triton test results all the time as a Red Flag.  (That is not a suggestion for Triton testing..just saying what you'll find out there for example.)  That's eminently googleable since it's a problem widely encountered with this media.

 

The main point is how unnecessary the extra bio-media is though.   

 

If you do add it, I would wait until AFTER the tank has matured and you know for sure it's needed.   

 

Adding it at the beginning is taking an unnecessary risk (if minor one) and it's functionally overkill since the rock in the tank (live or not) is better-siuted for the purpose, and completely adequate to it.  (Using more dead or live rock in the filtration unit would be much preferable, but don't do that either.)

 

As I said, I recommend the tank to be about 1/3 full of live rock at most.   The Reef Aquarium Vol 1 by Delbeek and Sprung (which I just got recently and have never read until a chapter last night) backs me up in recommending only 1/4-1/13 full.  They emphasize not thinking about weight since rock can have a variety of densities.

 

6 hours ago, Ratvan said:

I didn't want to add corals too quickly, made that mistake before but i guess that was more to do with the Swings in the 2.5g, also have been having a LOT of issues with pests so want to take it slow as I can only REALLY do maintenance before or after work or at lunch.

Buying a ton of frags online is another unnecessary risk, you are correct.   You would be FAR better off buying corals one or two at a time locally.

 

6 hours ago, Ratvan said:

Regarding the CUC, I am a little more excited about them this time around as I can keep more and different species. I will still most likely go for all snails except Cerith (Not Indo Pacific) on the plus side I have located a healthy source of detritus eaters in Stomatella Snails.

Stomatella's are algae eaters.  I've never seen them for sale though, only as a hitchhiker on Pacific rock.

 

Ceriths are dual-function in that they'll burrow in the sand and graze algae off the rocks and glass.  They're my favorite...but I'm not exclusive. 😉 

 

Astreas, Trochus and Turbo's are the workhorses...in ascending order of size.

 

Nassarius are the ones typically employed as detritavores, but they aren't.  They and hermit crabs are carrion eaters in the wild and they share habitat. 

 

Ceriths are in that environment too, but not as carrion eaters. 

 

Crabs (incl. hermits), as we know, are always omnivores in spite of any tendencies they have, hence their predilection for eating algae or anything else in the tank.  Only the smallest hermits (blue-legs) will put any significant focus on algae eating IMO....and it's nothing compared to what a real herbivore would do.  I keep hermits to a minimum.

 

6 hours ago, Ratvan said:

RE: The purple rocks. It is a single shade of purple so have assumed that it is paint/dye etc. Doesn't look to porous if i am being honest. But then I have no idea really without cracking it open and having a look. 

Chances are it's porous....it would have to be sealed somehow.  Porous isn't that much of a stretch.   Live is the stretch.  😉 

 

What do you think of the DIY rock option?

 

http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/paul-baldassano-40-year-old-saltwater-aquarium-3078/

(the DIY rock link is in that article) under the Overview section.  Great tank (totally unique!), great story, interesting dude, BTW.   He's got a book too. (Got it.)

[Ratvan]

21 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Yes.  It shows up on folks' Triton test results all the time as a Red Flag.  (That is not a suggestion for Triton testing..just saying what you'll find out there for example.)  That's eminently googleable since it's a problem widely encountered with this media.

 

The main point is how unnecessary the extra bio-media is though.   

 

If you do add it, I would wait until AFTER the tank has matured and you know for sure it's needed.   

 

Adding it at the beginning is taking an unnecessary risk (if minor one) and it's functionally overkill since the rock in the tank (live or not) is better-siuted for the purpose, and completely adequate to it.  (Using more dead or live rock in the filtration unit would be much preferable, but don't do that either.)

 

As I said, I recommend the tank to be about 1/3 full of live rock at most.   The Reef Aquarium Vol 1 by Delbeek and Sprung (which I just got recently and have never read until a chapter last night) backs me up in recommending only 1/4-1/13 full.  They emphasize not thinking about weight since rock can have a variety of densities.

 

Buying a ton of frags online is another unnecessary risk, you are correct.   You would be FAR better off buying corals one or two at a time locally.

 

Stomatella's are algae eaters.  I've never seen them for sale though, only as a hitchhiker on Pacific rock.

 

Ceriths are dual-function in that they'll burrow in the sand and graze algae off the rocks and glass.  They're my favorite...but I'm not exclusive. 😉 

 

Astreas, Trochus and Turbo's are the workhorses...in ascending order of size.

 

Nassarius are the ones typically employed as detritavores, but they aren't.  They and hermit crabs are carrion eaters in the wild and they share habitat. 

 

Ceriths are in that environment too, but not as carrion eaters. 

 

Crabs (incl. hermits), as we know, are always omnivores in spite of any tendencies they have, hence their predilection for eating algae or anything else in the tank.  Only the smallest hermits (blue-legs) will put any significant focus on algae eating IMO....and it's nothing compared to what a real herbivore would do.  I keep hermits to a minimum.

 

Chances are it's porous....it would have to be sealed somehow.  Porous isn't that much of a stretch.   Live is the stretch.  😉 

 

What do you think of the DIY rock option?

 

http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/paul-baldassano-40-year-old-saltwater-aquarium-3078/

(the DIY rock link is in that article) under the Overview section.  Great tank (totally unique!), great story, interesting dude, BTW.   He's got a book too. (Got it.)

I'm actually reading up on the Triton method myself at the moment and wondering if it would be worth it to use on my home reef if and when I eventually am allowed one.

 

Well so far I have roughly 20lbs of sand and 20lbs of "Cycled" Rock and a single bag (400g) of Bio Spheres that I seeded in my 5.5G for a week (well 10 days total), only running the heater and a single wavemaker at the minute. When the water clears a bit more I'll photograph the rock and you can see the purple painted rock. To be honest I just want to get this sorted, cycled and transferred before Christmas. After that I can play with my "perfect" scape. 

 

I've actually started a DIY Rock system at home that I will be working on, it fits inside a 5G bucket so I can cycle it when it is done and add to the tank

[mcarroll]

11 minutes ago, Ratvan said:

I'm actually reading up on the Triton method myself at the moment and wondering if it would be worth it to use on my home reef if and when I eventually am allowed one.

ICP testing is interesting if not all that useful, but the "method" as the call it seems problematic and mostly just trendy to me....one branch of the mostly-useless ULNS trend....which is at the forefront of the dino trend.  NO.  THANK.  YOU.   😄

 

IMO you'd be much better off getting a new reefing book and learning what it has to teach instead....or even an old reefing book!

 

How many books do you have so far?  Any good ones you like more than the others?

[Ratvan]

1 minute ago, mcarroll said:

ICP testing is interesting if not all that useful, but the "method" as the call it seems problematic and mostly just trendy to me....one branch of the mostly-useless ULNS trend....which is at the forefront of the dino trend.  NO.  THANK.  YOU.   😄

 

IMO you'd be much better off getting a new reefing book and learning what it has to teach instead....or even an old reefing book!

 

How many books do you have so far?  Any good ones you like more than the others?

I have a few different books, not sure how many or what they are to be honest. Not had the mental capacity to be able to read at the moment. A couple spring to mind though

 

The Coral reef Aquarium: From Inception to Completion: 

The Marine Aquarium Handbook: Beginner to Breeder: 

[mcarroll]

(Ok...that post auto-saved somehow while I was typing that smiley.   DoubleU-tee-eff?  lol)

 

Here's some suggestions:

Martin Moe:  

These should be the first reef books everyone gets IMO.

• Marine Aquarium Handbook Beginner to Breeder
• The Marine Fish Health and Feeding Handbook

 

Eric Borneman

• Aquarium Corals

 

John Tullock:

• Natural Reef Aquariums

Robert Fenner

 

• The Conscientious Marine Aquarist

 

Dana Riddle

• The Captive Reef

 

Robert Straughan

• The Salt-Water Aquarium In the Home

 

Of course the three mega series' by:

Fossa and Nilsen

Delbeek and Sprung

Debelius and Baensh

 

 

You already have a couple of good ones then!   

 

Triton reading cam be supplanted (and surpassed) by either one.  🙂

 

[StinkyBunny]

I ran the bio cubes in my 130D, I'd recommend you do the same. There has been all kinds of "anecdotal" evidence on the Al release, none of which I believe. There was a guy on one forum that did experiments on it and it took a pH of 4.5 to make the ceramic media release harmful amounts of aluminum, something we don't have to worry about in a marine system. I'll look on my other computer and see if I can find the thread. I know there was a HUGE stink about it over on R2R a few years ago, that's probably where I saw it. If you're worried about heavy metals, throw a 1/2 of a Poly Filter in there just to be sure, I use them on all my marine systems.

[Ratvan]

Ok so I do have a mini cycle, which i s what i assumed due to me being now very suspicious of anything that is claimed to be "live"

 

Thinking Friday if everything matches up for the transfer. 

 

 

Bit cloudy as added large rock, barnacles etc etc.

 

Bodged Output Nozzle is working well, need a small amount of plumbers tape to seal off the tiny gap in the bulkhead

[Ratvan]

So I am planning on starting the Aquascape today, having thinking about it would probably be best if I delay the transfer until Monday. That way I dont leave the "new" system unattended with all my livestock for a weekend. Also need to figure out what my Evaporation will be like on this system as i dont want it running dry. 

 

 

I still have more barnacles to add, as well as the rocks from the smaller systems.

A Nice comparison shot of the 5.5G Cube I can actually raise my light enough to affect both tanks (PAR Reading is not great however)

The heater will be moved to teh back chamber as soon as I figure out how I can keep the level higher in this section, I got a few days to play and in no rush to remove all equipment from the DT

[Ratvan]

Hmmmmmmm seem to be cycled.....

 

Nitrates seem to be reducing as well (after going up) dont want them too low, might have to yank those Bio Balls if it Zero's out

 

Bit dusty but got the basic shape in, now i'll work on bulking this out with the rocks from the smaller tanks (after a thorough clean) 

 

Will see how it looks tomorrow, i'll epoxy the Frag Plug Holders over the barnacles to form a shelf for corals to live. 

I've secured the main rock via a series of PVC pipes, I have cable tied the rock to this and built up further support under the sand with small rocks and coral skeletons, want to add a few more PVC hides that I can cover with rock 

[DSFIRSTSLTWATER]

3 hours ago, Ratvan said:

So I am planning on starting the Aquascape today, having thinking about it would probably be best if I delay the transfer until Monday. That way I dont leave the "new" system unattended with all my livestock for a weekend. Also need to figure out what my Evaporation will be like on this system as i dont want it running dry. 

 

 

I still have more barnacles to add, as well as the rocks from the smaller systems.

A Nice comparison shot of the 5.5G Cube I can actually raise my light enough to affect both tanks (PAR Reading is not great however)

The heater will be moved to teh back chamber as soon as I figure out how I can keep the level higher in this section, I got a few days to play and in no rush to remove all equipment from the DT

Gonna be looking really good once it's filled up

[Ratvan]

3 minutes ago, DSFIRSTSLTWATER said:

Gonna be looking really good once it's filled up

Thank you, I hope i don't disappoint.

Its taking longer than I would have liked for sure, but at least I am getting closer to the look that I want 

thrown in some of my Gracilaria and Codium Algae, also tried a "sacrificial" Xenia Frag, (the same one I have "killed" about 4 times now) 

 

Wondering if an Algae scrubber would be a good addition (i'm looking at my Reefing supplies and tidying up)

 

[seabass]

1 hour ago, Ratvan said:

Hmmmmmmm seem to be cycled.....

Ammonia levels are still high, but the presence of nitrate show that the process is coming along nicely. 👍

[DSFIRSTSLTWATER]

32 minutes ago, Ratvan said:

Thank you, I hope i don't disappoint.

Its taking longer than I would have liked for sure, but at least I am getting closer to the look that I want 

thrown in some of my Gracilaria and Codium Algae, also tried a "sacrificial" Xenia Frag, (the same one I have "killed" about 4 times now) 

 

Wondering if an Algae scrubber would be a good addition (i'm looking at my Reefing supplies and tidying up)

 

Ehh slow is good. No need to rush things. I think you'll do a great job

[kimberbee]

49 minutes ago, Ratvan said:

Wondering if an Algae scrubber would be a good addition (i'm looking at my Reefing supplies and tidying up)

Maybe eventually, but not right away.

 

I've always considered adding a cheato reactor/basket but haven't actually ever done it. Sure, I get periods of hair algae on my rocks, but I get worried adding anything to my tank like that could upset the balance more than it's worth. It's another thing that can fail and make a mess.