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Ratvan

Ratvan's RSM 130D (Blue Star Leopard Wrasse - 14.10.2019)

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Snow_Phoenix
2 hours ago, StinkyBunny said:

They come from Indonesia and they still catch quite a few fish using cyanide. Things to look for are vivid coloration as well as very red gills.

Sorry to hijack this thread, @Ratvan, but one quick question @StinkyBunny - are these symptoms the same for all fish caught using cyanide, including wrasses? The red gills and vivid colors? Is there anything else to look out for?

 

 

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StinkyBunny
2 minutes ago, Snow_Phoenix said:

Sorry to hijack this thread, @Ratvan, but one quick question @StinkyBunny - are these symptoms the same for all fish caught using cyanide, including wrasses? The red gills and vivid colors? Is there anything else to look out for?

 

 

Yes. Sometimes after they've shipped for 20-30 hours their gills are red when they arrive to me from ammonia, but 1 day later they should have faded. If a fish shows up to you after shipping and the colour is vivid there's a damn good chance it's cyanide caught. Indonesia is getting better, but Bali and Jakarta are still the leaders in cyanide caught fish. It's no coincidence that they're also quite cheap in comparison to other countries and wholesalers buy up those grenades all the time.  In the last 10 years The Philippines have really cleaned up their act in regards to cyanide collection. RVS and Cebu Aquatics are my go to places there for quality fish.

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Ratvan

@Snow_Phoenix  its an interesting question and I'm sure many of us would be grateful for an answer. Hijack away

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Ratvan
1 minute ago, StinkyBunny said:

Yes. Sometimes after they've shipped for 20-30 hours their gills are red when they arrive to me from ammonia, but 1 day later they should have faded. If a fish shows up to you after shipping and the colour is vivid there's a damn good chance it's cyanide caught. Indonesia is getting better, but Bali and Jakarta are still the leaders in cyanide caught fish. It's no coincidence that they're also quite cheap in comparison to other countries and wholesalers buy up those grenades all the time.  In the last 10 years The Philippines have really cleaned up their act in regards to cyanide collection. RVS and Cebu Aquatics are my go to places there for quality fish.

I know quite a few transshipping companies that deal with Betta fish, would it be worth speaking to them about the possibility of shipping a marine fish direct from here? I mean I would have the same issues, relying on decent clear photographs and then fingers crossed for collection?

 

What are the long term affects of cyanide catching a fish out of interest?  

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StinkyBunny
34 minutes ago, Ratvan said:

I know quite a few transshipping companies that deal with Betta fish, would it be worth speaking to them about the possibility of shipping a marine fish direct from here? I mean I would have the same issues, relying on decent clear photographs and then fingers crossed for collection?

 

What are the long term affects of cyanide catching a fish out of interest?  

Be VERY careful with transshipping out of Indo, you have been warned. There are more unscrupulous exporters there than just about anywhere else in the world.

 

As for the long term affects of cyanide? Death within 6 months. The only test as of right now is removing the liver and having that tested. It's a horrible way to go, you eat and still lose weight because most of the food passes through you undigested.

 

 Back to Indo collectors and fish. NEVER, EVER buy a Powder Blue tang unless you know where it came from. If the dealer can't tell you where it cam from pass. If it came from Bali, pass on it, it'll be dead within 6 months. Ones out of Sri Lanka or Africa are the ones you want. I have 3 that I've had for over 5 years, 2 from Sri Lanka and 1 from Kenya. I try to give people info to take with them so they don't get duped. Dealers buy cheap fish, keep the price the same and pocket the profit. I can't blame them, but I couldn't sleep at night if I did that to people.

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Snow_Phoenix
57 minutes ago, StinkyBunny said:

Be VERY careful with transshipping out of Indo, you have been warned. There are more unscrupulous exporters there than just about anywhere else in the world.

 

As for the long term affects of cyanide? Death within 6 months. The only test as of right now is removing the liver and having that tested. It's a horrible way to go, you eat and still lose weight because most of the food passes through you undigested.

 

 Back to Indo collectors and fish. NEVER, EVER buy a Powder Blue tang unless you know where it came from. If the dealer can't tell you where it cam from pass. If it came from Bali, pass on it, it'll be dead within 6 months. Ones out of Sri Lanka or Africa are the ones you want. I have 3 that I've had for over 5 years, 2 from Sri Lanka and 1 from Kenya. I try to give people info to take with them so they don't get duped. Dealers buy cheap fish, keep the price the same and pocket the profit. I can't blame them, but I couldn't sleep at night if I did that to people.

StinkyBunny, if a fish has been caught with cyanide - is there absolutely no chance of recovery from the cyanide or longevity in the tank? Meaning - any fish caught using this method will die eventually, no matter how well it looks for now in QT/reeftank?

 

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StinkyBunny
8 minutes ago, Snow_Phoenix said:

StinkyBunny, if a fish has been caught with cyanide - is there absolutely no chance of recovery from the cyanide or longevity in the tank? Meaning - any fish caught using this method will die eventually, no matter how well it looks for now in QT/reeftank?

 

It's dose dependent, I would imagine a low dose would be survivable, high dose fatal within a few months. We had a Marine Betta a few years ago that was doing great for about a year and she up and died suddenly. Never lost weight, ate quite well so it didn't dawn on me until I took her liver to university and tested it. It tested 5 times higher than normal for cyanide. Cyanide kills 90+% of the time. I'm not saying that all will, but most will. 

 

  What needs to happen is there needs to be an instant test for cyanide and the countries that are known to collect with it need to have the money paid to the collectors put in escrow. If your shipment tests clean, you get the money, dirty you get no money. That would stop the majority of it from happening.

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Tamberav

This place transships fish: http://livestockusa.org/

 

It's not worth it for a nano obviously as you need to put in a big order to make up for losses.... cheap fish... high shipping cost. Saw someone use this service... ordered 26 fish... 15 made the trip. Prices were low though... $2 moorish idol... $40 pintail and so on. The fish they lost were mostly the cheap 0.40 cent chromis (and the moorish idols ofc) so it worked out for them.  

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Tamberav

Love the leopard btw! I keep a blue star, coris, jawfish and an fathead anthia in a 25g. Never had any issues with the sand sleepers and jawfish. They get along great! 

 

I will say my leopard is a lot more active and pretty crazy vs my coris. She will make runs back and forth along the glass when she is excited, can't wait to get her in the 80g. The coris is more deliberate in what she is doing, slowly moving through the tank inspecting for pods. 

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StinkyBunny

 

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Tamberav

Rude ass goby! 

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DSFIRSTSLTWATER
1 minute ago, Tamberav said:

Rude ass goby! 

That would be actually pretty awesome to have going on in my own system :lol:. I would literally watch that all day

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StinkyBunny
53 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

This place transships fish: http://livestockusa.org/

 

It's not worth it for a nano obviously as you need to put in a big order to make up for losses.... cheap fish... high shipping cost. Saw someone use this service... ordered 26 fish... 15 made the trip. Prices were low though... $2 moorish idol... $40 pintail and so on. The fish they lost were mostly the cheap 0.40 cent chromis (and the moorish idols ofc) so it worked out for them.  

People generally aren't set up for transshipping. Not only do you have to take into account the time to even unpack one box you have to have the proper biological filtration in place to handle the increased bio load. I use fluidized beds on my systems because they react so fast and eliminate ammonia quickly. 15 out of 26 is horrible.

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Ratvan

Also they seem to only deliver to LAX. Might as well still be in Asia for me lol

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StinkyBunny
43 minutes ago, Ratvan said:

Also they seem to only deliver to LAX. Might as well still be in Asia for me lol

Exporting to you is a whole nother kettle of fish so to speak. I just looked at the amount of forms I have to fill out and it's a goddamn metric shittonne. The lure of cheap fish is fine IF you have the facility in place months ahead of time to deal with what's coming. If you don't, you stand to lose 50+% of what you bought negating any money you'd have saved. Figure a 90 gallon tank for each box except for The Philippines which will require 2 because they ship in a double box and the fish count can be as high as 150 pieces. Sri Lanka averages about 20, Indo 40ish, it all depends on the size of the fish.

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Dirté Sanchez
3 hours ago, StinkyBunny said:

It's dose dependent, I would imagine a low dose would be survivable, high dose fatal within a few months. We had a Marine Betta a few years ago that was doing great for about a year and she up and died suddenly. Never lost weight, ate quite well so it didn't dawn on me until I took her liver to university and tested it. It tested 5 times higher than normal for cyanide. Cyanide kills 90+% of the time. I'm not saying that all will, but most will. 

 

  What needs to happen is there needs to be an instant test for cyanide and the countries that are known to collect with it need to have the money paid to the collectors put in escrow. If your shipment tests clean, you get the money, dirty you get no money. That would stop the majority of it from happening.

You know so much about the cyanide.... you grinding peach pits over there???

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Tamberav
1 hour ago, StinkyBunny said:

People generally aren't set up for transshipping. Not only do you have to take into account the time to even unpack one box you have to have the proper biological filtration in place to handle the increased bio load. I use fluidized beds on my systems because they react so fast and eliminate ammonia quickly. 15 out of 26 is horrible.

He had a cycled system ready to go and seems the ones that arrived alive made it, those were DOA. Lost all the chromis and Moorish idols but the wrasses made it. 

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StinkyBunny
22 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

He had a cycled system ready to go and seems the ones that arrived alive made it, those were DOA. Lost all the chromis and Moorish idols but the wrasses made it. 

That's really odd, what country did he order from? Chromis are hit or miss, usually 20 or so percent losses and I haven't lost a Moorish Idol in over a year. I can't get a damn CBA here alive from Fiji.

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Tamberav
3 minutes ago, StinkyBunny said:

That's really odd, what country did he order from? Chromis are hit or miss, usually 20 or so percent losses and I haven't lost a Moorish Idol in over a year. I can't get a damn CBA here alive from Fiji.

I want to say Philippines

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Dirté Sanchez
11 minutes ago, StinkyBunny said:

That's really odd, what country did he order from? Chromis are hit or miss, usually 20 or so percent losses and I haven't lost a Moorish Idol in over a year. I can't get a damn CBA here alive from Fiji.

Could that be what killed my CBA? I didn’t find a mark on him and that’s about right- exactly six months in to owning him

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StinkyBunny
7 hours ago, Dirté Sanchez said:

Could that be what killed my CBA? I didn’t find a mark on him and that’s about right- exactly six months in to owning him

Depends on his colour. The lighter ones are usually from Fiji, darker from Indo/Philippines. I meant that I can get them here alive. If I get them alive I'm good to go. I have one from my guy in Manado that came in the first shipment 6 years ago.

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Dirté Sanchez
2 minutes ago, StinkyBunny said:

Depends on his colour. The lighter ones are usually from Fiji, darker from Indo/Philippines. I meant that I can get them here alive. If I get them alive I'm good to go. I have one from my guy in Manado that came in the first shipment 6 years ago.

He was a dark angle with very little orange to him. At any rate, it remains a mystery. I miss him, but the current tank occupants don’t seem to. More room I guess.

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StinkyBunny
7 minutes ago, Dirté Sanchez said:

He was a dark angle with very little orange to him. At any rate, it remains a mystery. I miss him, but the current tank occupants don’t seem to. More room I guess.

Probably from Bali and cyanide caught. I spend the extra $.50-$1 to get a better fish elsewhere. I love Philippines CBAs.

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Dirté Sanchez
19 minutes ago, StinkyBunny said:

Probably from Bali and cyanide caught. I spend the extra $.50-$1 to get a better fish elsewhere. I love Philippines CBAs.

I’d like to think someday we could

get another one or a flame, but I’m afraid to right now after that potter died right after going in the tank. He didn’t have just a ton of oomph to begin with but I worry my tank killed him. Nothing else has been unhappy through. 

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