Cyano - Using Chemi Clean?

[Daniel91]

I’ve been dealing with a “small” amount of cyano for some time and now at the point, where I really need to introduce something I initially did not want to - chemicals.

The cyano is starting to cover corals and stressing them out. There is still plenty of growth but it’s not optimal.

 

I’ve tried everything; increased flow, minimized feeding, extra waterchanges etc. 

My PO4 have been around 0.04 and NO3 at 5-10 throughout the last month and it is still getting worse.

 

So question - besides follow directions of the packet, any tips or advise?

[seabass]

7 hours ago, Daniel91 said:

any tips or advise?

Remove as much as possible prior to treatment.

[Tamberav]

21 minutes ago, seabass said:

Remove as much as possible prior to treatment.

+1 and add air stones.

[Daniel91]

Thanks - i did remove a lot, but here is just an example of what it has done to my Coral:

 

 

 

[mcarroll]

On 9/5/2019 at 11:02 AM, Daniel91 said:

That looks like cyano moving in after die-off.  This is pretty common in the scheme of things.

 

Usually from starvation or die-off from otherwise being tweaked.

 

That leaves the question of why there would be starvation of die-off.....which you (or we) can usually answer!  🙂 

 

Treating the tank is only a short-term solution IF it even works on the cyano you have....it's not universally effective.  Cyano is in the air, so more than likely it will be back even if you do eradicate it since conditions in the tank are clearly favoring it at the moment.

 

If you can before doing a treatment:

 

What are your tank's nitrate and phosphates levels like?

 

How old is this tank?

 

How long ago did the cyano show up?

 

Was there a change in the tank that corresponded with the appearance of the cyano?

 

What is the tank's filtration and water change and cleaning schedule like?

[Daniel91]

42 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

That looks like cyano moving in after die-off.  This is pretty common in the scheme of things.

 

Usually from starvation or die-off from otherwise being tweaked.

 

That leaves the question of why there would be starvation of die-off.....which you (or we) can usually answer!  🙂 

 

Treating the tank is only a short-term solution IF it even works on the cyano you have....it's not universally effective.  Cyano is in the air, so more than likely it will be back even if you do eradicate it since conditions in the tank are clearly favoring it at the moment.

 

If you can before doing a treatment:

 

What are your tank's nitrate and phosphates levels like?

5-10 and 0.04

42 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

How old is this tank?

A little over a year

42 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

How long ago did the cyano show up?

Maybe a month ago?

42 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Was there a change in the tank that corresponded with the appearance of the cyano?

Not that I can recall unfortunately 

42 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

 

What is the tank's filtration and water change and cleaning schedule like?

It’s an IM10, so I run floss / carbon in the sump and do a weekly WC of 20%, with a 3 week vacuuming of the sump.

Sand is vacuumed weekly.

 

 

[mcarroll]

Seems like you could easy up on the cleanings.....as long as there was no specific reason for them, such as food accumulating on the sand, etc.  Detritus is generally your tank and your corals' friend.  It can get out of control like anything, but that doesn't make it bad.  It's an excellent reserve source of phosphates and alkainity.  If you have good enough flow in the tank to keep it from settling (not always easy depending on the tank), it's also about the best coral food there is.

 

Do you have much/any coraline or green algae growth?   Or only cyano?

 

IMO is seems like these corals should be recovering from whatever it was that tweaked them......but depending on the tweak, sometimes that recovery takes a LONG time....and sometimes recovery doesn't happen.

 

As long as overall conditions are good -- good strong flow, near-NSW water chemistry, available, non-zero nutrient levels, etc -- there's no reason the coral won't heal up and grow over that spot or for the the cyano not to self-resolve once the dead coral tissue in the skeleton is all gone.

 

But as long as "what happened" to set this off in the first place is a mystery, all we can really do is guess....it's possible that coral will keep fading due to prior stress and not due to current conditions.

 

By any chance has alkalinity or salinity had a significant swing, maybe in the process of one or more of the water changes....or the ATO functioning....or...?

[Daniel91]

10 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Seems like you could easy up on the cleanings.....as long as there was no specific reason for them, such as food accumulating on the sand, etc.  Detritus is generally your tank and your corals' friend.  It can get out of control like anything, but that doesn't make it bad.  It's an excellent reserve source of phosphates and alkainity.  If you have good enough flow in the tank to keep it from settling (not always easy depending on the tank), it's also about the best coral food there is.

 

Do you have much/any coraline or green algae growth?   Or only cyano?

 

IMO is seems like these corals should be recovering from whatever it was that tweaked them......but depending on the tweak, sometimes that recovery takes a LONG time....and sometimes recovery doesn't happen.

 

As long as overall conditions are good -- good strong flow, near-NSW water chemistry, available, non-zero nutrient levels, etc -- there's no reason the coral won't heal up and grow over that spot or for the the cyano not to self-resolve once the dead coral tissue in the skeleton is all gone.

 

But as long as "what happened" to set this off in the first place is a mystery, all we can really do is guess....it's possible that coral will keep fading due to prior stress and not due to current conditions.

 

By any chance has alkalinity or salinity had a significant swing, maybe in the process of one or more of the water changes....or the ATO functioning....or...?

Appreciate the feedback as I troubleshoot.

 

I do believe that a minor salinity swing could’ve occurred - I found my salinity at 0.023 a few weeks back (die-off & cyano had already occurred) and I very slowly brought it to 0.025. Everything seemed happy and healthy.

I will not assume but think that could be it.

[banasophia]

Chemiclean worked for my tank a few months ago... I used per directions on package... as others mentioned, be sure to add an air stone. 

[seabass]

The thing about ChemiClean is that it should be used only after you have addressed the main cause of cyano (which is organics).  There are a number of ways to address this (careful feeding, sand bed maintenance, flow w/ mechanical filtration, protein skimming, etc).  After the casuse has been properly addressed, then you can use ChemiClean to help knock it out; otherwise, it will return fairly quickly.  If you don't think of ChemiClean as a replacement for good husbandry, it can be an effective tool in your arsenal (not to be over relied upon).

[mcarroll]

Agreed. Definitely follow the directions to a tee if you do treat the tank with something like Chemiclean.  It's capable of nuking your tank if used wrong.  (So are lots of things...not a dig on the tool, just true.)

 

34 minutes ago, Daniel91 said:

Appreciate the feedback as I troubleshoot.

 

I do believe that a minor salinity swing could’ve occurred - I found my salinity at 0.023 a few weeks back (die-off & cyano had already occurred) and I very slowly brought it to 0.025. Everything seemed happy and healthy.

I will not assume but think that could be it.

 

Corals like the one you pictured are definitely sensitive to things like alkalinity and salinity swings.  

 

IMO you've nailed it. 

 

(If there are other areas with significant growth besides the die-off on the corals can you please post pictures of them too?) 

 

There's still no telling if the coral will recover – I have had encrusting Monti frag's cave for similar reasons.  Takes them a while.

 

I was not in a position to experiment meaningfully with coral feedings and we weren't so aware of dissolved nutrient issues back in those days, so those are the areas where I would focus if I were in your shoes today. (Which I think I'm repeating myself at this point.  Sorry!  LOL)

 

Corals require a minimum of 0.03 ppm of phosphate in order to support photosynthesis — more if there are other requirements such as tissue production, wound healing, light acclamation, etc.  

 

Nitrate levels are much less crucial...5-10 ppm is plenty, but mor or less will do.  Just not zero during the maturation phase.

[Daniel91]

I agree with above. It’s been sorted - nutrients are now at manageable levels per my first post and I have used the treatment as a final measure.

[Daniel91]

@mcarroll - I am only noticing die-off on the monti and digi on the left.

After treatment, this is what it looks like - 

 

 

Plenty of die-off but I am also seeing steady growth. I am hoping that regular husbandry and no swings in parameters will be enough to have it recover.

 

Edit: Sorry for the extreme blue pic, I don’t even run blues that heavy but my camera is not the best.

[mcarroll]

Er... I guess it wasn't stated explicitly that your nutrient levels were not to blame in this case.  

 

Cyano grows where nutrient levels are zero or just out of whack...your dissolved levels are right-on for healthy algae (green hair, coraline) and coral growth.  Sounds like your corals overall were doing well too...confirmation.

 

Bacterial decay (eg in your dead coral skeleton) creates a competition for macronutrients (N and P usually all go to the bacteria) that heavily favors cyano, which has access to photosynthesis for C and can use different N and P sources fir growth...and which competes for the rest if its nutriens differently than algae...more like bacteria.

 

It was purely the coral die off for your case.  The cyanobacteria was consuming the bacterial residues. 

 

I also failed to notice you had cut back (minimized) feedings...that is contrary to your goal of growing healthy algae AND corals.  You should not be overfeeding, but I would recommend keeping your fish very fat for the benefit of your healthy algae and your corals.

 

Follow through with the directions if you have already treated (sounds like it, I guess I missed "the drop"), but I would not be surprised to see the cyanobacteria return on these coral colonies.  

 

With the space on your coral skeletons now unoccupied and internal tissue still decomposing, your cyano may even be replaced by green hair algae (or worse) which is always harder to deal with than cyano.

 

In my experience, as long as the tank remained healthy and stable, and if allowed to, coraline algae would replace the cyano naturally once the cyano was done with its part of the process.  Hopefully the treatment is not too much of a setback for the natural progression to coraline algae.

[seabass]

My personal speculation about cyano is that it has little to do with nutrient levels, and much to do with dead and/or dissolved organics.  Feeding can be a contributor as can flow/filtration and maintenance.

[Daniel91]

Cross your fingers for a fast recovery and that cyano stays away - 

 

Thanks for all the helpful feedback!