Dinos/diatoms

[scrappy34]

I'm currently battling dinos and I'm trying to figure if there's anything else I can do.

 

My current strategy:

- increased flow

- installed an IM UV light in my overflow

- I'm using activated carbon and purigen in my overflow

- no water changes

 

I have a HOB skimmer, so I'm worried about using chemi-clean and having my skimmer flood on my carpet after treatment. Any ideas? Or something I can do different to beat this? 

 

[seabass]

Almost looks more like diatoms.

 

@Clown79 has reported to have successfully battled dinos by dosing phytoplankton.  Do you currently have a pod population?  Chemiclean isn't an effective treatment for either dinos or diatoms.

[scrappy34]

Just now, seabass said:

Almost looks more like diatoms.

 

@Clown79 has reported to have successfully battled dinos by dosing phytoplankton.  Do you currently have a pod population?

 

Does diatoms disappear at night and slowly reappear during the day? Also, there are a couple of very tiny bubbles growing in the red/brown slime

 

I have a few pods but most are gone, I added some like 3 months ago but I barely see any now. 

 

 

[ReeferBray]

Not dinos buddy like you explained sounds like cyanobacteria 

[scrappy34]

Just now, ReeferBray said:

Not dinos buddy like you explained sounds like cyanobacteria 

 

hmm I'm getting all kinds of identifications, on facebook I had like 10 people say it was dinos. Ive beat cyano before using phosguard and purigen. 

[seabass]

46 minutes ago, scrappy34 said:

there are a couple of very tiny bubbles growing in the red/brown slime

Yeah, I agree with @ReeferBray, this description along with the picture likely indicates cyanobacteria.  Cyano is typically an organics problem.

 

More flow can sometimes help as it tends to keep organics in suspension longer, allowing your filtration to better remove it.  Maintenance (sand bed maintenance, water changes, detritus removal, etc.) will definitely help.

 

Nutrients can play a part in this.  Usually nutrient levels start on the higher side; however, after the bloom, test kits show normal to low levels due to the uptake of nutrients by the bloom.  Low nutrients can be as much or more of an issue than high nutrient levels.  In this case, I wouldn't obsess with nutrient levels until after the bloom has been dealt with.

 

Even though Chemiclean can be an effective tool, it isn't required to get rid of cyano.  Typically it's an organics, maintenance, and/or bacterial imbalance.

[scrappy34]

17 minutes ago, seabass said:

Yeah, I agree with @ReeferBray, this description along with the picture likely indicates cyanobacteria.  Cyano is typically an organics problem.

 

More flow can sometimes help as it tends to keep organics in suspension longer, allowing your filtration to better remove it.  Maintenance (sand bed maintenance, water changes, detritus removal, etc.) will definitely help.

  

Nutrients can play a part in this.  Usually nutrient levels start on the higher side; however, after the bloom, test kits show normal to low levels due to the uptake of nutrients by the bloom.  Low nutrients can be as much or more of an issue than high nutrient levels.  In this case, I wouldn't obsess with nutrient levels until after the bloom has been dealt with.

  

Even though Chemiclean can be an effective tool, it isn't required to get rid of cyano.  Typically it's an organics, maintenance, and/or bacterial imbalance.

 

interesting, cyano is actually good news to me. I beat it before using phosguard and multiple water changes but it definitely wasn't this bad last time. 

 

 

[Clown79]

It's hard to say exactly what it is visually. The sand bed looks pretty dirty, is it vacuumed regularly?

 

Dino's need to be identified under microscope for proper treatment. Even a cheap toy microscope works.

 

Bubbles and stringy algae often is dino's. But what kind of dino's, depends on best treatment.

 

Dino's often come out of dormant state when there is a lack of nutrients, particularly phosphates and a lack of diversity in micro organisms like pods.

 

Pods are their #1 competitors.

 

If its dino, the worst thing for it is chemi clean, amino's, peroxide, phosphate removers, and waterchanges.

 

Proper identification is important, because dino requires the opposite treatment to cyano.

 

Have you tested your nitrates and phosphates?

[NSReefer902]

Following this post as I am having a bit of an issue myself that mimics this.. vaccuuming the sand bed tonight and going to try and suck some of the dark red and brown algae off my rocks ( they are also creating lots of bubbles)

[scrappy34]

9 hours ago, Clown79 said:

It's hard to say exactly what it is visually. The sand bed looks pretty dirty, is it vacuumed regularly?

 

Dino's need to be identified under microscope for proper treatment. Even a cheap toy microscope works.

 

Bubbles and stringy algae often is dino's. But what kind of dino's, depends on best treatment.

 

Dino's often come out of dormant state when there is a lack of nutrients, particularly phosphates and a lack of diversity in micro organisms like pods.

 

Pods are their #1 competitors.

 

If its dino, the worst thing for it is chemi clean, amino's, peroxide, phosphate removers, and waterchanges.

 

Proper identification is important, because dino requires the opposite treatment to cyano.

 

Have you tested your nitrates and phosphates?

 

Before this outbreak of cyano/dino/diatoms my sand bed was pretty clean. 

 

My nitrates are higher than usual, but I've been lazy recently so I haven't checked for a little while. Just tested at 40 or more (hard to distinguish the color). I'm usually around 10-20. I just did a 25% water change because I need to bring that down. 

[FISHnChix]

How new is this tank? Imo its definitely not dinos😎.. looks like diatoms from a new tank and lack of flow down low... could be a little cyano mixed in also from lack of flow...

[mcarroll]

5 hours ago, scrappy34 said:

 

Before this outbreak of cyano/dino/diatoms my sand bed was pretty clean. 

 

My nitrates are higher than usual, but I've been lazy recently so I haven't checked for a little while. Just tested at 40 or more (hard to distinguish the color). I'm usually around 10-20. I just did a 25% water change because I need to bring that down. 

Unless you know another explanation like overfeeding, nitrate levels that high usually indicate that phospates have run out.  No phophates means lots of growth, reproduction and healing stop or begin to disfunction.  This lack of P causes a commensurate drop in nitrate demand, allowing the buildup you're seeing to happen.  

 

If this is your case (need to test phosphates ASAP), then the correct answer is to raise phosphate levels to ≥0.10 ppm.  

 

Maintain them at that level until dino's subside and you get normal algae growing like hair algae and coraline algae.

 

Dino Test

Until you get a microscope – which I highly recommend – try this test for dino's:  Take a sample of the algae with some tank water in a vial.  Shake vigorously until the sample is homogenized.  Leave the vial under your lights for up to an hour or more.  If the algae regroups into a mass, then it's some form of dino.  Diatoms and cyano won't do that.

[Clown79]

56 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Unless you know another explanation like overfeeding, nitrate levels that high usually indicate that phospates have run out.  No phophates means lots of growth, reproduction and healing stop or begin to disfunction.  This lack of P causes a commensurate drop in nitrate demand, allowing the buildup you're seeing to happen.  

 

If this is your case (need to test phosphates ASAP), then the correct answer is to raise phosphate levels to ≥0.10 ppm.  

 

Maintain them at that level until dino's subside and you get normal algae growing like hair algae and coraline algae.

 

Dino Test

Until you get a microscope – which I highly recommend – try this test for dino's:  Take a sample of the algae with some tank water in a vial.  Shake vigorously until the sample is homogenized.  Leave the vial under your lights for up to an hour or more.  If the algae regroups into a mass, then it's some form of dino.  Diatoms and cyano won't do that.

That dino test works really well in a pinch.

 

The one thing I noticed when I realized I had an issue was that after a waterchange I had all this gunk floating to the surface of the water. Never saw that occur before.

 

Looked online and used the water test before I got a microscope. It wasn't gunk, it was the dino's grouping on the surface. 

[mcarroll]

19 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

That dino test works really well in a pinch.

 

The one thing I noticed when I realized I had an issue was that after a waterchange I had all this gunk floating to the surface of the water. Never saw that occur before.

 

Looked online and used the water test before I got a microscope. It wasn't gunk, it was the dino's grouping on the surface. 

Good powers of observation!  I haven't heard that "surface gunk" symptom reported before, but it makes all kinds of sense.  Which type of dino was that?

[Clown79]

1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

Good powers of observation!  I haven't heard that "surface gunk" symptom reported before, but it makes all kinds of sense.  Which type of dino was that?

Osteo. 

 

I observed it about 2 waterchanges before I started seeing the stringy algae on my rocks and glass, it was definitely a first symptom.

 

It was stringy with bubbles that floated to the surface after the waterchange was done, as soon as I turned the pumps back on. It appeared to the naked eye to have no colour so I didn't immediately think of dino. 

 

2 weeks later, corals were closed, and I started seeing the same stringy algae on rocks and corals. But on these surfaces, it had colour.

Did the water test, then got a microscope to identify the species.

[CodyReedReefs]

How did you combat the dinos? @Clown79

[Clown79]

The first thing was I identified i did have dino's and the species.

 

I stopped waterchanges for a month, sucked them out daily recycling the removed water, ran carbon, seeded my tank with 24oz of pods, 8oz of rotifers, dosed phyto. Made a pod condo.

 

Got my phosphate levels to 0.08 before they started dying off.

 

I documented every step I took in my journal, it's quite detailed.

[scrappy34]

This might be a dumb question, but is it possible a skimmer not working properly could cause this bacteria buildup? 

 

I just cleaned my skimmer (Aquamaxx HOB 1.5) and it is working 100x better than what it was beforehand. It hasn't produced this much since the day I installed it.

[mcarroll]

Not really.

[NSReefer902]

@Clown79 when you say it seemed stringy, do you mean like skinny and kinda floating? Or almost like a sheet that if scraped could hang onto a rock and flap around? I tried vacuuming the sand and it seemed to just bunch it up in the sand and was almost like a blanket in some spots. I also see lots of air bubbles off the stuff on the rocks. Does this sound like Dino’s? My wife’s a vet and is going to take a sample to work and see if it is or not under her microscope there. Just want to have an idea tonight tho so I can figure out a game plan.

[seabass]

25 minutes ago, scrappy34 said:

This might be a dumb question, but is it possible a skimmer not working properly could cause this bacteria buildup?

If by bacteria you mean cyano, then it might be a contributing factor.  A protein skimmer removes dissolved organics from the water, and organics can contribute to cyano.

[seabass]

@NSReefer902, dinos tend to almost be clear by when the lights come on and get worse as the light cycle progresses.  While cyano can act similar, it normally doesn't clear completely at night.  Cyano is often (but not always) reddish, while dinos tend to be more brown/tan.  Cyano can also contain bubbles due to it being photosynthetic.

 

Dinos often look something like this:

[NSReefer902]

12 minutes ago, seabass said:

@NSReefer902, dinos tend to almost be clear by when the lights come on and get worse as the light cycle progresses.  While cyano can act similar, it normally doesn't clear completely at night.  Cyano is often (but not always) reddish, while dinos tend to be more brown/tan.  Cyano can also contain bubbles due to it being photosynthetic.

 

Dinos often looks something like this:

Thank you @seabass the picture looks like I might be in trouble. Although it’s not like the picture here’s what I have. You can see the brown strings off my closed up zoa and my rock. On the other one you can see a red carpet like algae with bubbles 😞

Edited August 9, 2019 by NSReefer902
Made a mistake

[seabass]

1 hour ago, NSReefer902 said:

the picture looks like I might be in trouble.

Not sure.   Does it clear during lights out?  It doesn't look that terribly awful.

[Clown79]

1 hour ago, NSReefer902 said:

Thank you @seabass the picture looks like I might be in trouble. Although it’s not like the picture here’s what I have. You can see the brown strings off my closed up zoa and my rock. On the other one you can see a red carpet like algae with bubbles 😞

Kinda looks like dino but can't say 100% 

 

Do the jar test. It's a good quick test before identifying it under microscope

 

 http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2531708