Crazy Banggai Cardinals!! May be mating hahaha

[KimmyB75]

Well I THOUGHT both my Cardinals were females even though it is really hard to tell gender with them since the vents are really only visible when their bellies are full of food. Even then it is a tough call. Yesterday I noticed the largest one being a bit of a dominant butt face to the Frostbite clown. Today, it is going bonkers so to speak ROFL! It's circling the other Cardinal with a gaping mouth and keeps rubbing its lowers half of its body in a spasm/seizure (lol) on the other like dancing for the other. It's definitely a sight! I think I am going to actually take a video clip of it cause it's actually comical. I know they are mouth boarders and unless I separate them once it gets close to time for hatching, none would survive. I love this hobby more and more each day!! 

[Pjanssen]

check out @seabass thread

 

[seabass]

It's certainly possible to raise them if you wish.  Once you notice that the male is not eating, you know he's holding eggs.

[KimmyB75]

 

2 hours ago, seabass said:

It's certainly possible to raise them if you wish.  Once you notice that the male is not eating, you know he's holding eggs.

I'm actually considering raising them. At least giving it a good shot! I would have to start now trying to get everything ready to go. I was doing a bit of reading earlier on an article written by a man who has been raising them since 1996. It is really fascinating. The article does not seem to be complete, at least not the parts that I had found. He was suspecting that t

I was reading through your

hey tend to be seasonal breeders, but is unsure as to what triggers spawning. His started usually between June/July and would end around Sept. The article went on to sat that if he did not separate the two between batches of babies, the male would abort the eggs and spit them out due to needing food more.

 

I have no idea what I would do with a bunch of babies, but I would love them lol!

 

As I was reading through your thread, I was paying attention to what you fed your Cardinals. My cardinals eat anything I feed including the flake food that has pieces of freeze dried blood worm. They prefer the omnivore pellets which are so tiny mainly for the juvenile fire goby to be able to eat and they go bonkers when I shred a raw shrimp. Wonder if I could start the babies off on a combo of the cyclopease and the super tiny omnivore pellet?

Since I am still home with a work related injury for a couple more months, This would definitely keep me occupied! I would have to move Papa Cardinal to an in tank net hatchery a few days before I suspect him to puke out babies since I am running a 40B with an HOB filter. I would hate to see babies get sucked up and die or move him to the nursery by himself till he spits them out. 

[KimmyB75]

Ok, I think I may start this undertaking. The babies are just to darn adorable!!  I am going to keep track of the dates so I know when to start expect new babies.  I need to do as simple of a system as possible and inexpensively as possible with the majority of the materials I already have on hand. I am sure I can use a HOB filter on my old 29g tank for the nursery. I will need to purchase a filter for this. Since it is for a nursery/grow out tank, what size/flow rate should I look for to be adequate for such tiny babies? I think leaving it as a bare bottom would be best with a piece of LR for Bio-filtration. Since the piece of rock I have is dry dead rock, can I just start the cycle by taking a small piece of rubble rock from my current running tank to start the cycle process? That would save from buying the bottles of bacteria to jump start cycling. (Bit of a tight budget for the next 3 weeks due to hubby having an emergency root canal from breaking a tooth at work the other day) I wish these little buggers could have waited at least 2 to 3 more weeks before deciding to get their groove on lol.

[seabass]

11 minutes ago, KimmyB75 said:

My cardinals eat anything I feed including the flake food that has pieces of freeze dried blood worm.

Lucky you.  I read where some will eat a wider variety of food, but mine will spit out anything except frozen mysis.

 

12 minutes ago, KimmyB75 said:

Wonder if I could start the babies off on a combo of the cyclopease and the super tiny omnivore pellet?

I doubt it.  They are surprisingly picky for an animal which has never tasted any food.  They will eat freshly hatched brine shrimp.  However, I've also found that the will also eat freshly decapsulated brine shrimp eggs, which actually don't have to be hatched.  Then they can be transitioned to cyclops, and then to shaved mysis.

 

13 minutes ago, KimmyB75 said:

I would have to move Papa Cardinal to an in tank net hatchery a few days before I suspect him to puke out babies since I am running a 40B with an HOB filter. I would hate to see babies get sucked up and die or move him to the nursery by himself till he spits them out.

The first time I moved the father to the nursery until he released the babies.  That worked out pretty well.  Actually, he still had a few in his mouth when I returned him.

[seabass]

12 minutes ago, KimmyB75 said:

Since it is for a nursery/grow out tank, what size/flow rate should I look for to be adequate for such tiny babies?

I've been keeping the flow pretty low.  I'm using a 100gph filter and pulling up the suction tube (to further reduce the flow).  Slowly, I've been increasing the flow as they get bigger and stronger.

 

12 minutes ago, KimmyB75 said:

Since the piece of rock I have is dry dead rock, can I just start the cycle by taking a small piece of rubble rock from my current running tank to start the cycle process?

I would beef it up as much as possible by following this fishless cycling guide: http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/fishless-cycling

 

12 minutes ago, KimmyB75 said:

I wish these little buggers could have waited at least 2 to 3 more weeks before deciding to get their groove on lol.

Yeah, their timing hasn't been ideal for me either.

[KimmyB75]

Thank you a ton! I may hit you up again for a few more tips along the way. This definitely isn't the best of timing for me to be grandma to fish, but I guess on the same token children didn't come with instruction manuals either and both my kids have managed to somehow survive lol. All I can do I try and hope I can do what is best for them. I would rather try and fail than to do nothing at all and have unnecessary casualties.  

[Clown79]

Very interesting thread. Please keep us posted!

[KimmyB75]

Well update on the crazy couple! (now renamed from Laverne & Shirley to Vern & Shirley lol) As of yesterday morning we have a big mouth full of red egg sack. I can see him shift the eggs almost spitting them out and sucking them back in. It's pretty neat. Went to get the tank yesterday to get it going and they are out till Monday so I am having to process everything separately till i can transfer it into the new nursery when it comes in. I ordered a 20 long for them.

[seabass]

Can you get a pic of the eggs in his mouth?

 

1 minute ago, KimmyB75 said:

Went to get the tank yesterday to get it going and they are out till Monday

Well, you might have about 4 weeks before he releases the babies.  In the meantime:

• Work hard on beefing up the rock's biofilter which will go into the nursery.
• Order some brine shrimp eggs.

[KimmyB75]

Started that part yesterday. I will probably start a journal on it. I an actually doing an DIY AIO with acrylic I got from Lowes yesteray. The plan is to use 3 inches of the side of the tank. Chamber 1 will have 3 rows of small holes at the top which will also act as surface skimming for water to flow into and through a pre filter sponge and maybe filter floss behild that to prevent any super tiny ones from getting any further through. Water will go down and under baffle 1 into chamber 2 which will have rock chunks propped up with shelves made from egg crate to help with biofiltration since it will be bare bottom inside the tank with the exception of some fake pin cushion (wounder if I can use live since this will eventually be my QT?) . water then will flow through the top part of the 2nd baffle to the 3rd chamber to be returned to tank.   Oh found a paint I plan to use on the outside too. It's Krylon Frosted Glass. Going to use it on the sides and back. If I can still see through it on just one coat and its just dim, I will add more coats to those areas and just do 1 on the front. If not, I will window tint the front and frost the sides and back. Did you light your nursery? I was thinking to leave it out for now till they were a few months old then just go with a basic LED Walmart light for freshwater fish just to ease them into lighting.

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by KimmyB75
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[seabass]

1 hour ago, KimmyB75 said:

it will be bare bottom inside the tank with the exception of some fake pin cushion (wounder if I can use live since this will eventually be my QT?

They will be fine without an urchin (real or fake).  Hiding amongst the spines is a protective instinct.  However, without predators, it's totally optional (my two month olds never used my fake anemone, although the other two batches did).

 

A pin cushion urchin's spines are too close to each other.  I wouldn't recommend getting one for this tank.

 

2 hours ago, KimmyB75 said:

If not, I will window tint the front and frost the sides and back. Did you light your nursery?

I'm not sure if tint or frost is really necessary.  I did it primarily to block out the light from a couple of phyto cultures I have growing under their stand (lit 24/7).  You'll probably want to keep the front visible.  I didn't light the nursery, but I have a lot of light spilling from other tanks, so they definitely had some light.  If there is no light, I'd probably just get PAR30 aquarium bulb and mount it up high.

[KimmyB75]

4 hours ago, seabass said:

Can you get a pic of the eggs in his mouth?

 

Well, you might have about 4 weeks before he releases the babies.  In the meantime:

• Work hard on beefing up the rock's biofilter which will go into the nursery.
• Order some brine shrimp eggs.

I will see if I can get the pick. He is pretty fast lol.