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Elizabeth94

Liz's Waterbox 70.3

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Elizabeth94

Same link you posted. Its the 100gpd for $224.99. The first row if their chart is wrong I think.  Because the second row shows the “100gpd.”

 

 

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ninjamyst
7 hours ago, Elizabeth94 said:

Takes 30mins to make 5gals of rodi water. I didn’t measure the waste water but its certainly a steady flow XD.

 

My tds is actually lower than I thought. If I wait a minute the input drops between 4-10tds. Output is always 0. 

 

Is it possible to have low tds from the town or is my sensor not right? I wonder if the water gets filtered faster bc of the low tds input? Gosh idk. 

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Ahhh...I believe that's the TDS AFTER it goes through your RO membrane and before it goes to the DI canister, which makes a lot more sense.  Your RO membrane is suppose to remove most of the TDS and the DI canister removes the final 5-10.  If you get a handheld TDS meter and measure your tap water, it should be in the hundreds.  30 mins to make 5 gallons of RODI is really really nice.  It takes me close to 2 hours....hahah.  I guess that's the perk of higher PSI.

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Elizabeth94

OH that would make sense! I was thinking to myself “dang, how lucky am I to already have low tds.” Too good to be true. So used to buying my water from the lfs. But there will be no more back breaking lugging around 7, 5gal jugs from the trunk to the house. 

 

I am surprised at how fast it is. Hopefully nothing is broken XD 

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mcarroll
13 hours ago, mcarroll said:

Can you link the specific system on BRS's website?

 

I'm not seeing 100GPD on their comparison chart here, only 75 and 150GPD:(see bottom)

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/4-stage-value-plus-ro-di-system-bulk-reef-supply.html

11 hours ago, Elizabeth94 said:

Same link you posted. Its the 100gpd for $224.99. The first row if their chart is wrong I think.  Because the second row shows the “100gpd.”

Ok...just wanted you to make sure I was looking at the right thing! 😉 

 

As another post mentioned and the BRS link confirms, you should be watching your production rate and your waste rate....you should get one unit of production water for every three units of waste.  Also, if you are measuring TDS from the tap and from the membrane, you should measure a 98% drop in TDS.

 

Increasing PSI on the membrane could increase performance but make sure you have the flow restrictor in place.  (The restrictor should be dictating that 3:1 waste ratio noted above.)

 

Have you measured your actual production rates of waste and product water?  What's the GPH or GPD of both?

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Elizabeth94

Ill have to rig something up to see what my ratio is. 

 

 I hope its right because I'm not exactly sure how to adjust the unit. Thanks a lot for the help! 

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Krish87
On 7/30/2019 at 10:37 AM, Elizabeth94 said:

Hello everyone! I have been out of the hobby for a few years after going to college and I am getting the urge again. I have only had three other reef tanks but my last tank, a fusion 20, was cut WAY short due to college. I just placed my order with Waterbox for their 70.3 system. I don't have a set plan on the stocking, however I have recently fallen involve with some softy/lps tanks through my searches. I want this tank to mature and be fairly easy to maintain so I am not sure I want much sps. I have an obsession with acans and rock flower nems right now and I am sure I will invest a lot in them. 

 

Equipment:

 

Tank: Waterbox 70.3/ 68gal total volume

Return: Vectra S2/ Max 1400gph

Lighting: ATI 36" 6 bulb fixture 

Flow: Max Gyre xf330

Skimmer: Nyos Quantum 120

ATO: XP Aqua Duetto 

 

This will be the largest system I have had so I am hoping the extra water volume will be easier since I plan on light stocking. The white version of the tank is backordered so it will be a slow build. Thank you for taking the time to read this and I am sorry that it will be a little bit before we get this thing rolling. Once the tank arrives I plan to get it running asap.

Dear Liz, I have a question. When I doing some reading over the systems that I am considering if/when I upgrade (specifically the Reef 70.2 system), the recommended flow states 700gph. I see that you have 1400 gph return pump. Can you provide some insight on that decision? Since you are now having first hand experience with the system, it will be good to know your thoughts behind this decision.

 

Thanks you 🙂

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Elizabeth94
20 minutes ago, Krish87 said:

Dear Liz, I have a question. When I doing some reading over the systems that I am considering if/when I upgrade (specifically the Reef 70.2 system), the recommended flow states 700gph. I see that you have 1400 gph return pump. Can you provide some insight on that decision? Since you are now having first hand experience with the system, it will be good to know your thoughts behind this decision.

 

Thanks you 🙂

 

Hello!

 

 I chose this pump for several reasons. I wanted this brand because it is a higher quality pump and I have always had good luck with Ecotech products. It can be used with a battery backup and the flow  can be adjusted. It is possible that down the line I might plumb in some equipment off the return line. This leaves me with a little "wiggle" room for any future upgrades to the system. There were a couple other pumps I was looking into that would have been just fine for a fraction of the cost. I might go for one of them as a backup incase something happens and I need it. Just make sure you check the pumps flow with head pressure and you'll be good to go!

 

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mcarroll
On 8/12/2019 at 10:00 AM, Elizabeth94 said:

Ill have to rig something up to see what my ratio is. 

 

 I hope its right because I'm not exactly sure how to adjust the unit. Thanks a lot for the help! 

I just use two 1 Cup-size graduated measuring cups - one to catch waste, the other to catch product.  Use both simultaneously until there's enough for you to judge the 3:1 ratio.  I usually wait for 10 mL of product to make it simple.  As long as you also have 30 mL of waste in that time, you're fine.

 

I also plumbed a second product water outlet with a shutoff valve at the same utility sink where the waste water line runs out to make sampling easy.

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Elizabeth94

Just wanted to time stamp here the day my little coral frag tank got wet. I have been cycling my dry rock a tub for a while so I transferred some into the 7gal.  Seeing that the display is still backordered at least I have this one to keep me busy.

 

I took advice from @mcarroll and instead of making this quarantine/frag tank bare, its really going to be a full nano set up. Im actually more excited about it now and so is the hubby. We plan to have one small fish in there and possibly RFAs. 

 

Should I keep it bare-bottom for ease of cleaning? 

 

Im also trying out the IM Aqua Gadget Desktop Wavelink for flow. 

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Elizabeth94

So I have been looking into live rock from KP Aquatics and might order some. It looks so beautiful.

 

How much should I get? The display is technically 44gals. I wonder if the rock is “water logged” when it is weighed and I should add another 10lbs. But im thinking of ordering 45lbs and just seeding the 7gal. 

 

Called Waterbox, the display and stand should be in my house the second week of September! Still haven’t 100% committed myself to the Gyres. Either Gyres, 2xMp10s, or two AI Neros (worried about the magnet and them being new). I have always used Mps but the gyres are tempting. 

 

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mcarroll
On 8/12/2019 at 1:11 PM, Krish87 said:

the recommended flow states 700gph. I see that you have 1400 gph return pump. Can you provide some insight on that decision?

I don't know about the recommendation....where did you see that on the web site? 

 

My guess is that they've recommended a 700 GPH pump, not 700 GPH of flow.  

 

I know that @Elizabeth94 listed some specific reasons she had for selecting the pump she did.

 

If it helps, here's what I can tell you in general on selecting a return pump for this tank...with examples.

 

They do say the "70.8" model has a 43.8 gallon display....so we'll round up to 44 gallons for discussion.

 

Ordinarily you'd calculate ideal flow based on the display volume.  

 

Ideal flow for a typical sump is usually 2-4X the display volume and that's fine to keep the sump, skimmer, etc fed.

 

44 * 4 = 176 GPH

 

Round that up to 200 GPH for easier math.  (2X would be about 100 GPH...still totally fine for this size tank.)

 

Once you have your ideal target flow in mind, then you have to consider your plumbing.

 

Total plumbing length and plumbing diameter have the biggest impact on flow.

 

Here's what they show for this tank's plumbing kit:

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This contraption is pretty short, and looks to be plumbed with something close to 1" (DN25 = 25mm = .98 inches?), which for drain will comfortably give you up to 300 GPH.....up to 600 GPH with noise. (Leaving thebackup drain as backup.)

 

That setup should not impact return flow in that GPH range significantly. 

 

Assuming their spray-bar/outlets are free-flowing, then friction from this return setup should add only about +0.1 feet of head pressure.....almost nothing:

(from http://www.freecalc.com/fric.htm)

Liquid Friction Pressure Loss

Pressure Loss (psi):  0.02   Head Loss (ft):  0.1
Line Number:   
Date:  8/22/2019
Nominal Pipe Size:  1
Pipe Schedule:  SCH 40 
Flow Rate (gpm):  3.33
Viscosity (cP):  1
Specific Gravity (water=1):  1.025
Temperature (F):  79
Pipe Roughness (ft):  0.000016
Actual Pipe ID (in.):  1.049
Fluid Velocity (ft/sec):  1.24
Reynolds Number:  10290
Flow Region:  Turbulent
Friction Factor:  0.031
Overall K:  2.19
Piping Length (ft):   6 Ball :  1

 

You would add this to the system's height or the plumbing's total length (whichever is longer) and compare this info to the flow curve provided by your pump manufacturer. 

 

Knowing the total height should allow you to read what flow they say you'd get with your plumbing.

 

If we take the Vectra S2 as the pump (72 watts, $300), we would use their curve:

image.png.4dc402e9baf842c65fb0cdbeae10704e.png

At 6 feet, my eyeball says that pump should be around 700 GPH of actual flow...enough to run the sump on a 150+ gallon tank.

 

700 GPH is way over our ideal for a 40 gallon display and will generate a lot more friction than 200 GPH, so we should recalculate to see what impact that has on flow:

Pressure Loss (psi):  0.22   Head Loss (ft):  0.5
Line Number:   
Date:  8/22/2019
Nominal Pipe Size:  1
Pipe Schedule:  SCH 40 
Flow Rate (gpm):  12
Viscosity (cP):  1
Specific Gravity (water=1):  1.025
Temperature (F):  79
Pipe Roughness (ft):  0.000016
Actual Pipe ID (in.):  1.049
Fluid Velocity (ft/sec):  4.46
Reynolds Number:  37083
Flow Region:  Turbulent
Friction Factor:  0.023
Overall K:  1.64

 

+0.5 ft of head pressure - five times more than 200 GPH - about 7 feet of total head pressure. 

 

Taking head pressure up to 7 feet probably only makes a difference of -100 GPH to flow in this case....making about 600 GPH of actual flow. 

 

600 GPH is still overkill by about double or triple compared to our ideal.

 

The spraybar/outlets on the plumbing kit may be the bigger question at the increased flow rate....if it was designed for 200-300 GPH (ask Waterbox) then it'll definitely throttle the pump more than what we're calculating here.

 

If you pre-calculate the flow requirements like this you can simply select the best pump that will deliver 200 GPH. 

 

(In reality with a simple plumbing setup like this, the friction loss calculations are extra....with most pumps you could just go straight by the flow curves and your plumbing height to predict the pump's actual flow rate and make a good selection.)

 

One good example selection that would hit 200+ GPH at 7 feet would be the Quiet One 2200:

image.png.57c7bcad51ced95a04a9db4c6a91d564.png

...a very reliable, totally silent return pump that will do the job for 38 watts and about $50

 

You can get the same pump design from Sicce if you prefer the Italian make, it's $80-90...and still just 38 watts😉 

 

For another $30-90 you can add a 12-volt inverter to run it off battery during a power outage...you just have to switch over the pump cables to battery power when needed.  For around $80 you can use a computer UPS instead and that'll automatically do the switching over to battery power for you.

 

(Sicce designed the Quiet One pumps....same as Sicce's Pro series, which Sicce claims as their most-quiet design....at least they did until the Sicce USA website disappeared....the Multi line is the closest thing they show on the Sicce corporate site, but BRS and others still appear to sell the Pro series.)

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mcarroll
7 hours ago, Elizabeth94 said:

Either Gyres, 2xMp10s, or two AI Neros

I had two mp40's on a tank this size (36x118x18) and they were inadequate. 

 

I suspect you'd need 3 or 4 mp10's to do the job on a tank of this size...but Ecotech's flow calculator says the glass is too thick on your tank.

 

If you're serious about wanting SOFT flow, then the two mp40's might be OK...or maybe even pretty good.  (Ecotech says one mp40 could do it....but two pumps or more is always better.)

 

I can't speak directly to the other choices you mentioned.  

 

For me in that similar tank, a set of Tunze 6045's combined with basic timers proved to be a much stronger and more flexible solution than the mp40's.  Even for SPS.  <$160 for a pair.  They are adjustable to lower flow, but not controllable.

 

6055's or 6095's would be the comparable models to the 6045 if you had to have controllable pumps.  Those two are approximately in the same price category with the mp10 but waaaay more capable.  (Small size is the mp10's best feature.  Its tiny.)

 

Tunze also offers the 6040 controllable pump, which is a different style of pump from the others mentioned so far...in particular, it has a very small profile...two or three of these should be great for a soft flow tank and they're only $140 each.

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Elizabeth94

Tank is getting delivered tomorrow! Fingers crossed that everything shows up in one piece and that they come early enough so I make it to work. I also got my Vectra and skimmer delivered yesterday. Dang this skimmer is a sexy piece of equipment. 

 

There was a change in plans where I want to set the tank up and I would have to run a 6ft extension cord to power everything. I want this to be as neat/safe as possible when it comes to wiring but I can't go crazy changing things because I rent this house. I might get a separate cabinet to keep the power strips away from the moisture. So build will take a bit longer but I'm not rushing the details. 

 

 

 

 

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Elizabeth94

First impressions of the stand...

 

Instructions are terrible. But thankfully once you get the first few pieces on it makes more sense. The plywood is heavy and has a nice finish. Impressed with the six hinges it comes with. Soft close, and you can fine tune the way each door sits. The fine tuning is super easy and I was able to get the gap between the doors nice and even.  I did it alone, but I imagine those with anything bigger will benefit from two people. 

 

The tank looks like it came in great shape. The sump looks amazing as well. Ill post pics later when I decide which area the tank is going to go. 

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Elizabeth94

Puppers with the tank. 

67DAE20E-5CCD-474B-81FB-56F104413FA2.jpeg

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Thrassian Atoll

Interesting that your interior isn’t black.  

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Elizabeth94
1 hour ago, Thrassian Atoll said:

Interesting that your interior isn’t black.  

 

Mines the “Marine” series. Yours is the “reef” series right? The Marines have a white interior. However, I have been following a guy on youtube with the same tank as mine. His sump is laid out differently. Its even different than on their website. My first baffle runs front to back, his runs side to side. I prefer the way mine is laid out, thankfully. 

 

The guys sump is also shorter. Online the specs say 24”, mine is like 29. Its weird. Im wondering if they made “improvements” and just haven’t listed it on their site. 

 

 

4C58B183-AE55-4030-98EA-22E9593A9089.jpeg

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Thrassian Atoll
33 minutes ago, Elizabeth94 said:

 

Mines the “Marine” series. Yours is the “reef” series right? The Marines have a white interior. However, I have been following a guy on youtube with the same tank as mine. His sump is laid out differently. Its even different than on their website. My first baffle runs front to back, his runs side to side. I prefer the way mine is laid out, thankfully. 

 

The guys sump is also shorter. Online the specs say 24”, mine is like 29. Its weird. Im wondering if they made “improvements” and just haven’t listed it on their site. 

 

 

4C58B183-AE55-4030-98EA-22E9593A9089.jpeg

Yeah, they change stuff around a lot it seems like with plumbing, sumps, interior color.  I guess the interior used to all be white up until a few months ago.

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Elizabeth94

Light is mounted! I think it came out good. Had to keep in mind that the overflow takes up a couple inches from the display. So its important to center the light properly. 

 

So far this is the cleanest looking system I have had. 

 

 

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Ratvan

Very nice. Gorgeous Doberman as well 😍😍

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Elizabeth94

Thank you! Thats Jasper, 9 mths old. Hes the best!

 

 

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Elizabeth94

@Thrassian Atoll

 

Is this how your tank sits on the stand in the front? I understand its supposed to sit flush with the doors. But I am wondering if the from corners have enough support when full. Idk. Just always thought the corners of tanks needed to be supported the most. 

 

If I push it back anymore then the rear corners wouldn't be flush. Just wanted to be sure before I fill this thing haha. 

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Thrassian Atoll

Let me get a photo real quick.

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Thrassian Atoll

Here is mine.  Looks pretty much the same as yours.  Maybe move it back a tiny bit.  CF249CA1-C466-48EB-9ED9-FADB22E8B6B4.thumb.jpeg.dea9da748d1794e52c485ab1aabc201e.jpeg

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Thrassian Atoll
23 hours ago, Elizabeth94 said:

Light is mounted! I think it came out good. Had to keep in mind that the overflow takes up a couple inches from the display. So its important to center the light properly. 

 

So far this is the cleanest looking system I have had. 

 

 

8FF7A80D-4D0C-418D-A4D0-AF41C7ED8EFA.jpeg

Looks great!  

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