New tank with ich advice?

[hoost]

So my 20g tank just finished cycling a few days ago. On Sunday I went and got a pair of clownfish. Monday morning I noticed small white spots on both. Needless to say, i believe it's ich. I didnt QT them (i dont even have a QT tank, but I definitely will in the future), just acclimated and dropped em in. I'm reading about running the tank fallow for 76 days, but my question is what should be my course of action? Is that best with a small tank? I only have a hermit and snail in the tank, no coral yet. Most likely I will have 4-5 total fish, so what would you do??

[DreC80]

How are the fish doing?  I would leave them in the current tank and see if you can get them healthy.  If they both truly have ich and die from it then you will have to go fallow for 76 or so days.  I didn't qt my initial fish either.  Once fish are in the display and healthy, then you'll want to quarantine future additions.

[hoost]

they seem to be doing ok. both active and eating. it's weird, the little white spots seem more pronounced at night time. even if i try to treat them won't all future fish be infected when added to the display?

[Clown79]

32 minutes ago, hoost said:

they seem to be doing ok. both active and eating. it's weird, the little white spots seem more pronounced at night time. even if i try to treat them won't all future fish be infected when added to the display?

Yes. If the tank doesn't go fallow, the parasite is still there. That means the existing clowns can be re-infected and any future additions.

 

You can easily set up a hospital tank, either a small tank with hob and heater or even a bucket and properly treat them for ich.

 

During this time, the tank should go fallow for 8 weeks to get rid of the parasite.

 

Bonus part is, you'll have a qt for future fish already set up.

[Humblefish]

It would be unusual to see Ich on clownfish (they have a very thick slime coat which protects them).

 

However, velvet is more virulent: https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/404078-marine-velvet-fish-disease-information/

 

And clowns are especially susceptible to brook: https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/402151-brooklynella-fish-disease-information/

[hoost]

ugh. got up this morning and both of them have left us. RIP. Ammonia is at .25 and nitrite is 0. Salinity is 35 ppt. What am I missing? 

 

They did seem to be swimming in the flow constantly at the top of the tank which i thought was weird, and then at night were behind the return nozzle. I guess i just did some quick research and assumed it was ich. There were plenty of clowns in the tank where I got my pair at the LFS and none looked really ill, so i feel like im doing something wrong. I think the hermit might be finished too. 😫

 

I don't have a light attached because I was cycling and am not ready to add coral. could that have contributed in some way? Should i just let the tank sit for 8 weeks now? 

 

Man this sure is a testing hobby haha. Thank you guys for your responses/help.

[Clown79]

30 minutes ago, hoost said:

ugh. got up this morning and both of them have left us. RIP. Ammonia is at .25 and nitrite is 0. Salinity is 35 ppt. What am I missing? 

 

They did seem to be swimming in the flow constantly at the top of the tank which i thought was weird, and then at night were behind the return nozzle. I guess i just did some quick research and assumed it was ich. There were plenty of clowns in the tank where I got my pair at the LFS and none looked really ill, so i feel like im doing something wrong. I think the hermit might be finished too. 😫

 

I don't have a light attached because I was cycling and am not ready to add coral. could that have contributed in some way? Should i just let the tank sit for 8 weeks now? 

 

Man this sure is a testing hobby haha. Thank you guys for your responses/help.

Sorry for the loss.

 

Cycling a tank with livestock often leads to death. Ammonia is deadly. It's not advised to cycle with fish, its cruel.

 

If you saw white spots it could have been ich or velvet. Ich is less deadly than velvet.

 

Clowns are less susceptible to ich but not immune to it, so it may have been ich. 

 

If the tank was cycling, their immune system would be weakened enough to prevent them from being able to fight off ich 

 

If it was velvet, without treatment they would not survive. Velvet kills quickly 

[hoost]

it was all zeroed out when i got them, so i figured it would be ok to add clowns. should i let the tank go fallow or wait for ammonia to go back down and try my luck again?

[Melfy77]

21 minutes ago, hoost said:

it was all zeroed out when i got them, so i figured it would be ok to add clowns. should i let the tank go fallow or wait for ammonia to go back down and try my luck again?

I'd say go fallow. Get some corals and cuc if you want to and then wait 72 days to add livestock again. I lost clownfish last month at first I thought it was ich but no it was velvet.

[hoost]

34 minutes ago, Melfy77 said:

I'd say go fallow. Get some corals and cuc if you want to and then wait 72 days to add livestock again. I lost clownfish last month at first I thought it was ich but no it was velvet.

how were you able to tell the difference? This seems like the most logical solution.

[Tamberav]

Velvet it smaller dots, almost powder like. Ich usually doesn't kill that fast and fish swimming in the flow is also a sign of velvet. Honestly sounds like velvet to me. Sometimes disease can kill so fast you won't see disease, it ravages the gills and suffocates the fish. 

 

Fish appearing healthy at the store doesn't mean much. Many stores run lower levels of copper which is enough to suppress disease so you won't see it on the fish in the store, but not enough to cure it. So it won't show until you get the fish in your system. 

 

I would just run fallow 76 days and set up a QT tank. Get it cycled then add your 1st fish in there. Add plenty of hiding spots in the QT tank with PVC and fake plastic plants. The fish has to be in the QT for observation for 4-8 weeks so once you have that running, you can do that while you want for the fallow period to end. Just do not cross contaminate anything with your DT. No shared hoses, buckets, etc. 

[mcarroll]

On 7/10/2019 at 10:46 AM, Clown79 said:

Sorry for the loss.

 

Cycling a tank with livestock often leads to death. Ammonia is deadly. It's not advised to cycle with fish, its cruel.

 

If you saw white spots it could have been ich or velvet. Ich is less deadly than velvet.

 

Clowns are less susceptible to ich but not immune to it, so it may have been ich. 

 

If the tank was cycling, their immune system would be weakened enough to prevent them from being able to fight off ich 

 

If it was velvet, without treatment they would not survive. Velvet kills quickly 

It also could have been sand/detritus/whatever stuck to them and the ammonia(+stress) is what did them in.

 

If the tank was cycled and clear of ammonia, then why was it showing ammonia later?  Two fish aren't gonna generate that much ammonia in just the few hours they were in the tank post-mortum.  (ie. Fine at bed time, RIP in the morning.)

 

No light on the tank means no algae to bloom and protect the animals from the ammonia by using it up either.....something most tanks have at this time (for better and for worse).

 

IMO (until I stand corrected) they were generating that ammonia themselves while alive and the bio-filter was exceeded.  I don't think parasites were involved.  Reported behavior would be consistent for ammonia.

 

 

 

[hoost]

On 7/23/2019 at 12:27 AM, mcarroll said:

It also could have been sand/detritus/whatever stuck to them and the ammonia(+stress) is what did them in.

 

If the tank was cycled and clear of ammonia, then why was it showing ammonia later?  Two fish aren't gonna generate that much ammonia in just the few hours they were in the tank post-mortum.  (ie. Fine at bed time, RIP in the morning.)

 

No light on the tank means no algae to bloom and protect the animals from the ammonia by using it up either.....something most tanks have at this time (for better and for worse).

 

IMO (until I stand corrected) they were generating that ammonia themselves while alive and the bio-filter was exceeded.  I don't think parasites were involved.  Reported behavior would be consistent for ammonia.

 

 

 

I did figure this out and also believe they were showing signs of stress. My salinity was also super high (hydrometer smh) and after correcting that i added new fish and they seem to be doing fantastic. thank you. my apologies, I'm all over the place bc I'm a total noob haha