Its a Sump necessary for 25 gallon coral + clownfish tank?

[Ciber]

Hi! im new to this forum, i've been reading a lot already but i would like to ask something because i didnt found an answer, i already own several tanks but i only have freshwater tanks with ciclids and tetras, i love them but i really really want to have a Clownfish Saltwater aquarium, i've been looking at videos and stuff but for me to have a Sump its going to be very hard, not impossible but hard, i want to ask if i could have maybe a pair of clownfish and some beginner corals (i really dont know anything about corals, not even names for now) and add 2 or 3 bangaii cardinal after the clownfish and corals maybe, all of that without a Sump on my 25 gallon aquarium, i was thinking about using my internal filter wich i used to have on a 40 gallon tetra tank and a hang on back filter made by 55 gallon.

 

I would like to put my tank to cycle as soon as possible, i will buy dead rock to make the process, in the store they told me to put a frozen shrimp behind the sand and let it be for 30 days, dont know if that would work, Thank you so much and sorry for that bunch of questions.

[ReefCap]

Innovative Marine 25 lagoon, Marco rock, RODI water, salt of your choosing (I prefer Red Sea blue bucket), Fritzyme turbo start, Dr. Tim’s ammonia in a bottle, and your set. No sump, beautiful tank, easy cycle that won’t take a month (hopefully) and no rotting shrimp. The benefits of using liquid ammonia is that you can control the amount in the water to an ideal point for the bacteria to colonize and grown (2ppm). 

[Tamberav]

You don't need a sump...sumps don't do anything special but hide equipment.

 

Hob and internal filters are fine but it depends what kind you have?

 

Aquaclears or similar work fine but avoid anything with a biowheel...etc. No sponges. The rock is the filter and the HOB is just a place to put carbon and disposable floss to catch particles. 

[Clown79]

Sumps are not a must, it helps provide larger water volume and hiding equipment.

 

InternL filters can be done but depends on the filter. That takes up real estate in the tank.

A good sized hang on filter would be far better and easier too.

 

I would strongly advise before jumping in, do A LOT of research. There is a lot to know about reef keeping and the more you know the more success you will have.

Otherwise lots of mistakes occur which leads to frustration, loss of livestock, and loss of money.

 

Also, trusting your lfs completely often leads to issues. Too many of them give very bad advice.

[ef4life]

Sump is absolutely not nessesary, but they have benefits. Increased water volume for stability, ability to hide equipment for aesthetics, possible area for large refugium etc.

 

What tank are you going with? An all in one style is imo one of the best setups for beginners and even people that have been in the hobby for years. Areas for filtration built in, hides equipment, options for refugium or skimmers  in back chambers. Media baskets etc. They look very clean aesthetically especially some of the rimless options available today. 

[Ciber]

12 hours ago, ef4life said:

Sump is absolutely not nessesary, but they have benefits. Increased water volume for stability, ability to hide equipment for aesthetics, possible area for large refugium etc.

 

What tank are you going with? An all in one style is imo one of the best setups for beginners and even people that have been in the hobby for years. Areas for filtration built in, hides equipment, options for refugium or skimmers  in back chambers. Media baskets etc. They look very clean aesthetically especially some of the rimless options available today. 

Thank you for your responses, they make me a lot more confident about get into salt water aquariums.

 

 

I've been looking for some options about skimmers and i will use one hang on back skimmer too, as the filter i want to use is just a normal Cascade 500 canister filter and a... actually i dont know wich manafacturer is the hang on back filter, because if i remember correctly i bought it on Ebay for a very low price and just change the filtration equipment.

 

Im going to use a regular tank i made with my father some months ago, i used to have 2 angel fish for breeding but i got a lot bigger acuarium where they are with some discus so i just want to have this one going. I've made a lot of research on regular water care and clownfish care, but honestly i dont know anythib about corals, i will made some research when i start to cycle the tank.

 

12 hours ago, Clown79 said:

Sumps are not a must, it helps provide larger water volume and hiding equipment.

 

InternL filters can be done but depends on the filter. That takes up real estate in the tank.

A good sized hang on filter would be far better and easier too.

 

I would strongly advise before jumping in, do A LOT of research. There is a lot to know about reef keeping and the more you know the more success you will have.

Otherwise lots of mistakes occur which leads to frustration, loss of livestock, and loss of money.

 

Also, trusting your lfs completely often leads to issues. Too many of them give very bad advice.

I had a lot of issues trusting to shops when i start on this hobby with fresh water aquariums, but since i dont know anyone who has a marine tank that's why i ask there.

 

 

Also, want to ask if there's any tip about cycling my tank? Should i do the shrimp thing? I need to have the skimmer on the cycle too?

 

I was planning to go for the rock and sand on the next week, and start cycling the tanks with just the filters.

 

Thank you so much for the help.

[ef4life]

Shrimp will work fine no doubt, I’ve done it. the newest method seems to be dosing ammonia into the tank like dr Tim’s ammonia and dr Tim’s bacteria. Once the tank goes from 2ppm to 0 ammonia in 24hrs it’s cycled. This way has no rotting foods to fuel algae growth early on. 

 

Id say no on running a skimmer for cycle, and imo a 25 might not really need a skimmer. I ran a hob skimmer on my 24g aquapod years ago for a while and ended up removing it. 

[Tamberav]

23 minutes ago, Ciber said:

Thank you for your responses, they make me a lot more confident about get into salt water aquariums.

 

 

I've been looking for some options about skimmers and i will use one hang on back skimmer too, as the filter i want to use is just a normal Cascade 500 canister filter and a... actually i dont know wich manafacturer is the hang on back filter, because if i remember correctly i bought it on Ebay for a very low price and just change the filtration equipment.

 

Im going to use a regular tank i made with my father some months ago, i used to have 2 angel fish for breeding but i got a lot bigger acuarium where they are with some discus so i just want to have this one going. I've made a lot of research on regular water care and clownfish care, but honestly i dont know anythib about corals, i will made some research when i start to cycle the tank.

 

I had a lot of issues trusting to shops when i start on this hobby with fresh water aquariums, but since i dont know anyone who has a marine tank that's why i ask there.

 

 

Also, want to ask if there's any tip about cycling my tank? Should i do the shrimp thing? I need to have the skimmer on the cycle too?

 

I was planning to go for the rock and sand on the next week, and start cycling the tanks with just the filters.

 

Thank you so much for the help.

Canisters need frequent cleanings on the salt side, they can work but are a huge pain in the ass and probably not worth it. Almost no one uses them for that reason. To put it in perspective, I change the floss in my filters twice a week. You don't even need a filter on a salt tank, the live rock is the main filter so the HOB is just to hold media and catch particles with floss, it's not for biological filtration like fresh tanks with sponges and what not. If it was my tank, I would just do 1 HOB filter with disposable floss and carbon and then get powerheads for flow. 

 

A skimmer may not be needed on a nano tank so don't rush out and buy one. Many don't use them. You can decide to add one whenever you want. The TOTM this month is beautiful and has no skimmer. Just floss, carbon, purigen, done. 

 

 

I would not leave a shrimp in there for 30 days, maybe a few days to a week max? Honestly I just do a pinch of fish food but some people use pure ammonia, DON'T use ammonia if you are buying live rock (not dry but LIVE with living organisms on it). 

 

and if you have not be told, I would avoid tap water, you need to buy gallons of distilled and mix with salt-mix or make RODI water. Tap can work for some people but not for most, it depends what is in your water. 

[Ciber]

 

32 minutes ago, ef4life said:

Shrimp will work fine no doubt, I’ve done it. the newest method seems to be dosing ammonia into the tank like dr Tim’s ammonia and dr Tim’s bacteria. Once the tank goes from 2ppm to 0 ammonia in 24hrs it’s cycled. This way has no rotting foods to fuel algae growth early on. 

 

Id say no on running a skimmer for cycle, and imo a 25 might not really need a skimmer. I ran a hob skimmer on my 24g aquapod years ago for a while and ended up removing it. 

I will ask for that  Dr tim's ammonia and bacteria on my local store, if the dont have it then i will try to cycle my tank with phantom feeding.

 

27 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

Canisters need frequent cleanings on the salt side, they can work but are a huge pain in the ass and probably not worth it. I change the floss in my filters twice a week. You don't even need a filter on a salt tank, the live rock is the main filter. If it was my tank, I would just do 1 HOB filter with floss and carbon and then get powerheads for flow. 

 

A skimmer may not be needed on a nano tank so don't rush out and buy one. Many don't use them. You can decide to add one whenever... 

 

I would not leave a shrimp in there for 30 days, maybe a few days to a week max? Honestly I just do a pinch of fish food but some people use pure ammonia, DON'T use ammonia if you are buying live rock (not dry but LIVE with living organisms on it). 

Then i think i would save that canister or use it on my other acuariums, and just go for the HOB one pls some pumps, thank you for the advice. I would buy dry rock also and cycle it.

 

 

 

I seen a video about adding a blue damsel to the acuarium to help it cycle... should i do that if i dont find the bacteria or just phantom feed???

 

[Tamberav]

1 minute ago, Ciber said:

 

I will ask for that  Dr tim's ammonia and bacteria on my local store, if the dont have it then i will try to cycle my tank with phantom feeding.

 

Then i think i would save that canister or use it on my other acuariums, and just go for the HOB one pls some pumps, thank you for the advice. I would buy dry rock also and cycle it.

 

 

 

I seen a video about adding a blue damsel to the acuarium to help it cycle... should i do that if i dont find the bacteria or just phantom feed???

 

I would skip the damsel, it's cruel to the fish and then you have to catch the damsel and return it because they are aggressive when established. Plus the damsel might have parasites so you added those to your tank for a fish you never intended to keep. 

 

All you need is ammonia which rotting fish food produces anyways. 

[Clown79]

28 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

Canisters need frequent cleanings on the salt side, they can work but are a huge pain in the ass and probably not worth it. Almost no one uses them for that reason. To put it in perspective, I change the floss in my filters twice a week. You don't even need a filter on a salt tank, the live rock is the main filter so the HOB is just to hold media and catch particles with floss, it's not for biological filtration like fresh tanks with sponges and what not. If it was my tank, I would just do 1 HOB filter with disposable floss and carbon and then get powerheads for flow. 

 

A skimmer may not be needed on a nano tank so don't rush out and buy one. Many don't use them. You can decide to add one whenever you want. The TOTM this month is beautiful and has no skimmer. Just floss, carbon, purigen, done. 

 

 

I would not leave a shrimp in there for 30 days, maybe a few days to a week max? Honestly I just do a pinch of fish food but some people use pure ammonia, DON'T use ammonia if you are buying live rock (not dry but LIVE with living organisms on it). 

 

and if you have not be told, I would avoid tap water, you need to buy gallons of distilled and mix with salt-mix or make RODI water. Tap can work for some people but not for most, it depends what is in your water. 

^ this. 

 

Running an hob to start will be far easier than a canister. Canisters aren't popular on Sw tanks because of the work involved.

 

Filter floss and carbon are the most commonly used media.

 

You may not need a skimmer, many go skimmerless successfully. 

 

Getting a large hob really helps. You can hide the heater in there and use filter media.

 

Shrimp method is fine but it's a dirtier method. 

If using dry reef rock, the cleanest method is ammonia and bacteria dosing. Dr Tim's line is very popular.

 

If using liverock, you don't need anything to cycle, it will on it's own and most likely not at all if its cured live rock 

 

This forum is filled with tons of good info.

Going through threads, sticky threads, TOTM's, and members journals will give you tons of very much needed advice.

 

There is a lot to know besides cycling.

There is salinity, testing parameters, water chemistry, lighting, flow, filtration, etc etc

 

 

 

 

[Pjanssen]

 to Nano Reef! You've gotten some sage information on cycling and filters for your new tank, but let me just say something about your fish ideas. 2 clownfish and 2-3 cardinals is a pretty big bioload for a Reef tank, especially for a beginner. That being said, if you decide on bangs and cardinals, the cardinals should go in first so the they can establish themselves. Clown are much more territorial and can e aggressive towards other fish.